• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

U.S. Politics 2018

Status
Not open for further replies.
An interesting para from the indictment. I guess they wanted Trump to be president and then didn't want him the same time. But seriously, the ultimate goal was sew discord. The results of Trump getting elected would be of no concern to them. It was designed to cause trouble and so it did. The current investigations are sucking the life out of Washington.

57. After the election of Donald Trump in or around November 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators used false U.S. personas to organize and coordinate U.S. political rallies in support of then president-elect Trump, while simultaneously using other false U.S. personas to organize and coordinate U.S. political rallies protesting the results of the 2016 U.S. presidential election. For example, in or around November 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators organized a rally in New York through one group designed to show your support for President-Elect Donald Trump held on or about November 12, 2016. At the same time, Defendants and their co-conspirators, through another group, organized a rally in New York called Trump is NOT my President held on or about November 12, 2016. Similarly, Defendants and their co-conspirators organized a rally entitled Charlotte Against Trump in Charlotte, North Carolina, held on or about November 19, 2016.
 
Rob Goldman, vice president of ads at Facebook, took to Twitter on Friday to applaud special counsel Robert Mueller's ongoing investigation of Russian trolls on social media. He also sought to clarify what he perceived as misconceptions surrounding Russian meddling in the U.S. political process.

Rob Goldman
The majority of the Russian ad spend happened AFTER the election.  We shared that fact, but very few outlets have covered it because it doesn’t align with the main media narrative of Tump and the election.  https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2017/10/hard-questions-russian-ads-delivered-to-congress/ …

The main goal of the Russian propaganda and misinformation effort is to divide America by using our institutions, like free speech and social media, against us. It has stoked fear and hatred amongst Americans.  It is working incredibly well. We are quite divided as a nation.

The single best demonstration of Russia's true motives is the Houston anti-islamic protest. Americans were literally puppeted into the streets by trolls who organized both the sides of protest.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/17/facebooks-vp-of-ads-says-russian-meddling-aimed-to-divide-us.html

And in related news....

Why Labour remains haunted by the ghosts of Soviet past
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/labour-remains-haunted-ghosts-soviet-past/

Czech agent claims 15 Labour MPs met spies as Ken Livingstone and John McDonnell deny claims
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/17/czech-agent-claims-15-labour-mps-met-spies-ken-livingstone-john/

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.  Nothing has changed at least since the days of Elizabeth's Cecil.  Or perhaps Ignatius.  Or Felix de Guzman.  Or Winfrid of Crediton.

Or Soros, or HMG, or the CIA.  Influence operations are as old as government.

And Joe McCarthy wasn't wrong.



 
It really is self-righteously ludicrous for Americans to be "shocked, shocked" at Russian election interference.  CIA has done it for yonks:

Russia Isn’t the Only One Meddling in Elections. We Do It, Too.
...
At least once the hand of the United States reached boldly into a Russian election. American fears that Boris Yeltsin would be defeated for re-election as president in 1996 by an old-fashioned Communist led to an overt and covert effort to help him, urged on by President Bill Clinton. It included an American push for a $10 billion International Monetary Fund loan to Russia four months before the voting and a team of American political consultants (though some Russians scoffed when they took credit for the Yeltsin win)...
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/17/sunday-review/russia-isnt-the-only-one-meddling-in-elections-we-do-it-too.html

Plus from 1984!

C.I.A. HAS LONG SOUGHT TO SWAY FOREIGN VOTERS
http://www.nytimes.com/1984/05/13/world/cia-has-long-sought-to-sway-foreign-voters.html

Read about the mandate of the first CIA covert ops organization, the Office of Policy Coordination (nice cover name, eh?) created in 1948--at top p. 3 PDF:

..."support of indigenous anti-Communist elements in threatened countries of the free world"...
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA%20AND%20NAZI%20WAR%20CRIM.%20AND%20COL.%20CHAP.%201-10%2C%20DRAFT%20WORKING%20PAPER_0008.pdf

More on OPC here (until 1952 OPC was separate from Office of Special Operations [OSO] the clandestine intelligence collection--spook--branch; the two were then amalgamated as Directorate of Plans):
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80R01731R001100120001-0.pdf

See also p. 7 PDF here:
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/1973-06-01.pdf

Mark
Ottawa

 
The CIA has done far worse than interfere in elections.

Where’s that secret squirrel emoji?
 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Thanks for making my point......Mr. Sanders winning the Democrat head means no President Trump.  Be kinda stupid of "dem Ruskies"....no?

I'm not so sure about that. Sanders was so far to the left that I'm sure that many Democrats would have voted for Trump rather than have Sanders in the White House.
 
Retired AF Guy said:
Sanders was so far to the left that I'm sure that many Democrats would have voted for Trump rather than have Sanders in the White House.

QUOTE

12 percent of people who voted for Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., in the 2016 Democratic presidential primaries voted for President Trump in the general election.
https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds

"A lot of Bernie Sanders supporters weren’t big fans of Clinton.* So Stein campaigning on the idea** that Clinton and Trump were similar made it harder for Clinton to win over those voters — even if Sanders voters didn’t vote for Stein, they may have stayed home out of disgust."
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/jill-stein-democratic-spoiler-or-scapegoat/

*About A Third Of Bernie Sanders’s Supporters Still Aren’t Backing Hillary Clinton
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/about-a-third-of-bernie-sanders-supporters-still-arent-backing-hillary-clinton/

**Green Party’s Jill Stein: What We Fear from Donald Trump, We Have Already Seen from Hillary Clinton
https://www.democracynow.org/2016/6/9/green_partys_jill_stein_what_we

Indictment: Russians also tried to help Bernie Sanders, Jill Stein presidential campaigns
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/17/indictment-russians-also-tried-help-bernie-sanders-jill-stein-presidential-campaigns/348051002/
"Russian nationals and businesses also worked to boost the campaigns of Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders and Green party nominee Jill Stein in an effort to damage Democrat Hillary Clinton."

"Jill Stein is now officially the Ralph Nader of 2016."

Stein votes/Trump margin:
MI: 51,463/10,704
PA: 49,678/46,765
WI: 31,006/22,177


END QUOTE
 
Trump has called Russian electoral meddling a "made-up story," a "hoax," and that when Putin denies any Russian involvement, Trump "really believe(s) that when he tells me that, he means it."
And for something that clearly  never happened, Trump is now criticizing Obama for not stopping Russian meddling.  :stars:


What are those signs of being a sociopath again?  Oh right....

Manipulative
Deceitful (oh go on, let's just call it compulsive lying)
Lack of empathy
Relationship difficulties
Callous
Hostile
Refusal to take responsibility
Impulsive
Risky behaviour
                                  :pop:
 
Journeyman said:
What are those signs of being a sociopath again?  Oh right....

Manipulative
Deceitful (oh go on, let's just call it compulsive lying)
Lack of empathy
Relationship difficulties
Callous
Hostile
Refusal to take responsibility
Impulsive
Risky behaviour
                                  :pop:

I'm not a brain specialist, but it looks like some may fall on the Psychopath side.
 

Attachments

  • 23956psycho_chart.jpg
    23956psycho_chart.jpg
    79.2 KB · Views: 187
Can someone tell me where to get a new Callousity Meter?  I seem to have misplaced mine.  Preferably looking for one in SI units.

After all, psychology is a real science.....
 
kkwd said:

QUOTE

Trump cites a misleading Obama quote to say Russia didn’t interfere in the election
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/20/17032210/trump-obama-rigged-election-russia
Obama was talking about voter fraud — not Russia.

END QUOTE
 
mariomike said:
Trump cites a misleading Obama quote to say Russia didn’t interfere in the election
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/20/17032210/trump-obama-rigged-election-russia
Obama was talking about voter fraud — not Russia.

Did he not say that there was no rigging of the election whatsoever? Why would he exclude Russian interference, was he hiding something?
 
PPCLI Guy said:

Exactly, you figured it out. President Obama made a laughable attempt to try to keep this whole Russia mess under wraps. After all it was under his administration and he decided he would try to blame it on the next guy.
 
kkwd said:
President Obama made a laughable attempt to try to keep this whole Russia mess under wraps.

Why does President Trump seem to lash out at everyone - except Russian President Vladimir Putin?

President Obama personally warned Putin against messing with the election, imposed sanctions on Russian individuals and entities, kicked out 35 Russian diplomats and closed two of the Kremlin's compounds in the United States.

Trump, in comparison, still has not imposed sanctions designed to punish election meddling by Moscow.

On October 7, 2016 the Department Of Homeland Security and Office of the Director of National Intelligence warned that American democracy was under attack by Russia,
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/10/07/joint-statement-department-homeland-security-and-office-director-national

In September 2016, the Obama administration gathered leaders of both parties for a secret intelligence briefing on Russia’s operation to influence the election.

President Obama’s team “worried that doing so unilaterally and without bipartisan congressional backing just weeks before the election would make Obama vulnerable to charges that he was using intelligence for political purposes.” But Republican leaders, especially Mitch McConnell, refused. McConnell, the Washington Post reported, “raised doubts about the underlying intelligence and made clear to the administration that he would consider any effort by the White House to challenge the Russians publicly an act of partisan politics.”
https://www.google.ca/search?rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-CA%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&dcr=0&biw=1280&bih=603&ei=KYONWrncGIG3jwTR3rPQBw&q=raised+doubts+about+the+underlying+intelligence+and+made+clear+to+the+administration+that+he+would+consider+any+effort+by+the+White+House+to+challenge+the+Russians+publicly+an+act+of&oq=raised+doubts+about+the+underlying+intelligence+and+made+clear+to+the+administration+that+he+would+consider+any+effort+by+the+White+House+to+challenge+the+Russians+publicly+an+act+of&gs_l=psy-ab.12...0.0.0.841.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c..64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.hoip9MnFmCY

There’s a defensible argument that Obama should have done more to respond to the Russian attack. But there isn’t a defensible Republican argument that Obama should have done more. Republicans are the reason Obama didn’t do more.

QUOTE

During the election, Trump welcomed Russian efforts to help his campaign. His top aides eagerly accepted a meeting from a Russian agent promising to give them campaign dirt. His confidante, Roger Stone, seemed to have advance knowledge of Russian email theft. Trump openly called for Russia to steal more of his opponent’s emails, and a Republican operative claiming to work on his behalf tried to obtain emails stolen by Russians. Trump aided and abetted the crime by repeatedly touting the importance of the hacked emails, and denying Russian involvement.

Even after the election, when the intelligence community had satisfied all doubts that Russia consciously aided Trump’s campaign, Trump continued to deny it. “I don’t believe they interfered,” he told Time in December. The hacking “could be Russia. And it could be China. And it could be some guy in his home in New Jersey.” Last November, Trump told reporters, “Every time [Putin] sees me he says, ‘I didn’t do that,’ and I really believe that when he tells me that, he means it.” And when Obama did announce sanctions to retaliate against Russian interference after the election, Trump communicated through various back channels that he intended to weaken them once he took office.

Trump was an eager partner to Russia’s efforts on his behalf: magnifying the value of their attack, assisting the cover-up of the crime, and undermining the punishment of it. The GOP Establishment was an eager, or at least willing, partner to Trump’s campaign, and its partnership was the primary factor preventing a stronger response to the Russian attack.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/trump-why-didnt-obama-stop-the-russia-hacking-i-abetted.html

END QUOTE

Trump is taunting Obama for not doing more to stop him.


 
Chris Pook said:
After all, psychology is a real science.....
Seriously?  Your dismissals are normally more...useful -- informed even (and hence, worth reading even in a routinely mindless politics thread).

While psychology seldom provides an unambiguous black/white answer, it's still used quite frequently -- and credibly -- in things like criminal trials, post-deployment evaluations, etc.  It could potentially provide some insights into Trump's behaviour.
 
Journeyman said:
Seriously?  Your dismissals are normally more...useful -- informed even (and hence, worth reading even in a routinely mindless politics thread).

While psychology seldom provides an unambiguous black/white answer, it's still used quite frequently -- and credibly -- in things like criminal trials, post-deployment evaluations, etc.  It could potentially provide some insights into Trump's behaviour.

Sorry.  But I'm tired.  That's why I try (even as I fail) to keep out of the discussions.

:cheers:
 
kkwd said:
Exactly, you figured it out. President Obama made a laughable attempt to try to keep this whole Russia mess under wraps. After all it was under his administration and he decided he would try to blame it on the next guy.

:rofl:
 
Another one's down, another one bites the dust:

"Lengthy posts and fully quoted articles are posted here. Link to these large posts in the regular boards."
https://milnet.ca/forums/threads/127474.0.html


Robert Mueller just flipped his third former Trump aide

Rick Gates — Paul Manafort’s right-hand man — is now cooperating with the Russia investigation.
By Andrew Prokopandrew@vox.com Updated Feb 23, 2018, 4:00pm EST

Special counsel Robert Mueller just flipped another former Trump staffer. Rick Gates — Paul Manafort’s longtime junior business partner and a 2016 Trump campaign aide — agreed to a plea deal in Mueller’s investigation Friday afternoon in which he’ll cooperate with the probe.

Article Link

Actual Indictment Against Gates
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top