What not to do - No excuse BMQ tips [Merged]

[Buddy336]

From an instructor's point of view: I EXPECT the sheets to be ironed but I don't want to burn myself when I check your iron for water.

 

[Buddy336]

Need to be more articulated... Are you saying they send the dumbest less articulated and less edumacated people to form the best soldiers in the world ?

 

[eugenetswong]

Need to be more articulated... Are you saying they send the dumbest less articulated and less edumacated people to form the best soldiers in the world ?

I wouldn't say that they are the dumbest. They are definitely quite smart.

They aren't the most articulated. They should be more articulated. That could reduce the amount of swearing, and allow them to speak clearly about the various topics. There were many times when I didn't understand them. Also, for some reason, it is common among the soldiers that I met to ask, "Is there any questions?". Until BMQ, I have never heard that, even among foreigners. I found it very distracting.

As for education, there are a lot of soldiers without university/college education, so they definitely aren't the most educated.

As for the best soldiers in the world, I think that they are the best. I was just suggesting how they could improve. Also, please take note of the phrase, "To avoid swearing". This indicates the purpose of being more articulated. In that context, becoming more articulated isn't to compensate for lack of education or stupidity. Okay? Are we all clear now?

 

[xena]

Plus, it's actually the emotional response that is being addressed.  If one is prone to (or has irrationally strong) emotional responses to what other people say, IMHO, you'll have a particularly hard time as a soldier.  Sure, they could be "more articulate", and not swear at all, but that can defeat the purpose of seeing if one has what it takes to "tune out" the crazy stuff, and just get on with what needs to be done.

Again though, I would like to point out that I am not condoning verbal or emotional abuse (because I've seen and heard both happen and wasn't impressed).  I am just saying, that from a soldier's point of view, someone swearing at me does not constitute either.  It's just noise.  Treat the actual swear words as noise, and you'll be okay.

 

[aesop081]

and allow them to speak clearly about the various topics.

I'm sorry that i have to join this little conversation, after all i'm just an uneducated, cursing slimeball  :

As for education, there are a lot of soldiers without university/college education, so they definitely aren't the most educated.

Education and intelligence are 2 fucking different things. I have met university graduates who are the dumbest fucks in the world.

 

[xena]

I have met university graduates who are the dumbest ****s in the world.

+1.  A degree has nothing to do with how smart you are.  It has to do with how long you spent in school.  End of.

 

[Greymatters]

They aren't the most articulated. They should be more articulated.  That could reduce the amount of swearing, and allow them to speak clearly about the various topics.

I don't know what unit you were with, but many of the soldiers in the CF are quite articulate.  Don't judge the entire CF by your brief association with a small segment of its employees.

There were many times when I didn't understand them. Also, for some reason, it is common among the soldiers that I met to ask, "Is there any questions?". Until BMQ, I have never heard that, even among foreigners. I found it very distracting.  

Being such a large country, we actually do have some varied dialects and pronunciations from coast to coast to coast, and even a few people who have a different first language than others, so expect some misuse of words when it comes to plurals.  Proper grammar and enunciation isn't always possible.  Plus, I knew a few instructors who talked that way on purpose as part of their 'old school' image.

As for education, there are a lot of soldiers without university/college education, so they definitely aren't the most educated.  

Uh... like already mentioned, ever hear of 'life experience'?  There are more skills sets out there other than whats available at an academic facility...
Out on a patrol, I'd rather have a guy who used to be a hunting guide from interior BC than an English Major from UofT.  

As for the best soldiers in the world, I think that they are the best. I was just suggesting how they could improve. Also, please take note of the phrase, "To avoid swearing". This indicates the purpose of being more articulated. In that context, becoming more articulated isn't to compensate for lack of education or stupidity. Okay? Are we all clear now?

I think you've got some evaluation/loyalty issues going here - on one hand they're a bunch of inarticulate uneducated unwashed masses, and then on the other hand you say they are the best soldiers in the world?  Which is it gonna be?  

And what's with your comments about the swearing?  Did you actually tell anyone you didnt like it and ask them to stop, or are you just complaining about it here?

 

[armyvern]

You found:

"Is there any questions?"

distracting??

This question is one that you will hear throughout your time in the service ... get ready for it.

It is how we, who pass on orders or info, etc ...

Confirm that our pers took it in ... "learned", "got educated", "understood our drift" so to speak. Isn't that what you want?

If we didn't ask this at each opportune moment (and you have a LOT of them coming) how the heck (Please note that I deleted the word 'hell' that I so wanted to put in there) are we supposed to find out if there's any questions?

Did you give communal answers of "No Sir?" It's quite like the communal answer given to the other question you are about to become quite familiar with - that being, "Is that UNDERSTOOD (or a simple "Understood"?)? To which one says "Yes, Sir." Or perhaps the opposite response if necessary.

 

[adaminc]

I am wondering if his "Is there any questions?" statement pertains to the whole articulation speech in that the question starts with "Is" instead of "Are". I have never heard anyone ask "Is there any questions?" but I have heard "Are there any questions?". If that's not what he meant, then I must wonder if he ever went to school at all, because I never had a class where the teacher/professor did not ask if anyone had any questions, I would say you get pretty used to it after a while.

 

[Kat Stevens]

My guess is it's the "are" vs "is" thing.  If you find THAT distracting, might I humbly suggest you try your best to avoid any firefights in the future?  Those can be terribly distracting, what with all bullets flying around, explosions, and all that nasty swearing, which really adds nothing to the business at hand.

 

[eugenetswong]

Again though, I would like to point out that I am not condoning verbal or emotional abuse (because I've seen and heard both happen and wasn't impressed).  I am just saying, that from a soldier's point of view, someone swearing at me does not constitute either.  It's just noise.  Treat the actual swear words as noise, and you'll be okay.

Did you read what I said earlier in the discussion? I'd like to think that I already indicated that I treated it like noise.

 

[eugenetswong]

I'm sorry that i have to join this little conversation, after all i'm just an uneducated, cursing slimeball  :



Education and intelligence are 2 ******* different things. I have met university graduates who are the dumbest ****s in the world.

You don't have to join this conversation. Nobody does. You are comparing education and intelligence. I am not.

Maybe my statistics are wrong. I'll trust you if you say that the average person doesn't go on to college/university. If my statistics are wrong, then I'll just take back what I said.

I never meant to comment about the about the intelligence level. In fact, I never wanted to comment about the education level, but somebody asked me about it, and so I replied.

I originally only meant to suggest a way to avoid swearing, yet still apply the pressure necessary to the soldier.

Do we understand each other yet?

 

[xena]

Did you read what I said earlier in the discussion? I'd like to think that I already indicated that I treated it like noise.

Well, I just went back and looked back at your posts, and no, I did not find that you indicated that.  Besides, isn't this where the "old salts" give the newbies tips for making it through boot camp, rather than some folks who have recently made it through complaining about the experience?

You don't have to join this conversation. Nobody does...  Do we understand each other yet?

I'll also advise you to be careful who you are terse with.  There are plenty of folks here who have lifetimes of experience.  They are trying to pass on their wisdom to you.  Being a little more humble and appreciative will help immensely.

But, believe it or not, we understand your point.  We are just trying to guide you to a way of thinking in which it is not that important.

I suggest reading "Picking Up the Brass" by Eddie Nugent.  It's a great read and very funny.  It's available through Amazon.

 

[eugenetswong]

I don't know what unit you were with, but many of the soldiers in the CF are quite articulate.  Don't judge the entire CF by your brief association with a small segment of its employees.

Okay.

Being such a large country, we actually do have some varied dialects and pronunciations from coast to coast to coast, and even a few people who have a different first language than others, so expect some misuse of words when it comes to plurals.  Proper grammar and enunciation isn't always possible.

All the instructors are in the same province, and all of them seemed to speak English as a first language, and they consistently asked it in the same way. I even asked if this was a military way of asking that question. Consistently, all across the board, they said that it was bad English. That totally surprised me, because I didn't expect it to be so common.

Uh... like already mentioned, ever hear of 'life experience'?  There are more skills sets out there other than whats available at an academic facility...
Out on a patrol, I'd rather have a guy who used to be a hunting guide from interior BC than an English Major from UofT.  

Uh... like already mentioned. I agree. I'd rather have that guy too.

I think you've got some evaluation/loyalty issues going here - on one hand they're a bunch of inarticulate uneducated unwashed masses, and then on the other hand you say they are the best soldiers in the world?  Which is it gonna be?  

There are no evaluation/loyalty issues here. I didn't think of them as unwashed. You got that impression from your own interpretation. I know for a fact that I don't think of them unwashed and inarticulate. There's room for improvement, when it comes to becoming articulate, but I would never accuse them of being inarticulate.

And what's with your comments about the swearing?  Did you actually tell anyone you didnt like it and ask them to stop, or are you just complaining about it here?

Are you just asking a rhetorical question? I didn't bring it up on course. I'm just making a general suggestion.

 

[aesop081]

I originally only meant to suggest

Thanks but no thanks.

 

[eugenetswong]

Well, I just went back and looked back at your posts, and no, I did not find that you indicated that.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34712/post-697696.html#msg697696

You even replied to the message. I didn't specifically say it, but the story seems to indicate that I wasn't rattled, wouldn't you agree?

 

[eugenetswong]

I am wondering if his "Is there any questions?" statement pertains to the whole articulation speech in that the question starts with "Is" instead of "Are". I have never heard anyone ask "Is there any questions?" but I have heard "Are there any questions?". If that's not what he meant, then I must wonder if he ever went to school at all, because I never had a class where the teacher/professor did not ask if anyone had any questions, I would say you get pretty used to it after a while.

Yes, it's way that the question starts with "Is" instead of "Are".

Giving the students a chance to ask questions is a good thing. Every teacher/instructor should give students a chance to ask questions.

Maybe it's just the people in my province.

 

[xena]

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34712/post-697696.html#msg697696

You even replied to the message. I didn't specifically say it, but the story seems to indicate that I wasn't rattled, wouldn't you agree?

Obviously I don't.  You didn't specifically say it, nor IMHO, did you imply it.  But that's one of the problems with text-only communications - things like verbal emphasis and body language are missing, so it is very easy to misunderstand each other.  For now, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and read your following comments as if you attempted to imply that.  Does that work for you?

And, no, I'm pretty sure it's not the people in your province (I'm in your province too!).

 

[eugenetswong]

Obviously I don't.  You didn't specifically say it, nor IMHO, did you imply it.  But that's one of the problems with text-only communications - things like verbal emphasis and body language are missing, so it is very easy to misunderstand each other.  For now, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and read your following comments as if you attempted to imply that.  Does that work for you?

And, no, I'm pretty sure it's not the people in your province (I'm in your province too!).

Yeah, that works for me.

Thanks for pointing out your province. I didn't think to check.

 

[xdestrox]

Seems like it's better just to do what you're told in the long run though it may be less convenient than resorting to short cuts and tricks. The staff aren't stupid, and you're probably insulting their intelligence by thinking you'll get away with it.