Where Shall We Hide, M. Dion?

[retiredgrunt45]

Militarily the will is there to finish the fight, but sadly the political will got up and walked away. This is not only happening in the EU, but sadly now also in Canada. Harper is beginning to feel the fire under his rear and if he wants to save his office, he will have no choice but to pull Canada out after the house votes to pull our troops out in 2009. Thanks in whole to the turncoat opposition party leaders Layton and Dion.

It started out as a good intention, but in the end all we will have to show for is a failed mission, because our politicians, lost their nerve and ran away and all the good out troops fought and died for was all in vain. "What a waste"

Thank You Mr Layton and Mr. Dion, for telling our sons and daughters that what they fought and gave their lives for was not worth a hill of beans. After NATO pulls out, the taliban will come back into power and once again brutalize the country. Alkeida will move back in and set up camp. Everything we built will be destroyed, schools, roads, hospitals. Women and children will once again be victimized and the five or so years we spent trying to make a difference will be like it, never happened. Quite a legacy.

Reminds me of another war in southeast Asia that had a similar outcome...

Damned shame, all of it.

 

[kratz]

Ok, I had not followed this thread, but when I read a post of "Where do we hide M. Dion", I ended up asking myself, "when did we get a new MND"? Normally, I watch the news, so I thought I would have seen this. Theoretical quetions such as this, on their own are not so worriesom. Reading a defacto statement though brings up a differnt reaction.

 

[Edward Campbell]

M. Dion is, to be fair, acting responsibly.

He plans to be the next prime minister of Canada and he is telling us what some of his plans and policies will be.  Remember Jean Chrétien in 1993?  He said, during the campaign, that the helicopters for which the government had contracted were “Cadillacs” and, promptly upon being sworn in, cancelled the contract.  M. Dion is doing much the same.  He is nailing his colours to the mast – telling us that he prefers Trudeau's vision of a weak, timorous, greedy, self absorbed Little Canada to the St. Laurent/Pearson/Harper vision of Canada as a leader amongst the responsible middle powers.

The sad fact is that the current (Summer '07) polling indicates that a majority of Canadians shares his view on our place in the world.  Most Canadians appear to want to abandon the poor, war ravaged women and children of Afghanistan so that we can concentrate on the misdeeds of Lindsay Lohan and the hockey playing Stall brothers.

 

[observor 69]

Ref an earlier comment that our soldiers will have died in vain if we withdraw early.
It is the duty of a soldier to obey the orders of his leaders which at the highest level is the government of the day.
Our soldiers are going to Afghanistan and doing their duty. Some have died in battle some have been wounded; they have served with honour.
None have died in vain.

 

[GAP]

Canadians Can't Trust the Conservative Government on Afghanistan
July 27, 2007 Liberal Party of Canada (press release)
Article Link

MONTREAL – The Conservative government’s campaign of dishonesty, secrecy and propaganda continues to

mislead Canadians with confusing and contradictory statements on the question of whether the

Canadian combat mission will come to an end in Afghanistan in 2009, Liberal Defence Critic Denis

Coderre said today.

“For the last month, the Harper government has worked hard to lure Canadians into thinking that the

combat mission will be coming to an end. The Conservatives have not moderated their position. The

only thing that has changed is their political spin,” said Mr. Coderre. “If any of this propaganda

was true the Conservatives would commit unequivocally to Canadians that the combat mission will end

in February 2009. Canadians clearly cannot trust this government.”

Last night on CBC’s The National, Allan Gregg of the Strategic Counsel summed up the Conservatives’

strategy of obfuscation and misleading propaganda, saying it is similar to the strategy used to

mislead Canadians on the Conservatives’ failure to act on the environment: "When they're faced with

something they know they're in political difficulty, such as they are there this issue, they tend to

try to moderate their position so they don't look as extreme... So I don't expect anything

substantively to change, just the messaging."

Mr. Coderre pointed to the Conservatives’ secrecy surrounding documents held by the Department of

National Defence and their evolving statements on Afghanistan over the past several months as

overwhelming evidence that Canadians simply can’t trust them.
More on link

 

[Edward Campbell]

Ref an earlier comment that our soldiers will have died in vain if we withdraw early.
It is the duty of a soldier to obey the orders of his leaders which at the highest level is the government of the day.
Our soldiers are going to Afghanistan and doing their duty. Some have died in battle some have been wounded; they have served with honour.
None have died in vain.

If that was my comment ...

I was thinking along the lines of St. Laurent's idea, quoted here, that, “we must play a role in world affairs in keeping with the ideals and sacrifices of the young men ... [and women, too, in the 21st century] ... who went to war. However great or small that role may be, we must play it creditably. We must act with maturity and consistency, and with a sense of responsibility. For this reason I return in conclusion to the point at which I began. We must act as a united people. By that I mean a people who, through reflection and discussion, have arrived at a common understanding of our interests and our purposes.”

 

[observor 69]

If that was my comment ...

I was thinking along the lines of St. Laurent's idea, quoted here, that, “we must play a role in world affairs in keeping with the ideals and sacrifices of the young men ... [and women, too, in the 21st century] ... who went to war. However great or small that role may be, we must play it creditably. We must act with maturity and consistency, and with a sense of responsibility. For this reason I return in conclusion to the point at which I began. We must act as a united people. By that I mean a people who, through reflection and discussion, have arrived at a common understanding of our interests and our purposes.”

No it wasn't anything you said Mr.Campbell just my growing feeling that the "withdraw and died in vain " theme was beginning to p*** me off."

I haven't read much of/none? of St.Laurent's writing, maybe I should. Got any good sources?

 

[Edward Campbell]

No it wasn't anything you said Mr.Campbell just my growing feeling that the "withdraw and died in vain " theme was beginning to p*** me off."

I haven't read much of/none? of St.Laurent's writing, maybe I should. Got any good sources?

Try this: http://www.amazon.ca/Louis-St-Laurent-Revised-Pickersgill/dp/155041495X/ref=sr_1_3/701-3795740-3647514?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185630500&sr=8-3 or look here: http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/department/history/coldwar_intro-en.asp and here.

St Laurent did not leave memoirs or an exhaustive personal archive.

There is a fair amount in the National Archives but Pickersgill and Roberston remain the best sources.

I think Bothwell was right in saying (in the CPAC piece): "St. Laurent’s virtues are quiet virtues aren’t they? They’re not the flashy virtues. There are no scenes standing out there confronting reporters with a quip or a sneer." and "He’s in some respects a remarkably humble man. We know that behind that modesty is the self-confidence of an individual who understands that he doesn’t need showy, fake publicity."  But, St. Laurent was a brilliant corporate lawyer and firm, decisive leader.  He had a sweeping 'world view' and the skills necessary to impose it on the fledgling External Affairs Department.  he was tough negotiator; he bluffed Eisenhower into accepting Canada's deal for the Saint Lawrence Seaway.  The Americans were annoyed but they remained friendly towards St. Laurent because of that unique combination of vision and modesty.

 

[Hunteroffortune]

First off, Coderre marched in a protest with Hezbollah supporters, enough said about him.

Second, if an election is called before the 2009 pull out date, and the Conservatives win a majority, you have to know that the troops are staying to finish the job.

Third, where are Dion and Layton now that the Taliban have killed hostages? Come on Layton, you go negotiate with the Taliban, and take Dion.

This will actually wake up Canadians who think the Taliban are harmless, that it's not our concern, and shift public opinion towards supporting the mission. The Taliban are their own worse enemies right now. They are showing their true colours and this time, the world is watching! Now all we need is for NATO troops to go in and rescue those poor hostages.