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Troops Leaving Bosnia-Article

Bruce Monkhouse

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I know most of you probably know this but, here is an article on it.....

Cdn troops leaving Bosnia

By JOHN WARD
   
 
OTTAWA (CP) - After 13 years, 25 deaths, hundreds of millions of dollars and more than 40,000 individual tours of duty, Canada is clearing out its military camps in Bosnia-Herzegovina and reducing its presence there to a handful of soldiers.

The last Canadian camp should be closed and packed by the end of November, about two weeks ahead of schedule.

"The fact that the Bosnia mission for Canada is getting smaller . . . should not allow it to be diminished in importance," Lt.-Col. David Laderoute, who will command the remnant left after the withdrawal, said in a phone interview Monday.

"The very fact that we are able to draw down our forces in Bosnia highlights that fact that this has been a very successful mission."

The fighting is long over. Local authorities are tentatively taking over the policing and security work done by outside soldiers over the years. The work ahead is the slog of rebuilding an economy and infrastructure.

Laderoute's 83 people will mostly handle staff jobs with the multinational force. It's a reduction of about 95 per cent from the late 1990s, when 1,800 Canadians patrolled much of the northwest of the region, keeping the peace and supporting humanitarian aid missions.

Operations in the region defined the Canadian military for more than a decade. The 40,000 tours of duty recorded there since February 1992 - many soldiers went two, three or even four times - was the equivalent of sending over the entire army. Twice.

The Canadians built a sprawling support base around a former agricultural college outside a town called Velika Kladusa, in the northwest of Bosnia-Herzegovina.

At its height, it was a bustling supply and maintenance centre housing hundreds of soldiers, engineers and supply staff. Surrounded by heaps of barbed wire and protected by guard towers, it held tonnes of supplies and equipment and dozens of vehicles, ranging from little Iltis jeeps to armoured personnel carriers, buses, pickups and bulky tractor-trailers.

It supported other bases in the country and provided the overall Canadian headquarters for the region.

Now, it's being dismantled by a team of 268 soldiers under Lt.-Col. Richard Prefontaine.

His people are shipping home more than 270 vehicles, eight helicopters and 279 cargo containers holding more than 1,450 tonnes of equipment and supplies.

They're not only packing, they're also cleaning up the grounds.

"We also have to bring the sites to what they were before and give them back to the owners," he said. "We have to do this and respect very severe regulations. We are using the Canadian regulations for the environment in order to make sure Canada is returning the sites in the same way we would in Canada."

Canada went into the former Yugoslavia as United Nations peacekeepers in February 1992, as civil war raged. They chafed in their camps, handcuffed by UN rules which allowed little room for intervention in the fighting.

In 1993 they did fight a bloody skirmish with Croat troops in an area called the Medak pocket, but that was the exception, not the rule.

In 1996, after the signing of peace accords in Dayton, Ohio, NATO replaced the ineffectual UN mission with a 60,000-member force that came with tanks, artillery and a robust set of rules that brooked no opposition.

The NATO force shrank over the years as Bosnia-Herzegovina and the region as a whole began to rebuild. By last summer, it was down to about 7,000 soldiers and Canada, there from the outset, prepared to withdraw all but a token force.



 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Canada went into the former Yugoslavia as United Nations peacekeepers in February 1992, as civil war raged. They chafed in their camps, handcuffed by UN rules which allowed little room for intervention in the fighting.

In 1993 they did fight a bloody skirmish with Croat troops in an area called the Medak pocket, but that was the exception, not the rule.

In 1996, after the signing of peace accords in Dayton, Ohio, NATO replaced the ineffectual UN mission with a 60,000-member force that came with tanks, artillery and a robust set of rules that brooked no opposition.

Hmm.....I never realized they botched this as well....
 
The NATO force shrank over the years as Bosnia-Herzegovina and the region as a whole began to rebuild. By last summer, it was down to about 7,000 soldiers and Canada, there from the outset, prepared to

I think we're missing a part and the link is not there..  :(  Can you try to finish it please?  I haven't fully read it yet..

Cheers

Frank
 
Does anyone know what the 25 deaths were from? Were they all combat? Or were they a mix of accidents and suicides?
 
mostly vehicle accidents, during the war (UNPROFOR days) some mine deaths and some guys getting nailed by bullets and shrapnel. Most of the tours since '96 have been fairly dull and uneventfull. Its funny listening to fellow reservist tell their war stories of doing what really amounts to make work jobs...
 
CFL said:
Lets just hope that Muslim extremists don't roll in now that we are gone.

To clarify:

a) we are not gone.  There remain 83 Canadian soldiers in Bosnia, doing a variety of tasks ranging from staff positions in HQ, to LOT (Liaison and Observation Team) functions out in the Bosnian community (currently, Bihac), to various other tasks related to maintaining situational awareness, some of which are quite hazardous

b) it is true that tours here are relatively "uneventful".  As I said in the article, that should be considered a GOOD thing.  It means that most of the military objectives have been achieved in this theatre.  The role of the military force in Bosnia is now to maintain the "safe and secure environment", while the broader international community attempts to rebuild the civil institutions of the state.  There is very little overt violence in theatre these days (although there is some).  However, a majority of Bosnians, in a recent poll conducted on behalf of the EU, firmly believe that if the current international military presence is eliminated, the country will spiral back into ethically-driven violence.

c) Bosnia does remain one of the most heavily mined countries in the world.  About 4% of its land-mass is mined, and exactly WHICH 4% is known only approximately.  Having said that, because of the rigorous (and repetitive) mine awareness trg conducted in-theatre, mine strikes have been essentially eliminated among NATO soldiers.  However, civilian mine casualties are all too common.  About two weeks ago, two boys, 11 and 12, were killed in a mine-strike in SE Bosnia.

d) The greatest threat to the safety of any soldier over here are the horrific roads and the truly, amazingly bad driving of some Bosnians, coupled with the unexpected presence of huge trucks, herds of sheep, tractors hauling unsafe, oversized loads, horse-drawn carts and Bosnian pedestrians (who seem to enjoy wearing dark clothes and walking along narrow roads at night).

e) A rise in extremist elements (of many stripes) is a genuine and present concern.

Overall, the draw-down of Cdn tps should be considered good.  It's important for us to not just start missions, but also, eventually, bring them to a close, in a way that means we never have to go back.
 
a.  Right.  The point I make is that there will be no eyes on any potential trouble makers.
b.  If all we are doing is babysitting then its time to pass off the baton
c.  Good for us.  Not so much for those that have to live there
d.  Those drivers make Quebec drivers look like old folk Sunday drivers
e.  My point

Should have ended a lot sooner.
 
While I understand your point, I have to take exception to the term "babysitting".  As I said, the potential for renewed conflict in Bosnia is very real.  The presence of NATO forces, including Canadians, is they key element in preventing violence from recurring.  This is, in fact, a valid and important role for military forces in the modern security environment.  And, given the investment of 40000 individual rotations and 25 lives, Canada has an enduring interest in making sure the situation here doesn't fall apart before Bosnia becomes a functioning state.  I would suggest using a term like "babysitting" denegrates the very real and vital job being done here by all 7000 NATO soldiers, and not just the 83 Canadians remaining in-theatre.
 
When I was in Bosnia on Roto 6, I asked a Bosnian what he thought would happen if Nato 'left today'. His response, without hesitation, was "war tomorrow".

Having said that, I am a little surprised that attitude still prevails.

Oh, and CFL, that Bosnian was fond of wearing tracksuits (if you remember)....with no t-shirt underneath!
 
I hate to cite movies but I found the movie Behind Enemy Lines with Owen Wilson shoot down over Bosnia by Serbs (if I remember correctly).  I found that is showed the military (balaclaves and such) and the sniper (track suit) very similar to the Bosnia we have dealt with.
 
Baby sitting in Bosnia. That is very much what we did. I have spent three post war tours in Bosnia and during my last one as a MOST operator I really understood what they were all about. Do the Bosnians in the old canadian AOR want us to leave? Hell no. We were very good for the economy. I know that one of our departure principles is not to leave a huge vacum (economocaly or in a security sense), too bad.
How many millions, no billions of international dollars have been spent trying to help one little nation when their are countries that are far worse off then Bosnia ever was and we don't spend a dime on them ?
While we are at it, lets talk about soldiers building new schools, new offices, etc.... CIDA writes the money off and guess what ? Most soldier projects are FAILURES ! I have seen it with my own eyes in 03-04.
Projects in terms of rebuilding should be left to the experts who know what they are doing (some of the prominent NGOs are actually switched on in these regards!)
Handing out HA ? spare me. Bosnians got a liittle too complacent with our "hand outs" and I had to deal with Bosnians showing up at the gate and demanding NATO fix their houses, give them money to start a new business, etc...
NATO role was to PROVIDE A SAFE AND SECURE ENVIROMENT ! We did just that long time ago.
If they do start fighting again, hey we can't be very where and solve all the world's problems.
I think CF combat arms troops are best used in Implementation stage of new security mandates. When a mission becomes stable get the other NATO nations to do the routine stuff such as patrolling, hand out mustovi, etc. Nuff said
ArmyRick OUT ! 
 
I think CF combat arms troops are best used in Implementation stage of new security mandates. When a mission becomes stable get the other NATO nations to do the routine stuff such as patrolling, hand out mustovi, etc. Nuff said

I agree fully. The sooner we get out of this business the better: let us do what we do best, and let the GOs/IOs/NGOs do what they do best, with overwatch from us if needed. Cheers.
'
 
521 said:
Does anyone know what the 25 deaths were from? Were they all combat? Or were they a mix of accidents and suicides?


My freind Chris Holopina was killed there in a vehicule accident in 96 and another freind, Gilles Desmarais, electrocuted.  :salute:
 
I knew Chris Holopina when he was a Reservist in the early 90s.  He was a good man and will be remembered.
 
Ex-Yugo (that's Bosnia and Croatia) deaths were a combination of KIA by direct fire (i.e. Dan Gunther) and combat-related (i.e. Mark Isfeld - mine strike) to vehicle accidents, other accidents and health problems.

Acorn
 
ArmyRick said:
NATO role was to PROVIDE A SAFE AND SECURE ENVIROMENT ! We did just that long time ago.
If they do start fighting again, hey we can't be very where and solve all the world's problems.
I think CF combat arms troops are best used in Implementation stage of new security mandates. When a mission becomes stable get the other NATO nations to do the routine stuff such as patrolling, hand out mustovi, etc. Nuff said
ArmyRick OUT !  

And if we leave, the SASE remains?  Or does the place just sink back into a muck of escalating ethnic tension, leading eventually to violence and even to full-blown conflict?  That doesn't sound, to me, like much of a pay-off to the Canadian lives and energy expended in the Balkans over the past decade-plus.  We really don't want to be back in Bosnia in another 10 years, doing it all over again.  We've been down that road...remember Haiti?

The attitude above is much what the US brought to Iraq.  As I said elsewhere, you win the shooting war, you're half-way there.  NGOs, etc. certainly have a role, and that role should incrementally grow over time, displacing that of combat forces.  But, sorry, the reality of the modern security environment is that war-fighting and nation (re)building are a continuum, not discrete activities.  And, no, of course Canada can't be "everywhere", which is why we need to pick and choose where we do want to be.  Like it or not, we've invested heavily in Bosnia, but the return on that investment isn't fully realized yet.  Or, to answer pbi, we're still doing overwatch, and may be for some time yet.
 
IMHO,

The ethnic divisions that have ripped the FRY appart are very deeply rooted and no amount of western involvement will solve that.  I beleive that wether we pull out now or 10 years from now will not change much.  Maybe its time to cut our losses.

Bosnia is not worth any one freind i have lost............

( Sounds harsh but i base my opinion on my experiences in the FRY)
 
Why should the CF be the ones looking after Bosnia? I don't think we will ever realize the money invested there?
I talked to god knoes how many local leaders who can't think forward overe.
Perfect example is the Town of Bos Grahavo threatening to start a big riot if NATO didn't come and solve their flag problem.
The leader myself and another MOST operator talked to was so full of B*LLsh*t and did nothing but talk in circles.
Nothing happened and we didn't have to do anything. Lots of talk and other crap.
Like I said I have been their three times too many. If Bosnia must be watched, then let members of the EU deal with it.
If we leave will it remain SASE ? No, it would becaome a criminal war lord haven. But if EU nations look after it I beleive SASE will remain.
CF troops (IMO) are better to use in a higher intensity, roto 0-3 security missions and implementation missions. I also think CF troops would perform well in combat if they go along side with UK or USA, maybe teaming up with Australia and New Zealand.
I stand by what I have said, we have spent more than enough dollars on Bosnia...
 
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