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I like to see facts here, not idle speculation. Let us just see how this plays out.
U.S. troops shoot at Cdn. diplomats' car in Iraq
- Thread starter Scoobie Newbie
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agreed
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Mea culpa on dinging the driver, waiting out to see more detail...however, my thoughts about taking care coming up on US convoys still stands...you have to really be thinking about what you're doing and why your doing it and think of things from their point of view as well. Lord knows, I've been pretty nervous when some late-model Corolla comes up and plants itself on my arse, then won't move even as a passing opportunity presents itself...waiting for a bang is not pleasant...the relief when the arsehat driver finally passes is significant...especially on White, Violet or Crimson routes!
Perhaps some folks think their "overtake" speed is slow...perhaps the rear sentry didn't think so...waiting for more info as well...
Cheers,
Duey
Perhaps some folks think their "overtake" speed is slow...perhaps the rear sentry didn't think so...waiting for more info as well...
Cheers,
Duey
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you know as far as the whole flag thing is concerned. I wouldn't give a rats ass what flag they showed me. If that's an automatic pass I think the insurgents would definitely be incorporating it into their routine.
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that must take some good eye-sight to see from 100 meters back
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If you miss the Sign the sight of a .50 Traversing around and pointing at your windscreen should be enough to make you back off....
cheers
Josh
cheers
Josh
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...and, once you've read ONE stop sign........
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I see a problem with the picture that 3rd Herd posted: it isn't in both of OUR official languages!!
Warning: Not knowing English (and/or Arabic) is hazardous to your (engine block's) health!!
Al
Warning: Not knowing English (and/or Arabic) is hazardous to your (engine block's) health!!
Al
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Well I almost shot up some FFL guys today they tried to tailgate us in a minivan - hmm White guy with gun swing out the back and they wave :
Duey -- DynCorp drives us off the road... Heck we've had near blue on blues inside "the workplace"
I went to put a burst into a vehicle last week that had a US flag on it -- local driver -- only when I was linign up the gun I saw a US mil in uniform in the back...
You got split seconds to make a choice -- screw up either way and good guys are getting flagged coffins...
I'm hoping the Para 249 and M204G make a bigger impression that the AK's and RPK did...
Duey -- DynCorp drives us off the road... Heck we've had near blue on blues inside "the workplace"
I went to put a burst into a vehicle last week that had a US flag on it -- local driver -- only when I was linign up the gun I saw a US mil in uniform in the back...
You got split seconds to make a choice -- screw up either way and good guys are getting flagged coffins...
I'm hoping the Para 249 and M204G make a bigger impression that the AK's and RPK did...
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http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=44a6c8b5-3862-471e-8993-6a19a86638f6
U.S., Canada trade blame for Iraq shooting incident
Foreign Affairs story casts doubt on U.S. claim of self-defence
Sheldon Alberts
The Ottawa Citizen
Thursday, February 02, 2006
WASHINGTON - Canadian and U.S. authorities traded charges yesterday over who was to blame after a U.S. military convoy opened fire on a car carrying four Canadian diplomats.
Even as the U.S. State Department expressed regret over the friendly fire incident, the Pentagon held to its original claim that the U.S. soldiers believed they were being threatened and acted in self-defence.
Sgt. Doug Anderson, a Pentagon spokesman, said the Canadian vehicle "attempted to pass a U.S. military convoy after ignoring signals to stop" on a road inside Baghdad's heavily fortified Green Zone. "The U.S. convoy defended itself by firing a three-round rifle burst," Sgt. Anderson said.
But officials with Canada's Foreign Affairs Department, and a Canadian diplomat who was travelling inside the car insisted yesterday the shots were fired without warning. They also maintain the car and the convoy were separated by several lanes of traffic and a concrete barrier.
"There are some disagreements about what has occurred. Our officials are clear that they are operating within the rules," prime minister-designate Stephen Harper said in Ottawa.
Gen. Rick Hillier, the chief of the defence staff, contacted U.S. officials yesterday to express his concerns about the shooting "and to make sure such events are avoided in the future," Mr. Harper said.
U.S. Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told reporters in Washington he was aware of the incident, but declined to comment on the details while military investigators reviewed the shooting. "It's being investigated. I don't know anything more than what has been announced," Mr. Rumsfeld said. "I wasn't there. I obviously don't know."
The incident unfolded at about 1 p.m. Tuesday in Baghdad while the Canadian diplomats -- including Stewart Henderson, the charge d'affaires in Iraq -- were travelling from the British residence inside the Green Zone to their own accommodations.
According to the U.S. military, the soldiers signalled for the car to stop, but when the car kept coming, the rear-gunner in the convoy's last vehicle opened fire.
The Pentagon says soldiers are authorized to fire on vehicles if drivers fail to heed hand signals.
Two bullets pierced the engine block, but another hit the windshield and reportedly came within centimetres of striking a passenger. There were no injuries.
"How many warning shots go across a vehicle into the passenger compartment?" Michelle Cameron, a Canadian consular official travelling in the car, asked yesterday on CTV News.
No one in the Canadian vehicle saw any hand signals indicating they were too close to the convoy, the network quoted Ms. Cameron as saying.
According to Canadian officials, the diplomatic vehicle had been following well behind the U.S. convoy and only passed when the convoy pulled to the side of the road behind a waist-high concrete barrier. The Canadians claim the U.S. convoy and the car were separated by several lanes of traffic.
"We are reassured by our team in Baghdad that all appropriate procedures were followed. We are aware there are conflicting stories," said Marie-Christine Lilkoff, a Foreign Affairs spokeswoman.
Canada's diplomatic operations in Iraq are running with only a skeleton staff and the ambassador, John Holmes, is based out of the Canadian Embassy in Amman. Contrary to initial reports, Mr. Holmes was not travelling in the Canadian vehicle.
© The Ottawa Citizen 2006
U.S., Canada trade blame for Iraq shooting incident
Foreign Affairs story casts doubt on U.S. claim of self-defence
Sheldon Alberts
The Ottawa Citizen
Thursday, February 02, 2006
WASHINGTON - Canadian and U.S. authorities traded charges yesterday over who was to blame after a U.S. military convoy opened fire on a car carrying four Canadian diplomats.
Even as the U.S. State Department expressed regret over the friendly fire incident, the Pentagon held to its original claim that the U.S. soldiers believed they were being threatened and acted in self-defence.
Sgt. Doug Anderson, a Pentagon spokesman, said the Canadian vehicle "attempted to pass a U.S. military convoy after ignoring signals to stop" on a road inside Baghdad's heavily fortified Green Zone. "The U.S. convoy defended itself by firing a three-round rifle burst," Sgt. Anderson said.
But officials with Canada's Foreign Affairs Department, and a Canadian diplomat who was travelling inside the car insisted yesterday the shots were fired without warning. They also maintain the car and the convoy were separated by several lanes of traffic and a concrete barrier.
"There are some disagreements about what has occurred. Our officials are clear that they are operating within the rules," prime minister-designate Stephen Harper said in Ottawa.
Gen. Rick Hillier, the chief of the defence staff, contacted U.S. officials yesterday to express his concerns about the shooting "and to make sure such events are avoided in the future," Mr. Harper said.
U.S. Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told reporters in Washington he was aware of the incident, but declined to comment on the details while military investigators reviewed the shooting. "It's being investigated. I don't know anything more than what has been announced," Mr. Rumsfeld said. "I wasn't there. I obviously don't know."
The incident unfolded at about 1 p.m. Tuesday in Baghdad while the Canadian diplomats -- including Stewart Henderson, the charge d'affaires in Iraq -- were travelling from the British residence inside the Green Zone to their own accommodations.
According to the U.S. military, the soldiers signalled for the car to stop, but when the car kept coming, the rear-gunner in the convoy's last vehicle opened fire.
The Pentagon says soldiers are authorized to fire on vehicles if drivers fail to heed hand signals.
Two bullets pierced the engine block, but another hit the windshield and reportedly came within centimetres of striking a passenger. There were no injuries.
"How many warning shots go across a vehicle into the passenger compartment?" Michelle Cameron, a Canadian consular official travelling in the car, asked yesterday on CTV News.
No one in the Canadian vehicle saw any hand signals indicating they were too close to the convoy, the network quoted Ms. Cameron as saying.
According to Canadian officials, the diplomatic vehicle had been following well behind the U.S. convoy and only passed when the convoy pulled to the side of the road behind a waist-high concrete barrier. The Canadians claim the U.S. convoy and the car were separated by several lanes of traffic.
"We are reassured by our team in Baghdad that all appropriate procedures were followed. We are aware there are conflicting stories," said Marie-Christine Lilkoff, a Foreign Affairs spokeswoman.
Canada's diplomatic operations in Iraq are running with only a skeleton staff and the ambassador, John Holmes, is based out of the Canadian Embassy in Amman. Contrary to initial reports, Mr. Holmes was not travelling in the Canadian vehicle.
© The Ottawa Citizen 2006
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Canadian Consular Official Michelle Cameron "how many warning shots go across a vehicle into the passenger compartment?"
Well one might argue how many people try to pass a US military convoy in Baghdad, of all places!?
"Common sense is not so common" - Voltaire
Well one might argue how many people try to pass a US military convoy in Baghdad, of all places!?
"Common sense is not so common" - Voltaire
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I believe the Canadians are saying that they passed an American convoy that pulled over. The Canadians also say that they were across muliti-lanes and there was a waste high barrier between them.
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Well keep in mind there is NO REQUIREMENT to fire into the engine compartment - if they had authority/justification to fire - they coudl have simply shot into the vehicle...
Second I'll believe a politician over a soldier when hell freezes over - they sound like clueless wastes -
Finally who the FUCK runs soft skins for politico's in IRAQ?
JUGFUCK on DFAIT.
Second I'll believe a politician over a soldier when hell freezes over - they sound like clueless wastes -
Finally who the FUCK runs soft skins for politico's in IRAQ?
JUGFUCK on DFAIT.
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Listening to a Canadian politician justify something is like listening to the kid in school that no one likes becasue he's never wrong...
When soldiers start ot comment I'll pay a bit more attention...Otherwise, no thanks, if I want fiction I'll go to Chapters and buy a book.
Cheers
Slim
When soldiers start ot comment I'll pay a bit more attention...Otherwise, no thanks, if I want fiction I'll go to Chapters and buy a book.
Cheers
Slim
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well I obvisouly dont know what really happened but Im guessing it was probably alittle bit of both sides storys. Perhaps the convoy did pull over or whatever and then the Car was going very fast towards them or did something to provoke the attack however small or large.
niether side is going to tell the "whole" truth. so one has to pick through both stories and come out with a somewhat better picture of the whole story. If you think either side is being completly honest then you are niave. which is why i dont belive either sides story as they are both exagerated to make them look better/innocent/right, whatever.
niether side is going to tell the "whole" truth. so one has to pick through both stories and come out with a somewhat better picture of the whole story. If you think either side is being completly honest then you are niave. which is why i dont belive either sides story as they are both exagerated to make them look better/innocent/right, whatever.
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Chopper - actually both sides could be tellign the truth as they saw it.
The US Army could have attampted to flag down the vehicle and then fired warnign shots then a burst into the vehicle (and anyone who has fired on auto or burst know that the rounds DO NOT go into the same hole so the dispersion of some into the engine and some into the passenger compartment is to be expected -- anytime a weapon is fired it is lethal force regardless where it is aimed.
The Cdn diplomats may not have seen any of the Army's efforts and thought they where fired at for no reason...
The US Army could have attampted to flag down the vehicle and then fired warnign shots then a burst into the vehicle (and anyone who has fired on auto or burst know that the rounds DO NOT go into the same hole so the dispersion of some into the engine and some into the passenger compartment is to be expected -- anytime a weapon is fired it is lethal force regardless where it is aimed.
The Cdn diplomats may not have seen any of the Army's efforts and thought they where fired at for no reason...
A nice balanced reply Kevin B - I notice some posters are slamming the Canadian diplomatic service personnel involved - note: diplomatic service not politicians. I'd say the media are making this into a bigger thing than the individuals concerned did. They came forward when they were said to be in the wrong - if i got the story right.... bad day for all concerned - but no need for posters to slam diplomatic personnel...
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