Aerobicrunner
Member
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I havn't seen anything regarding this event and how it went yesterday. Was there a large or small crowd? Was the crowd hostile or sympathetic? Was the debate informative and lively? Is it possible to get a summation?Feral said:
S
Stout
Guest
George Wallace said:
Bravo
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I wasn't able to make the event (I figured skipping the class that I have a midterm in on Friday wasn't a good idea), but from what I was told it was pretty tame. There were a couple of protesters that ended up walking out after muttering about the RCMP and "imperialism", but otherwise uneventful. I'm just hoping that it's informed even a few people about what this is all about.
For now though I think it's just a matter of overcoming the typical student apathy and getting them out to vote at the AGM. Those who want the ban are small in numbers but are very dedicated. It does sound like there are enough signatures for the petition to impeach though (although that is second-hand knowledge so don't hold me to it until it's confirmed through another source).
For now though I think it's just a matter of overcoming the typical student apathy and getting them out to vote at the AGM. Those who want the ban are small in numbers but are very dedicated. It does sound like there are enough signatures for the petition to impeach though (although that is second-hand knowledge so don't hold me to it until it's confirmed through another source).
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Like my favorite saying goes, "If you don't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them". I can't wait for next week I'm doing a red and white recruiting trip on Vancouver island, then me and my buddy from UVIC can have a good laugh at these guys. Personally, I don't know how anyone can listen to these people and call "US" liars. I'm personally stunned by this. just floors me.
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I hope this issue is in MSM, perhaps the brass could do a press release showing how much money the military and it's members put into the economy on Victoria Island. My husband was part of the first detachment sent to Pat Bay, I remember Victoria as a Military friendly town.
University Students, usually, are hardcore socialist koolaide drinking moonbats, feeding the hungry and the poor whilst saving the homeless are their favorite protest subjects. The Military is usually the Profs. special projects, hallowed halls of Acadamia and all that non-sense. People out of touch with reality being paid by the public purse, perhaps it's time the left got esponged out public funded universities. They have to much power and control over some young minds that don't seem to be able to think for themselves.
University Students, usually, are hardcore socialist koolaide drinking moonbats, feeding the hungry and the poor whilst saving the homeless are their favorite protest subjects. The Military is usually the Profs. special projects, hallowed halls of Acadamia and all that non-sense. People out of touch with reality being paid by the public purse, perhaps it's time the left got esponged out public funded universities. They have to much power and control over some young minds that don't seem to be able to think for themselves.
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I'm sorry, but that statement is ridiculous. I was once a university student, as were many of my colleagues in the CF, both officers and NCMs. Most university students are focused on getting their degrees and then finding a job, and take no part in student politics, left, right or centre. (See earlier posts re the inability of the SFU student society to meet a quorum.) On what do you base your remarks?
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Good day all,
Just a quick note on the debate last night at UVic. There were about 60 people there, mostly from the anti-war movement, but that's to be expected in a panel that they arranged.
I was pleased to have been able to represent 'our' side of our involvement in Afghanistan, and believe it or not, I think that some of the people were actually listening to what I had to say so that's positive.
If anyone is interested, there was a small article written about it in the local paper this morning that I've included below.
SNJ
Afghanistan mission sparks debate at UVic
Sandra McCulloch, Times Colonist
Published: Friday, October 19, 2007
Canada's role in Afghanistan was the topic of a debate that drew about 60 people to the University of Victoria yesterday evening.
The debate, sponsored by the group Students Against War, featured freelance journalist Antony Fenton of Pitt Meadows and Bill Danielsen, a UVic student and member of the Canadian Forces.
Fenton and Danielsen gave responses to questions asked by a moderator on Canada's involvement in the conflict.
On why Canada is in Afghanistan, Danielsen said "because we were asked to be there" by the Afghan government.
The Canadian Forces are there "because the government of Canada sent us there to help a nation that asked for help."
He dismissed the notion that the West could benefit from the area's natural resources.
Fenton said Canada was helping the U.S. with its "imperial policy" and argued the point that Canadian corporations had a strong interest in the gold buried there. On the effectiveness of the reconstruction initiatives, Fenton argued that international aid is a counter-insurgency tool and the idea that you can't begin reconstruction until you have stability is "rhetoric."
Afghanistan was heavily damaged by civil war, and Canada is helping to build roads, dig wells and construct infrastructure, Danielsen said. "Since 2001, the per capita income has doubled," he said.
Foreign troops have helped build 8,000 kilometres of new roads, he added.
During a seven-month deployment there, Danielsen said he and his troop were regularly handing out school supplies and raised money to dig a well.
The debate leads up to a motion to be presented next week at the UVic Students Society annual general meeting that calls for banning Canadian military recruiters from the Student Union Building.
The motion "is not an attempt to restrict students' rights to sign up for the Armed Forces, but rather [is] a symbolic gesture of protest towards the Canadian military recruitment practices," reads the annual meeting's agenda
Just a quick note on the debate last night at UVic. There were about 60 people there, mostly from the anti-war movement, but that's to be expected in a panel that they arranged.
I was pleased to have been able to represent 'our' side of our involvement in Afghanistan, and believe it or not, I think that some of the people were actually listening to what I had to say so that's positive.
If anyone is interested, there was a small article written about it in the local paper this morning that I've included below.
SNJ
Afghanistan mission sparks debate at UVic
Sandra McCulloch, Times Colonist
Published: Friday, October 19, 2007
Canada's role in Afghanistan was the topic of a debate that drew about 60 people to the University of Victoria yesterday evening.
The debate, sponsored by the group Students Against War, featured freelance journalist Antony Fenton of Pitt Meadows and Bill Danielsen, a UVic student and member of the Canadian Forces.
Fenton and Danielsen gave responses to questions asked by a moderator on Canada's involvement in the conflict.
On why Canada is in Afghanistan, Danielsen said "because we were asked to be there" by the Afghan government.
The Canadian Forces are there "because the government of Canada sent us there to help a nation that asked for help."
He dismissed the notion that the West could benefit from the area's natural resources.
Fenton said Canada was helping the U.S. with its "imperial policy" and argued the point that Canadian corporations had a strong interest in the gold buried there. On the effectiveness of the reconstruction initiatives, Fenton argued that international aid is a counter-insurgency tool and the idea that you can't begin reconstruction until you have stability is "rhetoric."
Afghanistan was heavily damaged by civil war, and Canada is helping to build roads, dig wells and construct infrastructure, Danielsen said. "Since 2001, the per capita income has doubled," he said.
Foreign troops have helped build 8,000 kilometres of new roads, he added.
During a seven-month deployment there, Danielsen said he and his troop were regularly handing out school supplies and raised money to dig a well.
The debate leads up to a motion to be presented next week at the UVic Students Society annual general meeting that calls for banning Canadian military recruiters from the Student Union Building.
The motion "is not an attempt to restrict students' rights to sign up for the Armed Forces, but rather [is] a symbolic gesture of protest towards the Canadian military recruitment practices," reads the annual meeting's agenda
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SweetNavyJustice said:
So, the oil argument is moot: now it's gold? Holy friggin' moly!
Yeah, "rhetoric". Send Fenton over to construct with Taliban taking him hostage and beheading him every two weeks!SweetNavyJustice said:
:
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I am a little late to reply to this.
Banning the military from recruiting at a public institution is a huge joke. Not only that, but the articles that have created national attention on the subject are. Several people have quoted that third year anthropology student for her comment saying that we are doing illegal things there, but what about the articles author who placed that comment in the paper that day? I was surprised no one said anything about this. A journalist, or aspiring journalist, whatever they may be should have at least provided some support for that comment. Frankly the structure of that article was poorly written and with little merrit in my books. I hope they vote to allow the military to recruit there. We are all granted fundamental freedoms, and although you can go downtown to Fort St. to the Victoria recruiting center (a 15 minute bus ride from UVic exchange on the #14), meeting with a person one on one while exploring your options is probably a little less intimidating that walking into the center and being approached by a buncha Sgt's. Anyways, just my opinion is all. I think more attention should be pointed at the journalist and editor for deliberately allowing a completely unfounded opinion to be printed in an article that should be portraying the facts.
Banning the military from recruiting at a public institution is a huge joke. Not only that, but the articles that have created national attention on the subject are. Several people have quoted that third year anthropology student for her comment saying that we are doing illegal things there, but what about the articles author who placed that comment in the paper that day? I was surprised no one said anything about this. A journalist, or aspiring journalist, whatever they may be should have at least provided some support for that comment. Frankly the structure of that article was poorly written and with little merrit in my books. I hope they vote to allow the military to recruit there. We are all granted fundamental freedoms, and although you can go downtown to Fort St. to the Victoria recruiting center (a 15 minute bus ride from UVic exchange on the #14), meeting with a person one on one while exploring your options is probably a little less intimidating that walking into the center and being approached by a buncha Sgt's. Anyways, just my opinion is all. I think more attention should be pointed at the journalist and editor for deliberately allowing a completely unfounded opinion to be printed in an article that should be portraying the facts.
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For your information, the vote to ban the CF from the student union building was voted down this evening. There were a great deal of people trying to manipulate the meeting and make the debate about Afghanistan, but we prevailed in the end. For those in the lower mainland of BC it will probably be on the evening news. I'm sure that there will be a great deal of protesting done at the career fair, but that is nothing new.
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UVic students overturn military recruitment ban
Vote overwhelmingly against ouster of Forces from January career fair
Cindy E. Harnett, Times Colonist, 26 Oct 07
Article link
University of Victoria students voted overwhelmingly in favour yesterday of allowing military recruiters at a career fair in their Student Union Building, reversing an earlier student society decision to ban them.
Cheers, applause and calls for beers rang out when the standing-room only crowd of about 350 voted in favour of what the majority said was an issue of freedom of speech.
"This is a big victory for democracy," UVic student Jon Fox said. "I'm just really glad everyone came out, no matter what side they were for. We made a democratic decision today that has upheld the rights of everyone, not just a select few."
Student George Robinson worked for more than a month, urging students to vote against the ban.
"I'm thrilled the motion to ban our Armed Forces was defeated," Robinson said. "We worked hard to get a majority of the moderate student on campus out today."
Opposing sides both used passionate arguments about democratic rights and the freedom of speech to explain their views.
The pro-ban side said prohibiting the military from recruiting on campus is a way of making a statement against Canada's combat role in the NATO-led mission in Afghanistan.
"For me, exercising my democratic right and freedom of speech is about taking actions to actually stop things from happening," student Jennifer King said.
"I see this ban as a concrete thing I can do to prevent the spread ... of our military action and [students] being drawn into something they may not know the totality of," King said.
Meanwhile, the anti-ban side argued that including the military allows everyone the right to have a voice, access and choice.
UVic student Daniel Lonsdale, in his naval cadet uniform, said his intelligence was insulted by the Sept. 10 decision to ban the Canadian military from a career fair in the Student Union Building in January.
The September vote was a 6-6 deadlock, broken by chairwoman Tracy Ho who favoured the ban.
"I think it's embarrassing they think we can't make up our own minds. That's what university is all about," Lonsdale said.
The debate yesterday was confused by myriad issues -- one student was dressed in mix-and-match Abu Ghraib/Guantanamo Bay prison garb, an apparent denunciation of U.S. military treatment of detainees.
There was an overwhelming number of interruptions for points of order, points of privilege and points of information during the annual general meeting. At one point, someone decided there was no point at all in continuing and called for the debate to end and the vote to be called.
The chairwoman was challenged, the rules were challenged, and during an intermission students broke out their Robert's Rules of Order meeting handbooks.
Serina Zapf, a political science student, came to the meeting to vote against the ban and for "a dialogue of voices." But she ended up not voting at all after becoming disheartened.
"I actually didn't vote one way or another," Zapf said. "I felt the side voting against the ban was being disrespectful of other people's right to speech. I think people are missing the real issue here."
Tom Page, a visiting student from Britain, was also shaking his head.
"It's ironic people that are supposedly voting in favour of freedom of speech are trying to shut down the other side of the debate," Page said. "That's not freedom of speech at all."
ceharnett@tc.canwest.com
UVic students overturn military recruitment ban
Vote overwhelmingly against ouster of Forces from January career fair
Cindy E. Harnett, Times Colonist, 26 Oct 07
Article link
University of Victoria students voted overwhelmingly in favour yesterday of allowing military recruiters at a career fair in their Student Union Building, reversing an earlier student society decision to ban them.
Cheers, applause and calls for beers rang out when the standing-room only crowd of about 350 voted in favour of what the majority said was an issue of freedom of speech.
"This is a big victory for democracy," UVic student Jon Fox said. "I'm just really glad everyone came out, no matter what side they were for. We made a democratic decision today that has upheld the rights of everyone, not just a select few."
Student George Robinson worked for more than a month, urging students to vote against the ban.
"I'm thrilled the motion to ban our Armed Forces was defeated," Robinson said. "We worked hard to get a majority of the moderate student on campus out today."
Opposing sides both used passionate arguments about democratic rights and the freedom of speech to explain their views.
The pro-ban side said prohibiting the military from recruiting on campus is a way of making a statement against Canada's combat role in the NATO-led mission in Afghanistan.
"For me, exercising my democratic right and freedom of speech is about taking actions to actually stop things from happening," student Jennifer King said.
"I see this ban as a concrete thing I can do to prevent the spread ... of our military action and [students] being drawn into something they may not know the totality of," King said.
Meanwhile, the anti-ban side argued that including the military allows everyone the right to have a voice, access and choice.
UVic student Daniel Lonsdale, in his naval cadet uniform, said his intelligence was insulted by the Sept. 10 decision to ban the Canadian military from a career fair in the Student Union Building in January.
The September vote was a 6-6 deadlock, broken by chairwoman Tracy Ho who favoured the ban.
"I think it's embarrassing they think we can't make up our own minds. That's what university is all about," Lonsdale said.
The debate yesterday was confused by myriad issues -- one student was dressed in mix-and-match Abu Ghraib/Guantanamo Bay prison garb, an apparent denunciation of U.S. military treatment of detainees.
There was an overwhelming number of interruptions for points of order, points of privilege and points of information during the annual general meeting. At one point, someone decided there was no point at all in continuing and called for the debate to end and the vote to be called.
The chairwoman was challenged, the rules were challenged, and during an intermission students broke out their Robert's Rules of Order meeting handbooks.
Serina Zapf, a political science student, came to the meeting to vote against the ban and for "a dialogue of voices." But she ended up not voting at all after becoming disheartened.
"I actually didn't vote one way or another," Zapf said. "I felt the side voting against the ban was being disrespectful of other people's right to speech. I think people are missing the real issue here."
Tom Page, a visiting student from Britain, was also shaking his head.
"It's ironic people that are supposedly voting in favour of freedom of speech are trying to shut down the other side of the debate," Page said. "That's not freedom of speech at all."
ceharnett@tc.canwest.com
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Great to see that this issue motivated the students to debate and exercise their democratic right to vote. After all did not the blood of many soldiers earn them this right.
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I saw this clip on the news last night, the students looked quite happy with their achievement.
Talk about sour apples on the anti-military side. When they squeak through a ban against military recruitment its for the common good. When the student body shows up and argues that they want the military to show up, its because they dont understand the issues. When the anti-war group pulls a fast one in the voting, its revolution in action. When the student body shows up and starts using Roberts rules of order, they're manipulating the system.
Bah, what a bunch of whiners...
Talk about sour apples on the anti-military side. When they squeak through a ban against military recruitment its for the common good. When the student body shows up and argues that they want the military to show up, its because they dont understand the issues. When the anti-war group pulls a fast one in the voting, its revolution in action. When the student body shows up and starts using Roberts rules of order, they're manipulating the system.
Bah, what a bunch of whiners...
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