Venezuela Superthread- Merged

[Mike Baker]

Chavez set to spend big on Russian weapons

MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez arrived in Moscow Tuesday to discuss a deal to spend billions on Russia weapons.

Chavez will meet with Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and Russia's new President Dmitry Medvedev, Russian news agency, Interfax, said

The two countries hope to sign an agreement for Venezuela to buy Russian military equipment, said Vyacheslav Davidenko, a spokesman for Rosoboronexport, Russia's government agency in charge of arms exports.

The agreement will allow "quick deliveries of arms and military hardware in the interests of Venezuela's security with the observance of international obligations and the laws of both countries," Davidenko told CNN.

Davidenko wouldn't elaborate on the types of weapons that Venezuela wanted to purchase -- or the cost. Previous military-technical contracts had been worth $4 billion, he said.

Interfax quoted an "informed military expert" as saying Venezuela planned to purchase up to 10 air defense systems, three diesel electric submarines, six more non-nuclear powered submarines and several surface vessels.

Venezuela also planned to discuss the possibility of buying certain aircraft, including combat helicopters, the expert said.

The Associated Press reported the deal could be worth $2 billion.

Little more on the link.
-Deadpan

 

[NL_engineer]

Looks like the US will have to reactivate its missile sub fleet.


I don't thing Chavez is dumb enough to attack a US Vessel/Aircraft, as it would make Venezuela the next air America drop zone.  IMO  Venezuela has no chance in a conventional war with the US.

 

[OldSolduer]

Did the US ever deactivate the "boomers"? Maybe some Navy pers can help us here.....

 

[aesop081]

Did the US ever deactivate the "boomers"? Maybe some Navy pers can help us here.....

Some are being converted to cruise missle carriers but the others are still being maintained as SSBNs.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Having seen Venezuelan military at various checkpoints, during my travels there, including a FAL mag plate on backwards! I feel confident that this problem will be self-correcting, in fact the US may gain friends if they are able to successfully rescue the crew of a sunken sub. Plus given the recent Indian and Algerian/Libyan experience with the Russians and their exports, I suspect they will be delivered late and unusable without significant upgrades.

Gee sounds like Canada's purchase....... ;D

 

[aesop081]

Having seen Venezuelan military at various checkpoints, during my travels there, including a FAL mag plate on backwards! I feel confident that this problem will be self-correcting, in fact the US may gain friends if they are able to successfully rescue the crew of a sunken sub. Plus given the recent Indian and Algerian/Libyan experience with the Russians and their exports, I suspect they will be delivered late and unusable without significant upgrades.

I know better than to be so quick to dismiss this as a non-threat.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I know better than to be so quick to dismiss this as a non-threat.

I think the ability of the Venzuelan miltary under Chavez to maintain the vessels, their equipment and training will be hard pressed. Corruption was rampant there in 94 and apparenty even worse today. Plus the recent track record of large Russian sales has not been so great.

 

[aesop081]

I think the ability of the Venzuelan miltary under Chavez to maintain the vessels, their equipment and training will be hard pressed. Corruption was rampant there in 94 and apparenty even worse today. Plus the recent track record of large Russian sales has not been so great.

Like i said.....I'm not so quick to dismiss this.

 

[OldSolduer]

I agree with Aviator. Although Venezuela may be a hick country when compared to the USA, Hugo Chavez is unpredictable. That's what makes this purchase of submarines by Venezuela potentially dangerous.
Are there any other countries in South America with subs?

This alters the balance of power in that region.

 

[NL_engineer]

I agree with Aviator. Although Venezuela may be a hick country when compared to the USA, Hugo Chavez is unpredictable. That's what makes this purchase of submarines by Venezuela potentially dangerous.
Are there any other countries in South America with subs?

This alters the balance of power in that region.

Brazil

or so the article says

 

[drunknsubmrnr]

Venezuela already had subs. A lot of South American countries have them, but only the Chileans really know how to use them. Brazil is working on an SSN.

I wouldn't dismiss this, but it's not exactly something to be overly concerned about either. The Venezuelans are unlikely to suddenly achieve competency in submarine ops, especially a new class.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

It seems that they have not kept their fleet of 2x type 209’s sailing for some time. Not surprising as I doubt Germany is interested in selling Chavez spare parts. Apparently he was trying to buy subs off of Europe, but got the cold shoulder. At best the subs would take 5 years to complete and deliver. Then another 2 years to work up crews and fleet integration. Chavez control is not absolute yet, despite his best efforts, if he does get control, he will purge his military of competent leaders as he will deem them a threat. The purpose these subs are to serve is as a potential threat and to bolster his rhetoric.

The real threat of the Venezuelan military represents is local to his neighbours, which include Holland through it’s Islands. So there is a possibility that NATO could come into conflict if he decides to “reclaim” them. Imagine Falklands in a tourist destination with the Venezuelan’s able to provide limited air coverage.

 

[NL_engineer]

The real threat of the Venezuelan military represents is local to his neighbours, which include Holland through it’s Islands. So there is a possibility that NATO could come into conflict if he decides to “reclaim” them. Imagine Falklands in a tourist destination with the Venezuelan’s able to provide limited air coverage.

I don't think he will try something like that when he doesn't have to look to far back to see how Argentina feared against just the Brits, let alone try something like that now, and have a dog pile form NATO and/or the EU come to the fight (if NATO joins in, but most likely the EU will pile in to help IMO). 

He may have Russian subs, and I think Europe still has a lot of equipment laying around to detect them.

 

[aesop081]

The purpose these subs are to serve is as a potential threat and to bolster his rhetoric.

The potential threat posed by a submarine is more than suficient to alter the dynamics of the region. Thus, in whatever state, a submarine IS a threat that cannot be dismissed.

the Venezuelan’s able to provide limited air coverage.

With Venezuala buying modern fighter aircrafts and blessed by the fact that theres not a whole lot of water between Curacao and venezuela the threat, although it wouldnt last long IMHO, would have to be dealt with and would not be "limited".

 

[Retired AF Guy]

At best the subs would take 5 years to complete and deliver. Then another 2 years to work up crews and fleet integration. Chavez control is not absolute yet, despite his best efforts, if he does get control, he will purge his military of competent leaders as he will deem them a threat. The purpose these subs are to serve is as a potential threat and to bolster his rhetoric.

You have a good point. Its going to take some time for the subs to be built, then work trails, crew training, etc, before they come operational. Venezuela has a fairly small navy so just finding the crews to man them maybe a problem. I would be more worried about the 2006 report of acquisition of Russian SU-30/35 fighters and a whole hockey sock of helicopters. The Venezuelan Air Force already has 34 F-16/A/Bs so the learning curve between the two is not the that much.

Also worrisome is the acquisition of a large number (plus plans to build rifles in-country) of assault rifles. The last thing the world needs is someone making more AK variants; its not like there's the aren't enough floating around as is. If Chavez starts passing them around to his "friends" in South/Central America he could make a trouble for people living there. His ties with Iran and other countries with anti-Western/US views is also of concern.

 

[OldSolduer]

Yes I agree. What is most disturbing is his apparent hatred of anything American, plus his unpredictability.

SO why isn' t the MSM up in arms about Mr. Chavez shutting down the opposing media in Venezuela?

 

[drunknsubmrnr]

It would take at least 5 years to perform fleet integration and train the crew enough to make them at least moderately competent.

This is bluster, not a credible short-term threat.

 

[RCD]

This alters the balance of power in the region.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Yes I agree. What is most disturbing is his apparent hatred of anything American, plus his unpredictability.

SO why isn' t the MSM up in arms about Mr. Chavez shutting down the opposing media in Venezuela?

Because he is anti-Bush/American therefore a good guy, you know an enemy of my enemy is my friend....

 

[OldSolduer]

That was a rhetorical question.  ;D