Weapons modification RANT.

[KevinB]

hadji is a dirty little fucker so he blends into the ground.

KD ranges show weapon capability -- operation usage shows user capability.  Heck I've shot at more people than I've hit

 

[COBRA-6]

see, when we first tested that bad boy in Geoww-ja, I had no problem scoring at 300+, and couldn't figure out why guys coming back were saying they couldn't hit beyond 200. I fell in love with that sucker!

Guys have become dependent on magnified optics to shoot.

Para, what distanced were they zeroed at? 50m or 100m? With a 50m zero you shoot about 5.5inches low at 300m, with a 100m zero you shoot over 10 inches low at 300m. Since there's no adjustment for range on an EOTech like there is on the C79, they could have been shooting low if they didn't remember to adjust their POA...  ???

 

[KevinB]

The other issue is no-one in the CF has explained a 50m IBSZ to them...

 

[paracowboy]

Para, what distanced were they zeroed at? 50m or 100m? With a 50m zero you shoot about 5.5inches low at 300m, with a 100m zero you shoot over 10 inches low at 300m. Since there's no adjustment for range on an EOTech like there is on the C79, they could have been shooting low if they didn't remember to adjust their POA...

dunno, dude. In fact, I don't know if they were zee-roed at all. I just sat and listened while troops spilled their guts on what they experienced. Some absolutely hated the EOTech, which I found surprising. But, since I wasn't there, I certainly wasn't about to start arguing with them about their experiences.

 

[boondocksaint]

I had one on my C-8/M203, it worked great in close contact, quick target acquisition and no worries about proper eye relief, just a nice big window

like I-6 mentioned though, overlap was huge in the section, Timmie favors mouseholes and firing from receded areas ( he learns fast ) so scopes played a huge role, especially in the mountains

Eotech's may not be the end all be all, but they are a great tool for the section

 

[paracowboy]

Eotech's may not be the end all be all, but they are a great tool for the section

and, there we have it. I don't know that there is a be-all, end-all. The ranges vary to such extremes that a section really does need the capability to reach out to 500, and still be able to engage effectively at 100 or less.

Anybody got something that'll do that?

 

[KevinB]

Short Dot  ;D

Mine

BigRed's Iraqi Zapper

 

[boondocksaint]

that schmidt-bender thingy? our fav gun nut ( who cant have guns) swears by them, but they are a bit pricey arent they?

 

[paracowboy]

Short Dot

seriously? Out to 500?

 

[GAP]

and, there we have it. I don't know that there is a be-all, end-all. The ranges vary to such extremes that a section really does need the capability to reach out to 500, and still be able to engage effectively at 100 or less.

Anybody got something that'll do that?

M-14

 

[paracowboy]

7.62 won't fly. So let's focus on making do with what we got.

S&B Shot Dot, with an improved 5.56?

 

[COBRA-6]

S&B SD would be great, too bad it cost twice as much as the rifle  ;D

Short dots and Mk 262... giggidy giggidy giggidy!

 

[KevinB]

I spoke to RobAk today (not sure he is still a member here)  I think improved 5.56mm is not going to happen.
 He had a cost quote on how much it would be...  ugly lets just say

I'd honestly prefer to get troops shooting more than improve the ammo -- get the JTF out teaching shooting to the Infanteers -- a lot of bad drills get taught in the units.  Perfect practise make perfect -- poor practice just gives shitty skill muscle memory.

The CF IS NOT going to rush out and buy Short Dots for each Infanteer -- heck I heard somewhere else wants to wait till NightForce fixes their 1-4x before they adopt it...
 
I don't like the C79 due to the mount -- but if the troop takes care of it - and it is routinely inspected by FCS and fixed -- it still has a place.
 I'd prefer to give every troops a C8SFW with a real BIS and both EOTECH and C79A2 (well I'd prefer more -- but realitically the previous is possible).
Get a RAS - a good SF light - a PEQ-2B and some trigger time with an excellent trainer.

I dont see a need for the 20" barrel (we've been over and over than one).

 

[paracowboy]

yeah, I think a LOT more trigger time would solve most of our problems, to be honest. At various ranges. Not just PWT and Gunfighter. (Which is an improvement. A big one. Don't get me wrong.) But we need to get troopies putting holes in things at everything from 25 to 500, in all kinds of ridiculous positions, and with varying degrees of stress applied.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

You mean like sniper competitions?
+1 to all points made.

Looks like over $2000 for I-6 sight.

 

[paracowboy]

You mean like sniper competitions?

I didn't say that, but now you mention it...

Hey, if it works for them, why wouldn't the same principles work for yer average line-doggie? Snipers ain't nuthin' but highly trained infantrymen, capable of remaining in postion for extended periods of time, under demanding circumstances, in order to eliminate targets with precision fire at extreme ranges. So, reduce the ranges, speed up the time allowed for shots, and voila!

Plus, I want AR-10s with Designated Marksmen. At a minimum, 2 per Wpns Det. (I will NOT stop with that. Just so's ya know.)

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I'd like a AR 10.  Snipers have some serious skills.  Watching on TV some of the sniper competitions, firing on their sides etc reminded me of what you said.

 

[COBRA-6]

Plus, I want AR-10s with Designated Marksmen. At a minimum, 2 per Wpns Det. (I will NOT stop with that. Just so's ya know.)

Something like this?

 

[a_majoor]

All these posts talk about individual preferences, but isn't there an argument to be made for tailoring the kit for the position? For example, a section commander might be more effective if he is issued/buys a magnifying optic so he can zero in on where the mouseholes are and then direct his section's fire, while the riflemen are more effective with the non magnifying "point and shoot" types of sights. I would presume there is some sort of ideal sight for the C-9 gunners as well.

This is just some speculation on my part, but is this a valid argument or am I fighting the wrong war here?

 

[KevinB]

Art - counter argument -- the section commander needs the reddot since he is scanning with binos and commanding not shooting - the only time he needs to shoot than lead is when confronted with immediate threat tgts    (I dont think there is a DS answer BTW)

Ideally one optic would do both... :threat:


I'd much prefer the KAC M110/Mk11 Mod0 in Cobra's pick to a basement built AR10T with el-cheapo rail and alluminum suppressor -- since they work