US Election: 2016

[The Bread Guy]

Well, John Bolton would certainly know something about "false flag" operations by the intelligence community.

Wasn't he a Dubya hack in diplomatic circles when they tried to sell the world a bill of sales on weapons of mass destruction, based on cooked up intel prepared at their own higher leadership request's !

Which is, ironically, the very shot Trump & Co. are throwing back @ the CIA #DejaVuAllOverAgain

Meanwhile, this was too funny NOT to share - gotta love Duffle Blog:
"Army to become ‘Land Marines’ under Mattis, Dunford-led Pentagon reorganization"

 

[a_majoor]

Well, John Bolton would certainly know something about "false flag" operations by the intelligence community.

Wasn't he a Dubya hack in diplomatic circles when they tried to sell the world a bill of sales on weapons of mass destruction, based on cooked up intel prepared at their own higher leadership request's !

By "W" are you referring to William Jefferson Clinton, who warned us of the dangers of Iraqi WMD in 1998?

 

[FJAG]

A worthwhile read:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2016/12/12/why-hillary-lost-the-great-american-lie/?utm_hp_ref=au-homepage

:subbies:

 

[a_majoor]

For the "Putin rigged the election" fans.....

 

[The Bread Guy]

By "W" are you referring to William Jefferson Clinton, who warned us of the dangers of Iraqi WMD in 1998?

1)  If entirely true, I guess if someone from one party makes a mistake, it sorta cancels out the next party's mistake of carrying on with the same mistake and not correcting it, especially if you like the next party better (see New Veterans Charter)? 
2)  Here's a slightly different take on the attached meme.

Standing by for "fake news" reference, in 3, 2 ...

 

[mariomike]

A worthwhile read:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2016/12/12/why-hillary-lost-the-great-american-lie/?utm_hp_ref=au-homepage

:subbies:

"Hillary Clinton Won More Votes. A Lot More.

Hillary Clinton won the national popular vote by 2.7 million.” Or, put in another way, “Hillary Clinton won more votes than any other presidential candidate in history, second only to Obama.” (Note: Cook Political Report believes that she may surpass Obama’s 2012 total, for good measure.)

Let’s pretend for a minute that the very real possibility of foreign interventionism is not a factor, or the unaddressed fact that overwhelming evidence suggest Russia interfered, and ignore investigative journalist Greg Palast’s stunning revelation that more than 3 million absentee and provisional ballots were wrongfully disqualified and thrown away uncounted.

Any honest assessment of this presidential election must look at the disproportionate power the Electoral College currently allocates to rural areas. Indeed, a vote in Wyoming has four times the power of a vote from New York, thanks to the way electoral college votes are apportioned in each state."

 

[QV]

No one had a problem with the electoral college when they thought Clinton had this in the bag. 

 

[mariomike]

No one had a problem with the electoral college when they thought Clinton had this in the bag.

One individual Tweeted, "The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy." 
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/266038556504494082?lang=en&lang=en

"The United States is the only country that elects a politically powerful president via an electoral college and the only one in which a candidate can become president without having obtained the highest number of votes in the sole or final round of popular voting."

— George C. Edwards, 2011
http://pols.tamu.edu/about-us/faculty-directory/george-c-edwards-iii-distinguished-professor/

Why the Electoral College Is Bad for America
http://yalebooks.com/book/9780300166491/why-electoral-college-bad-america

 

[QV]

I stand corrected

 

[vonGarvin]

"Hillary Clinton Won More Votes. A Lot More.

Hillary Clinton won the national popular vote by 2.7 million.” Or, put in another way, “Hillary Clinton won more votes than any other presidential candidate in history, second only to Obama.” (Note: Cook Political Report believes that she may surpass Obama’s 2012 total, for good measure.)

Let’s pretend for a minute that the very real possibility of foreign interventionism is not a factor, or the unaddressed fact that overwhelming evidence suggest Russia interfered, and ignore investigative journalist Greg Palast’s stunning revelation that more than 3 million absentee and provisional ballots were wrongfully disqualified and thrown away uncounted.

Any honest assessment of this presidential election must look at the disproportionate power the Electoral College currently allocates to rural areas. Indeed, a vote in Wyoming has four times the power of a vote from New York, thanks to the way electoral college votes are apportioned in each state."

Well, if this were a direct democracy, then it would matter.  If popular vote were all that mattered, then Clinton, Trump et al would campaign in NYC and LA.  That's it, that's all.  Read the reason for the electoral college.  Also remember that states are all supposed to be equal partners in the United States and that there wasn't one election, but 51 simultaneous elections, one in each state and one in DC.  So, the individual doesn't elect the president; the states do.
So, New York has 29 votes for POTUS, where Wyoming has 3.

 

[mariomike]

So, New York has 29 votes for POTUS, where Wyoming has 3.

So, New York has 6.16% of the total US population, Wyoming has 0.18%.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_population#States_and_territories

"Remember Donald Trump’s tax returns? It was unheard-of for a presidential candidate to refuse to release returns, since doing so strongly suggests that he has something to hide. And at first the Trump campaign offered excuses, claiming that the returns would eventually be made available once an I.R.S. audit was done, or something. But at this point it’s apparent that Mr. Trump believed, correctly, that he could violate all the norms, stonewall on even the most basic disclosure, and pay no political price.

Indeed, it’s clear that Hillary Clinton was in effect punished for her financial transparency, while Mr. Trump was rewarded for his practice of revealing nothing about how he makes money."
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/05/opinion/the-art-of-the-scam.html?_r=0

 

[Jed]

So, New York has 6.16% of the total US population, Wyoming has 0.18%.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_population#States_and_territories

"Remember Donald Trump’s tax returns? It was unheard-of for a presidential candidate to refuse to release returns, since doing so strongly suggests that he has something to hide. And at first the Trump campaign offered excuses, claiming that the returns would eventually be made available once an I.R.S. audit was done, or something. But at this point it’s apparent that Mr. Trump believed, correctly, that he could violate all the norms, stonewall on even the most basic disclosure, and pay no political price.

Indeed, it’s clear that Hillary Clinton was in effect punished for her financial transparency, while Mr. Trump was rewarded for his practice of revealing nothing about how he makes money."
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/05/opinion/the-art-of-the-scam.html?_r=0

Oh give me a break, Hillary Clinton - Financial Transparency? 

 

[kkwd]

Nowhere else in the world can you lose the popular vote and still win the election. Or is there?

http://www.lop.parl.gc.ca/ParlInfo/compilations/ElectionsAndRidings/ResultsParty.aspx
http://www.lop.parl.gc.ca/ParlInfo/Files/Parliament.aspx?Item=c5449790-7bc0-4dfd-9dfa-08e67900dade
http://www.lop.parl.gc.ca/ParlInfo/Files/Parliament.aspx?Item=208ab68e-34ac-423b-abb9-1723ff5a6a2c
http://www.lop.parl.gc.ca/ParlInfo/Files/Parliament.aspx?Item=96c4fc6b-343a-4458-8860-38f39f20f737
http://www.lop.parl.gc.ca/ParlInfo/Files/Parliament.aspx?Item=1929ac35-2e4b-4cd2-8c90-f0d54cdf11da
http://www.lop.parl.gc.ca/ParlInfo/Files/Parliament.aspx?Item=3f135f9f-59ca-42f9-b36f-6abfd0137c1e

 

[a_majoor]

Slate published an article about how great the Electoral College is in 2012: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/view_from_chicago/2012/11/defending_the_electoral_college.html…

Slate published an article in 2016 on why the Electoral college was an anachronism and could be quickly abolished:http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/view_from_chicago/2012/11/defending_the_electoral_college.html …

I wonder what was different to make them change their minds? </sarc>

 

[mariomike]

Oh give me a break, Hillary Clinton - Financial Transparency?

Why does he refuse to release his tax returns?

"With the exception of Mr. Trump, every major party presidential candidate for nearly 40 years has made his or her tax returns public, because voters need to know how candidates made their money, how much they paid in taxes, and their use of tax shelters and deductions. Tax returns also provide information about a candidate’s financial ties to foreign businesses and governments, and other potential conflicts of interest."
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/12/opinion/an-antidote-to-donald-trumps-secrecy-on-taxes.html

The 2012 US election, and the 2015 Canadian election have been brought up,

Popular vote 2012:
Obama 65,915,795
Romney: 60,933,504

The same reason the Liberals promised electoral reform... And then they won a majority with less than 40% popular vote...

Popular vote 2015:
Trudeau 6,943,276
Harper 5,613,614
Mulcair 3,470,350

 

[Halifax Tar]

Slate published an article about how great the Electoral College is in 2012: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/view_from_chicago/2012/11/defending_the_electoral_college.html…

Slate published an article in 2016 on why the Electoral college was an anachronism and could be quickly abolished:http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/view_from_chicago/2012/11/defending_the_electoral_college.html …

I wonder what was different to make them change their minds? </sarc>

The same reason the Liberals promised electoral reform... And then they won a majority with less than 40% popular vote... Yikes!!!!  Don't push that campaign promise to hard!

 

[McG]

Nowhere else in the world can you lose the popular vote and still win the election. Or is there?

http://www.lop.parl.gc.ca/ParlInfo/compilations/ElectionsAndRidings/ResultsParty.aspx
http://www.lop.parl.gc.ca/ParlInfo/Files/Parliament.aspx?Item=c5449790-7bc0-4dfd-9dfa-08e67900dade
http://www.lop.parl.gc.ca/ParlInfo/Files/Parliament.aspx?Item=208ab68e-34ac-423b-abb9-1723ff5a6a2c
http://www.lop.parl.gc.ca/ParlInfo/Files/Parliament.aspx?Item=96c4fc6b-343a-4458-8860-38f39f20f737
http://www.lop.parl.gc.ca/ParlInfo/Files/Parliament.aspx?Item=1929ac35-2e4b-4cd2-8c90-f0d54cdf11da
http://www.lop.parl.gc.ca/ParlInfo/Files/Parliament.aspx?Item=3f135f9f-59ca-42f9-b36f-6abfd0137c1e

The quote you are refuting is specifically about electing presidents.  Since we do not have a president and we do not vote on the Governor General, is the Canadian example relevant?

 

[cupper]

The quote you are refuting is specifically about electing presidents.  Since we do not have a president and we do not vote on the Governor General, is the Canadian example relevant?

NO!

 

[Kirkhill]

NO!

Oh, what the hell!

YES!

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=mariomike]
since doing so strongly suggests that he has something to hide.
[/quote]
Just like refusing to talk to the police without legal council present.