U.S. troops shoot at Cdn. diplomats' car in Iraq

[Scoobie Newbie]

I think I'd get a new driver.

U.S. troops shoot at Cdn. diplomats' car in Iraq
CTV.ca News Staff

CTV News has learned Canadian diplomats -- including the ambassador to Iraq -- had a close call in Baghdad on Tuesday, coming under friendly fire from U.S. troops.

The soldiers opened fire on the vehicle, apparently thinking a suicide bomber might be driving it. They shot into the car's engine block.

None of the four passengers in the car or its driver were injured.

CTV's Tom Clark, reporting from Washington, said it appears the Canadian vehicle was travelling alone while a U.S. convoy was on the road and failed to respond to U.S. troops.

They first tried hand signals, which didn't cause the car to stop, then shot over the vehicle. That also failed. "They then put three shots into the engine block," he said.

The incident happened in what's known as the Green Zone, a heavily fortified area in the centre of Baghdad where coalition and Iraqi government offices are located.

The Canadian ambassador to Iraq is John Holmes, who presented his credentials back in September. Holmes also serves as ambassador to Jordan where he is based. Canada does not yet have an embassy in Iraq.

 

[KevinB]

Way to go MSG's...  :

One car?

IMHO they should fire whomever is making the security arrnagements (cough MSG).

Having a wee bit of experience in the field I feel they are wholeheartedly unqualified for this.
(and I think Big Red, Teddy49 and others can verifiy that)

 

[Big Red]

To get shot at IN the IZ you must have ZERO situational awareness.

Typically high level diplomats travel with several escort vehicles, whether they are in the IZ or not. 

With security, you get what you pay for.

"Canada does not yet have an embassy in Iraq."
Maybe they should take down the sign that says CANADIAN EMBASSY then....  :

 

[teddy49]

When the ambassador came to visit our compound, he was brought by the same crew that does the PSD for the British Embassy.  All Brit expats, all very professional.  I would have assumed that he would have made similar arrangements for this journey, but I don't know what he would have done in the IZ.  But like Big Red said, you have to pretty stupid to get shot at in the IZ.  BW is about the only crew that doesn't take their game face off when they get inside the wire.  That doesn't make them many friends, but I don't think they care either.

 

[Good2Golf]

Agree with EXTREMELY low SA on driver's part...WTF was he thinking?  I understood a Mission was in the process of being set up as we speak.  Sounds like new detail is required...or is there an MSG there now?  Kev, you seem to have a cough there, buddy.  Better get that checked out!  At least the Americans plinked the motor...good on them for good fire discipline...could have been worse, and from the sounds of it, understandably so.

Heck, I even slow down driving past Kev...partly out of pity, partly out of curiosity to see what he bought from the Hadji's today...

Cheers,
Duey

 

[COBRA-6]

How did they fail to understand the warning shots?? I'm very cautious overtaking any armed convoy, making sure that I make eye contact with the rear sentry first, and thats' in a SUV with big ISAF stickers on it...

Surfs with N/S wipers are another story however...

Maybe now they'll consider private contractors... or at least smarten up before they start taking rounds through the windscreen...

 

[KevinB]

In all fairness the paracord on the windsheild wipers worked fine  ;D

But - we where VERY careful behind the German convoy...

We almost shot Italians today (morons) hmm gun the Prada at a checkpoint while we (QRF) are out visiting.. :




IIRC Armour Group was doing security for the Embassy site - and loaned a PSD team to the Cdn Embassador (to Jordan) while he visited.
I believe from info MP's told me that the MSG "force" is guarding the consul.

 

[Mineguy]

Im not at all suprised....these things happen daily in iraq! I bet there was never a word about the US convoy that shot a small clearly obvious british convoy escorting trucks off the road while it approached....that wont be in the news but it happened where i was! ....we would never even dare to approach a US convoy or even pass them to or from work. It was a given that if you tried to overtake them or anything else to freak them out and there were rounds comng in!

 

[Devlin]

Can someone clarify what MSG stands for? I am betting it's not Monosodium Glutamate

Or is this a case of if you have to ask the question, you don't need to know the answer?

edited for spelling

 

[Good2Golf]

Devlin,

MSG = Military Security Guard; "guard" as in a detail or unit of MPs who are seconded to DFAIT and posted as security detail to Canadian embassies around the world.

Cheers,
Duey

 

[Big Red]

Im not at all suprised....these things happen daily in iraq!

Uhhh, not to diplomatic teams in the IZ they don't.  Typically, if somebody is firing warning shots at you, you have done something wrong.  In my experience, if you want to roll around in a sedan and play like a local, don't expect the coalition forces to treat you any differently until they have ID'd you.

ETA:

The CBC article says that 4 diplomats were in the car at the time.  Doesn't leave much room for the ambassador's PSD team does it....

 

[teddy49]

When the ambassador came to visit us there were no MSGs in evidence.  His protection was Control Risks Group.  Again as Big Red said, it's very rare for vehicles to get lit up inside the IZ.  My personal theory is that it wasn't the army at all, but BW who has their own M1114 hmmv's that they run with some of the WPPS convoy's.  Like I said in my earlier post, those guys run in the IZ like everyone else runs outside the IZ.

 

[baboon6]

John Holmes... Damn I thought he was dead.

 

[Devlin]

Devlin,

MSG = Military Security Guard; "guard" as in a detail or unit of MPs who are seconded to DFAIT and posted as security detail to Canadian embassies around the world.

Cheers,
Duey

Thanks Duey - you learn something new everyday.

 

[Mineguy]

Yup! I could see how driving around in a sedan could cause problems in some ways when coupled with other factors like ignoring warning shots! I was glad we had 10-15 vehicle white toyota landrcruisers convoys all with big 0.5 meter big mine clearance signs all over them!....even then though we still watched it!....

 

[Good2Golf]

So do we know if it was a BW convoy that lit them up?  I've come up on the back of Dyncorp in close traffic and had the tub gunner swing the door open to a) see who was there, and b) let them know not to mess with them...aside from driving a Grey sub like half of the guys ahead of me, I spun the Camp Julian "cold filtered" water bottle around so the Cdn flag was showing and gave the tub gunner a thumbs up...he nodded, closed the door and I slacked off a bit...let some more room for some locals to squeeze in and try and pass them around the Blue Mosque circle... :

I can't for the life of me imagine what the driver was thinking (or wasn't apparently)...especially as a car, and not the standard Suburban or armoured Land Cruiser...the folks are frikkin lucky they didn't get a burst of M249 in the windshield!!! *edit: I stand corrected, apparently they did...one narrowly missing one of the pax.*

Cheers,
Duey

 

[SHELLDRAKE!!]

CTV news just did a spiel on it and apparently in their defence, the Canadian diplomats had a canadian patch or sticker on their dash so they felt they were safe.

I think even the most uninformed of Canadians knows that if they were to approach an armed american convoy, maybee a little eye contact with the rear sentry might be prudent.

 

[tomahawk6]

This was the first thread I read this morning. Just the title made me wince, I hate it when we screw up. But as I read the responses I was very pleased to see a professional discussion of the event rather than a bash the yanks thread. I think this is an example of why I like this forum fairness and professional discussion.

 

[Cannoneer No. 4]

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/02/01/diplomats060201.htmlU.S. fired on Canadian diplomats without warning, envoy says

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/02/01/1420502-cp.htmlU.S. regrets friendly fire incident

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Well I guess unless you were there we really won't know the truth.  I would like to think that the shooter followed the rules of escalation.