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Turmoil in Libya (2011) and post-Gaddafi blowback

recceguy said:
I'm sure there's a valid point somewhere in your post, but I'm missing it. Do you think you could proof read and spellcheck your posts before hitting send. It'll make it much easier to decipher what you're saying.

Thx :salute:
Thx, I'll do my best.

My main point is that normally armed force is used to get the other party to agree to your terms.

In this case, a party that claims to have legitimate status, The African Union, is saying that they have negotiated a settlement, that The government and at least some of the rebels have agreed to. They have asked for a ceasefire.

Nothing on the diplomatic  front seems to be happening.

Hypothetically speaking, If I were the Col who would I have to deal with if I wanted out?

INormally the side with the upper hand makes the conditions known.

If I sound confused, I am.

 
Kalatzi said:
Thx, I'll do my best.

My main point is that normally armed force is used to get the other party to agree to your terms.

In this case, a party that claims to have legitimate status, The African Union, is saying that they have negotiated a settlement, that The government and at least some of the rebels have agreed to. They have asked for a ceasefire.

Nothing on the diplomatic  front seems to be happening.

Hypothetically speaking, If I were the Col who would I have to deal with if I wanted out?

INormally the side with the upper hand makes the conditions known.

If I sound confused, I am.


The reason "nothing ... seems to be happening" is that French President Nicolas Sarkozy, who faces an election, is still behind in the polls. This war, Srakozy's war, has an aim: to re-elect Nicolas Sarkozy. When the war serves that purpose it can end, ditto French involvement in Côte d'Ivoire.
 
Kalatzi said:
In this case, a party that claims to have legitimate status, The African Union, is saying that they have negotiated a settlement, that The government and at least some of the rebels have agreed to. They have asked for a ceasefire.

Nothing on the diplomatic  front seems to be happening.

Hypothetically speaking, If I were the Col who would I have to deal with if I wanted out?

INormally the side with the upper hand makes the conditions known.

If I sound confused, I am.

Any ceasefire, while dubious based on the last few announced "ceasefires"
will have a major stumbling block.. i.e. A loon and his umbrella that doesn't realize the curtain has fallen.

The Councils demand
http://www.voanews.com/english/news/AU-Leaders-to-Mediate-Libyan-Crisis-119559349.html
....An African Union delegation, with leaders from South Africa, Mauritania, Mali, Uganda and Congo, says it wants an immediate end to all hostilities. It also is seeking to provide a regular supply of humanitarian aid and the beginning of a dialogue between the Libyan government and its opponents. The African envoys say Libya also should plan for a transition period ushering in reforms.

Such talk has had little effect on rebel leaders, who maintain they will not settle for anything less than Colonel Gadhafi's departure.

The African Union and Turkey, which is also pushing a diplomatic solution to end the conflict, are widely viewed with suspicion in eastern Libya as being too close to Colonel Gadhafi and the oil wealth his government represents......


NATO and the US demand:
http://iipdigital.usembassy.gov/st/english/article/2011/04/20110411161731elrem0.5065882.html
11 April 2011
Clinton Says Cease-Fire in Libya Is Essential
By Merle David Kellerhals Jr.
Staff Writer

Washington – Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton says that a cease-fire in Libya between government military forces and opposition forces is essential.

“We want to see the Libyan regime forces pull back from the areas that they have forcibly entered,” Clinton said April 11 at a joint press conference. “We want to see a resumption of water, electricity and other services to cities that have been brutalized” by the forces of Libyan leader Muammar Qadhafi.

“We want to see humanitarian assistance reach the people of Libya. These terms are non-negotiable,” Clinton said.

An African Union peace mission led by South African President Jacob Zuma was in the Libyan capital of Tripoli April 10 to meet with the Qadhafi government, and was scheduled to meet with opposition leaders in Benghazi April 11. Clinton said the United States was awaiting a full briefing from the AU delegation on what was achieved and what the opposing sides would agree to support in the two-month-old civil strife.

Clinton told reporters that in addition to the other conditions — a cease-fire, a return of basic services for citizens, and humanitarian assistance — the United States believes that “there needs to be a transition that reflects the will of the Libyan people and the departure of Qadhafi from power and from Libya.

The AU:
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/04/2011410232126366150.html
...........The committee said in a statement that it had decided to go along with a road map adopted in March, which calls for an end to hostilities, "diligent conveying of humanitarian aid" and "dialogue between the Libyan parties".

Speaking in Tripoli, Ramtane Lamamra, the AU Commissioner for Peace and Security, said the issue of Gaddafi's departure had come up in the talks but declined to give details.

"There was some discussion on this but I cannot report on this. It has to remain confidential," he said.

"It's up to the Libyan people to chose their leaders democratically."....



 
Walking softly works a lot better when you actually have a big stick in the first place. How the UK and France are going to pony up the vast expeditionary force to secure their oil interests will also be an interesting exercise for the reader...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nato-runs-short-on-some-munitions-in-libya/2011/04/15/AF3O7ElD_print.html

NATO runs short on some munitions in Libya

By Karen DeYoung and Greg Jaffe, Friday, April 15, 8:46 PM
Less than a month into the Libyan conflict, NATO is running short of precision bombs, highlighting the limitations of Britain, France and other European countries in sustaining even a relatively small military action over an extended period of time, according to senior NATO and U.S. officials.

The shortage of European munitions, along with the limited number of aircraft available, has raised doubts among some officials about whether the United States can continue to avoid returning to the air campaign if Libyan leader Moammar Gaddafi hangs on to power for several more months.

U.S. strike aircraft that participated in the early stage of the operation, before the United States relinquished command to NATO and assumed what President Obama called a “supporting” role, have remained in the theater “on 12-hour standby” with crews “constantly briefed on the current situation,” a NATO official said.

So far, the NATO commander has not requested their deployment. Several U.S. military officials said they anticipated being called back into the fight, although a senior administration official said he expected other countries to announce “in the next few days” that they would contribute aircraft equipped with the laser-guided munitions.

Opposition spokesmen in the western Libyan city of Misurata, under steady bombardment by government shelling, said Friday that Gaddafi’s forces had used cluster bombs, and Human Rights Watch said its representatives on the ground had witnessed the explosion of cluster munitions in civilian areas there. The Libyan government denied the weapons had been used.

A spokesman for the Misurata City Council appealed for NATO to send ground troops to secure the port that is the besieged city’s only remaining humanitarian lifeline.

The opposition has also repeatedly called for an increase in NATO airstrikes. The six countries conducting the air attacks, led by Britain and France, were unsuccessful at a meeting this week in Berlin in persuading more alliance members to join them.

NATO officials said that their operational tempo has not decreased since the United States relinquished command of the Libya operation and withdrew its strike aircraft at the beginning of April. More planes, they said, would not necessarily result immediately in more strike missions.

But, they said, the current bombing rate by the participating nations is not sustainable. “The reason we need more capability isn’t because we aren’t hitting what we see — it’s so that we can sustain the ability to do so. One problem is flight time, the other is munitions,” said another official, one of several who were not authorized to discuss the issue on the record.

European arsenals of laser-guided bombs, the NATO weapon of choice in the Libyan campaign, have been quickly depleted, officials said. Although the United States has significant stockpiles, its munitions do not fit on the British- and French-made planes that have flown the bulk of the missions.

Britain and France have each contributed about 20 strike aircraft to the campaign. Belgium, Norway, Denmark and Canada have each contributed six — all of them U.S.-manufactured and compatible with U.S. weaponry.

Since the end of March, more than 800 strike missions have been flown, with U.S. aircraft conducting only three, targeting static Libyan air defense installations. The United States still conducts about 25 percent of the overall sorties over Libya, largely intelligence, jamming and refueling missions.

Other NATO countries, along with the United Arab Emirates, Qatar and Jordan, have contributed planes to enforcing a no-fly zone over Libya to prevent Gaddafi’s use of airpower, but so far have declined to participate in the strike missions.

After the Berlin meeting, NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rassmussen said that 10 more aircraft were needed and that he was confident they would be supplied. A U.S. official said that Italy — which earlier in the week said it was not interested — may contribute planes to the ground attack mission, and that the Arab participants might also do so.

But with Gaddafi’s forces and the rebel army locked in a stalemate, Obama has resisted calls from opposition leaders, and some hardline lawmakers in this country, to move U.S. warplanes back into a leading role.

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and other have called on Obama to redeploy U.S. AC-130 gunships, which are considered more effective over populated areas.

Although the gunships flew several missions early in the operation, Gen. Carter Ham, who commanded the mission before it was turned over to NATO, said last week that they were frequently grounded because of weather and other concerns.

The slow-moving aircraft, which flew as low as 4,000 feet over Libya, are also considerably more vulnerable than jet fighters to surface-to-air missiles. While much of Libya’s stationary air defenses have been destroyed, Ham said Gaddafi was believed to have about 20,000 shoulder-held SAMS at the beginning of the conflict, and “most” of them are still unaccounted for.

Concerns that supplies of jet-launched precision bombs are growing short in Europe have reignited long-standing controversies over both burden-sharing and compatibility within NATO. While allied jets have largely followed the U.S. lead and converted to precision munitions over the last decade, they have struggled to keep pace, according to senior U.S. military officials.

Libya “has not been a very big war. If [the Europeans] would run out of these munitions this early in such a small operation, you have to wonder what kind of war they were planning on fighting,” said John Pike, director of GlobalSecurity.org, a defense think tank. “Maybe they were just planning on using their air force for air shows.”

Despite U.S. badgering, European allies have been slow in some cases to modify their planes and other weapons systems so they can accommodate U.S. bombs. Retooling these fighter jets so that they are compatible with U.S. systems requires money, and all European militaries have faced significant cuts in recent years.

Typically, the British and French militaries buy munitions in batches and stockpile them. When arsenals start to run low, factories must be retooled and production lines restarted to replace the diminished stock, all of which can take time and additional money, said Elizabeth Quintana, an aerospace analyst at the Royal United Service Institute in London.

deyoungk@washpost.com

jaffeg@washpost.com

Correspondent Simon Denyer in Tripoli contributed to this report.
 
link


Britain's William Hague says UK will send military advisers to Benghazi to help Libya rebels

By David Stringer,Frances D'Emilio, The Associated Press | The Canadian Press – 1 hour 22 minutes ago

LONDON - Britain said Tuesday it will send a team of up 20 senior military officers to Libya to help organize the country's haphazard opposition forces.

Foreign Secretary William Hague said the military advisers would join a group of British diplomats already co-operating with rebel leaders in Benghazi.

The decision by Britain's National Security Council to deploy the military team comes as international allies search for ways to help the opposition to break their military stalemate with Moammar Gadhafi's forces.

Britain has said it would not become involved in directly supplying weapons to Libya's rebels; it has already sent non-lethal support, such as 1,000 sets of body armour and 100 satellite phones.
Hague insisted the advisers would not be involved in supplying weapons to the rebels, or in assisting their attacks on Gadhafi's forces.

(...)
 
They are already running short of munitions. Hrad to mount an independent campaign on a shoe string budget.Maybe the US tax payers will loan them some JDAM's. ::)
 
Weren't "military advisers" the fist step in Vietnam. I am starting to get the feeling that many of us are looking at our next deployment; Blue helmet or not.
 
                          shared in accordance with provisions of the Copyright Act


Brussels Monday 18 April 2011 17.25 BST

Libya conflict: EU awaits UN approval for deployment of ground troops
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/18/libya-conflict-eu-deployment-ground-troops

European member states poised to send 1,000 soldiers to besieged rebel city of Misrata to assist relief effort

The EU has drawn up a "concept of operations" for the deployment of military forces in Libya, but needs UN approval for what would be the riskiest and most controversial mission undertaken by Brussels.

The armed forces, numbering no more than 1,000, would be deployed to secure the delivery of aid supplies, would not be engaged in a combat role but would be authorised to fight if they or their humanitarian wards were threatened. "It would be to secure sea and land corridors inside the country," said an EU official.

The decision to prepare the mission, dubbed Eufor Libya, was taken by the 27 governments at the beginning of April. In recent days, diplomats from the member states have signed a 61-page document on the concept of operations, which rehearses various scenarios for the mission in and around Libya, such as securing port areas, aid delivery corridors, loading and unloading ships, providing naval escorts, and discussing the military assets that would be required.

The planning has taken place inside the office of Catherine Ashton, the EU's foreign and security policy chief. Officials are working on an "A-plan", the operational instructions that would specify the size of the force, its equipment and makeup, and the rules of engagement.

Diplomats and officials said this would not be finalised unless a request for an EU military mission came from the UN body the Office for the Co-ordination of Humanitarian Affairs (Ocha).

Valerie Amos, the head of Ocha, has privately told EU leaders she is reluctant to make the request and wants to explore all civilian options for the aid operation before seeking military help.

Amos said on Monday the Libyan government has promised the UN access to the besieged rebel city of Misrata, although they had not guaranteed a ceasefire during such a mission. She was in talks with the Libyan prime minister in Tripoli on Sunday and said she would send a team to the city of 300,000 as quickly as possible, adding that she was "deeply concerned" about the safety of civilians.

The EU has established an operations headquarters in Rome under the command of an Italian rear-admiral as part of its plan for a military deployment to Libya. Ashton has written to Ban Ki Moon, the UN secretary-general, offering the military assets, but the overture has been declined.

"The operation is agreed. It's ready to go when we get the nod from the UN," said the EU official. But behind the scenes in Brussels, there is much ambivalence as well as attempts at point-scoring between the bigger member states.

Diplomats say Ashton is pushing for a UN consent under strong pressure from the French, which is generally keen to promote projects supporting European defence and security policy.

With the situation in Libya, particularly Misrata, getting more critical, diplomats in Brussels say the pressure is mounting on the UN to authorise the EU force. "We're at the point of saying we may need to support aid being delivered," said one EU diplomat in Brussels. "So you need people with military capability. The EU has two battle groups ready."

Under a policy going back several years but seldom used, Brussels has a roster of battle groups, with two on permanent standby, comprising a force of about 1,500. The main battle group that would be deployed is German-dominated, which could trigger a row.

France and Britain have been the main hawks on Libya while Germany has been the most vocal opponent of the bombing campaign. Berlin stunned its allies by abandoning the UK, France, and the US in the security council vote last month that mandated the bombing.

Berlin has since promised it would commit forces for a humanitarian mission, but Paris and London would be reluctant to let Germany take the lead, fearing it would be overcautious and restrict the mission's scope.

The Nato alliance is keen to let the EU take over any armed escorts for an aid mission, seeing little role for itself. "I would appreciate it if the EU could take the initiative on the delivery of humanitarian aid," the Nato secretary-general, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, said last week. "Nato has no intention to play a leading role."
 
Does any one remember the story of the Tar Baby?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_baby

That is where Libya is going. No good can come of this.

Europe and by default, Canada, will become "Stuck"

My :2c:
 
If anyone put this scenario forward for discussion in a seminar, she or he would get laughed out of the room.
 
We are fools for getting involved in this quagmire.  We should step back and distance ourselves completely.  If the EU is foolish enough to get stuck in, then that's their problem and decision.  Let the Libyan's sort this out amongst themselves and whomever wins, wins.
 
jollyjacktar said:
We are fools for getting involved in this quagmire.  We should step back and distance ourselves completely.  If the EU is foolish enough to get stuck in, then that's their problem and decision.  Let the Libyan's sort this out amongst themselves and whomever wins, wins.


Agreed.

E.R. Campbell said:
Just about the last thing Libya (or Tunisia or even Egypt and Bahrain, which "matter" much more) needs, right now, is foreign, especially US, intervention.

It is not clear who may end up running Libya, nor is it clear, to me anyway, why it matters a whole lot. We, the big, US led Western "we" and the even bigger Sino-Indo-American led "we" do care about Egypt and Bahrain and a few other places that are seething with discontent - Pakistan, too, maybe? - but not about Libya.

These populist movements may well bring on fundamentalist Islamist government - that was the result of the last really "free and fair" elections (1991) in relatively sophisticated Algeria. Libya has, for over 60 years, been behind its North African neighbours in most socio-economic measures; it depends upon Egypt and others for a steady supply of educated professional and technical people to "operate" the country. It is quite possible that a new military junta of some sort will take over and it may decide to reform and modernize the country - or it may decide that further decades of political repression and socio-economic stagnation are in Libya's best interests.

In any event, it is of little concern to us ... whoever "us" is.


I was opposed to this mission 20 pages and almost 7 weeks ago.
 
just a quick update, the French have sent in officers on the ground to Libya, other NATO countries to send officers as well.
 
France and Italy to send Libya advisers
Sarkozy promises to ramp up air attacks after meeting rebel leader as nations join UK decision to send military team.
20 April 2011
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2011/04/2011420133013544281.html

France and Italy are joining Britain in sending military officers to Libya to help advise rebels on technical, logistical and organisational issues.

Nicolas Sarkozy, the French president, offered assistance to Abdel Jalil, the leader of the Libyan Transitional National Council, when they met in Paris on Wednesday.

"We are going to help you," Sarkozy told him....


Libya: US to deploy armed drones - Robert Gates
22 April 2011
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13166441
Armed US Predator drones are to carry out missions over Libya, Defence Secretary Robert Gates has said.

Mr Gates said their use had been authorised by President Barack Obama and would give "precision capability" to the military operation.

Unmanned US drones are already used to target militants along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border.

Libyan rebels have been battling Col Gaddafi's troops since February but have recently made little headway.

"President Obama has said that where we have some unique capabilities, he is willing to use those," Mr Gates told a news conference.

He said two Predators were being made available to Nato as needed, and marked a "modest contribution" to the military operations.....



 
Well, since things are working out so well in Libya, shall we go  in Syria too ??

Move TF Libeccio to, lets say, Cyprus ?
 
This article is older, but interesting.  The full article goes into detail.



Hijacking Gadhafi's phone network
Wall Street Journal
13 April 2011
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703841904576256512991215284.html?mod=wsj_share_twitter

“A team led by a Libyan-American telecom executive has helped rebels hijack Col. Moammar Gadhafi's cellphone network and re-establish their own communications.

“The new network, first plotted on an airplane napkin and assembled with the help of oil-rich Arab nations, is giving more than two million Libyans their first connections to each other and the outside world after Col. Gadhafi cut off their telephone and Internet service about a month ago.

“That March cutoff had rebels waving flags to communicate on the battlefield. The new cellphone network, opened on April 2, has become the opposition's main tool for communicating from the front lines in the east and up the chain of command to rebel brass hundreds of miles away.

“While cellphones haven't given rebel fighters the military strength to decisively drive Col. Gadhafi from power, the network has enabled rebel leaders to more easily make the calls needed to rally international backing, source weapons and strategize with their envoys abroad.”....................................
continues at link
 
Go After Qaddafi

Stop worrying about an "exit strategy." What America needs in Libya is an entrance strategy.

The embarrassing failure of NATO's strategy with the Libyan "rebels" is easier to understand when it is contrasted with its closest parallel case, which is probably that of Kosovo. After Slobodan Milosevic had attempted to cleanse the province of its Albanian minority, and after it had finally become clear to the governments of NATO that he had completely ceased to be a thinkable "partner for peace," a bombing campaign against Serbian units and positions began. To answer those who doubted that aerial strategy alone could do the needful job, it was pointed out that insurgent forces of the Kosovo Liberation Army, operating on the ground, would take their cue from the bombing and work in coordination with it. Those who didn't like this policy used to sneer that it made us "the air force of the KLA." And this sneer, as it happens, was more or less accurate. (I well remember one Kosovar militant crudely rejoicing in the sudden appearance of friends in the sky, and saying that it enabled his comrades to "fuck Milosevic with Clinton's dick"—an arresting image in any context.)

There were other crude things about the KLA as well, such as its sidelines in smuggling and even trafficking, and its lack of tenderness toward Serbian civilians. But it was a genuinely rooted guerrilla force with real knowledge of the terrain and the society, and it had evolved out of a decade-long struggle of wholesale passive and civic resistance under the leadership of Ibrahim Rugova. There were clannish and tribal elements involved in the ranks, inevitably for that region, and I have never seen so much ammunition fired pointlessly into the air as at a KLA rally in the mountains. But the outfit could fight sure enough when it came to it, and the option of restored rule of Kosovo by Belgrade had by then joined the list of things that were no longer feasible or thinkable. As the attrition intensified, military and political logic more and more dictated that the bombing switch to the source—Milosevic's "command and control" in his capital city. It wasn't long before he was raving and ranting in the dock, where he had long belonged.

Now to Libya: Quite obviously Col. Muammar Qaddafi has joined the list of deranged dictators whose acceptability is at an end, and it is unimaginable that he should emerge from the current confrontation with control over any part of the country. Equally obviously, we shall have to go to Tripoli to remove him. But we will not be doing so in the rearguard of any victorious insurgent army. In Afghanistan we could call upon some fierce and hardened fighters in the shape of the Northern Alliance. In Iraq, the Kurdish peshmerga militias had liberated substantial parts of the country from Saddam Hussein under the protection of our "no-fly zone." But the so-called Libyan rebels do not just fire in the air and strike portentous attitudes for the cameras. They run away, and they quarrel among themselves, and they are not cemented by any historic tradition of resistance or common experience. They are a rabble, in other words, and the proper time to be sending trainers and "advisers" would be after Qaddafi has gone, when it will indeed be helpful and necessary to offer facilities and advice for a reconstituted Libyan army. Meanwhile, it is ridiculous and embarrassing to be their air force.

http://www.slate.com/id/2292067/
 
NATO almost got Gaddafi,but instead got his youngest son Seif and three grandchildren.

TRIPOLI, Libya – A NATO missile struck a house in Tripoli where Moammar Gadhafi and his wife were staying on Saturday, killing his youngest son and three grandchildren but missing the Libyan leader, a government spokesman said.

The strike would be a significant blow to the morale of the regime, which is struggling to maintain its hold on the western half of the country despite weeks of NATO-led airstrikes. It came just hours after Gadhafi called for a mutual cease-fire and negotiations with NATO powers to end a six-week bombing campaign.

Seif al-Arab Gadhafi was the brother of the better known Seif al-Islam Gadhafi, who was widely promoted as a reformer before the uprising began on Feb. 15. The younger Gadhafi had spent much of his time in Germany in recent years.

Moammar Gadhafi and his wife were in the Tripoli house of his 29-year-old son when it was hit by at least one bomb dropped from a NATO warplane, according to Libyan spokesman Moussa Ibrahim.

"The leader himself is in good health," Ibrahim said. "He was not harmed. The wife is also in good health."

On Tuesday, British Defense Minister Liam Fox and U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates told reporters at the Pentagon that NATO planes were not targeting Gadhafi specifically but would continue to attack his command centers. White House spokesman Shin Inouye declined to comment on the developments in Libya, referring questions to NATO.

Ibrahim said Seif al-Arab had studied at a German university but had not yet completed his studies.

"The attack resulted in the martyrdom of brother Seif al-Arab Gadhafi and three of the leader's grandchildren," Ibrahim said.

Seif al-Arab "was playing and talking with his father and mother and his nieces and nephews and other visitors when he was attacked for no crimes committed," Ibrahim said.

Journalists taken to the walled complex of one-story buildings in a residential Tripoli neighborhood saw heavy bomb damage. The blast had torn down the ceiling of one building and left a huge pile of rubble and twisted metal on the ground.

Ibrahim said the airstrike was an attempt to "assassinate the leader of this country," which he said violated international law.

Heavy bursts of gunfire were heard in Tripoli after the attack.

Gadhafi had seven sons and one daughter. The Libyan leader also had an adopted daughter who was killed in a 1986 U.S. airstrike on his Bab al-Aziziya residential compound. That strike — which was separate from the area struck on Saturday — came in retaliation for the bombing attack on a German disco in which two U.S. servicemen were killed. The U.S. at the time blamed Libya for the disco blast.

Seif's mother is Safiya Farkash, Gadhafi's second wife and a former nurse.

Gadhafi railed again foreign intervention earlier Saturday, saying Libyans have the right to choose their own political system but not under the threat of NATO bombings.

"The door to peace is open," Gadhafi said. "You are the aggressors. We will negotiate with you. Come, France, Italy, U.K., America, come to negotiate with us. Why are you attacking us?"

In Brussels, a NATO official said before Saturday's fatal strike that the alliance needed "to see not words but actions," and vowed the alliance would keep up the pressure until the U.N. Security Council mandate on Libya is fulfilled. NATO has promised to continue operations until all attacks and threats against civilians have ceased, all of Gadhafi's forces have returned to bases and full humanitarian access is granted.

The NATO official, who spoke on condition of anonymity according to policy, noted that Gadhafi's forces had shelled Misrata and tried to mine the city's port just hours before his speech.

"The regime has announced cease-fires several times before and continued attacking cities and civilians," the official said.

"All this has to stop, and it has to stop now," the official said.

Rebel leaders have said they will only lay down their arms and begin talks after Gadhafi and his sons step aside. Gadhafi has repeatedly refused to resign.

A rebel spokesman, Jalal al-Galal, called the cease-fire offer a publicity stunt.

"We don't believe that there is a solution that includes him or any member of his family. So it is well past any discussions. The only solution is for him to depart," he said.
 
In realated news Iread somewhere That HM"'s Government had decided to send the scury Libyan ambassador packing becaause Libyan Mobs had attacked several Foreign embassies to protst the lost of col spell-checks son.  Their embassy being one of the ones targetted.

I dare say it will teach those uncivilised  treacherous rogues a sound lesson, the very nerve of attacking an embassy!!!

Besides  they might have been injured or worse - by an airstrike.

To sum up - i think it somewhat surreal taht the brits are raining bombs on Libya, and complain when the libyans attempt retaliation.  Perhaps an A++ for hypocracy and brass

Anyway I'm off  to the  local to organize a "Rule Britannia" sing-song to celebrate this  latest triumph, of diplomacy.

or perhaps just off to the local :piper:
 
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