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"Trading Saber for Stealth" or "Are We a One Trick Pony?"

George:

How about a stationary antenna at 12,000 ft?  The Americans have been using balloons on the Gulf Coast since the 1980s to carry radar.  They can also carry RRBs.  I believe some have been deployed to Iraq in this role.  One over a fixed base increases line of sight communications immensely, relaying not just comms from the ground but also air and UAV comms.  They stay up for months at a time.

Photo from globalsecurity.com article on TARS (Tethered Aerostat Radar System).
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/systems/tars.htm

 
Couple of problems with Balloons:

1)    Aerial obstruction to aircraft, especially if flying over your aerodrome;

2)    Can be an relatively easy (Stationary, Large) target for Enemy; and

3)    Unless deployed forward, they would not provide that much of an improvement in RRB range, and would be more susceptible to point # 2.
 
1 and 3 understood.

2 rebuttal - It actually is quite difficult to bring down a balloon.  It doesn't go bang and you need to make a very large hole in it before it falls out of the sky.
 
Actually, there should be multiple paths, from vehicle to vehicle, to the RRB, an airborn relay and a constellation of satellites, not to mention a DS service ( ;D). Bandwidth management will become very important, and perhaps tricks like "narrowcasting" will be needed to make the most of scarce bandwidth.

One factor which will be important in any situation is EMCON, since even relatively unsophisticated enemies can get and use devices to track radio transmissions, so clever work arounds like "burst" transmissions, frequency hopping or Ultra Wideband Transmissions need to be investigated and adopted. Whatever system(s) are adopted they also need to be user friendly (unlike the system we have now....)
 
I think that the Veh to Veh and uplink to AWACs is probably in effect today.  Once the Patrol or Troop is out any great distance from the Camp, they will loose ground comms to the Base Camp, but likely be able to maintain comms with the AWACs, should they be assigned a Freq.

EMCON would be a simple matter with only one emitter to trace, but with the amount of emitters active in the Coalition Forces, it would become a little more complex.  It is a threat that may eventually happen.  For now, I would suspect that the only EW being conducted is that by the Coalition Forces.
 
It seems that in order to put Major Taylor's prescriptions into action, the traditional recce squadron will have to be reorganized into more of a combined arms organisation. We need capabilities which are usable without pause in any part of the Full Spectrum Operations, and we need more or at least improved means of disseminating this information.

The "Armoured" part of armoured recce will still be predominate, since it provides the rapid and protected mobility across the AOR. If the enemy is able to prevent the recce force from moving and conducting their tasks, through mobility denial or weapons effects, then they have won the recce battle. Physical speed is the first way of maintaining our asymmetrical advantage.

A dismounted component will have an increasing importance as a means of dealing with complex terrain. The Armoured provides the mobility to get to the area of interest, and the dismounts provide the "eyes on" where the vehicles cannot go. In complex human terrain, the ability to interact with the local population at some level will have potentially large dividends. Rapidly understanding the enemy's mindset and intent is the second way of maintaining our asymmetrical advantage.

An "Artillery" component should be available, not just having Arty on call, but on board weapons to provide immediate defensive firepower when having to break contact. PGMs like the Javelin or Gill/Spike would be very handy here. The ability to take independent action and force protection is important for the self preservation of the unit and its capabilities.

A "Signals" and "Surveillance" component to find the enemy through technical means and pass the information both horizontally and vertically. Speed of information is the last leg of our asymmetric advantage. Depending on the technical means chosen, signals and surveillance systems may not all be tied to the armoured recce platform directly (i.e. use of tactical UAVs or the aerostat signals relay idea Kirkhill posted earlier).

This isn't too much different from what we have today, what will need to be thrashed out is the relative proportions of each component, then use that to specify the equipment (from the side arms to the actual recce vehicles). Given the Full Spectrum Operations environment, I would say that Dismounts are by far the most important asset, followed by a vastly upgraded "Signals" component. (It is also easier to do in this order). The "Artillery" can conceptually be hung onto almost any vehicle (the HMMVW/LOSAT combination is an extreme example of what can be done), while any new generation of recce vehicle will need to be designed from the ground up to provide the maximum in protection and mobility for the crew. (NO reworked SUVs or utility trucks).

Given the greater need for information at all levels, I would think the organization of the Recce squadron needs to be larger in order to have more "eyes on" and support surge efforts against asymmetrical enemies. The ability to interface with other units, particularly mechanized Infantry, will also need to be upgraded, since the correct response to irregular forces may well be to flood the contact area with troops to run the enemy down after a contact.

Now pull out the napkin and begin designing the unit!

 
If you create a "combined arms organization" haven't you just created an additional manoeuvre element?  If that's the case who's doing the recce?  If the organization can also conduct recce why can't the other "combined arms" teams in a formation also be used to conduct recce?

Isn't recce a dispersed operation,  lots of small units widely scattered in order to observe as much country-side as possible, while combat operations generally require a concentrated force focused on a defined target?
 
I got my hands on that American Cavalry Operations PAM, and was suprised at just how "Canadian" it really was. There are sections in it that I swear are lifted right out of "The Recce Squadron in Battle" and "The Recce Troop Leader's Manual". A lot of the doctrine just really isn't that different.

The one big difference though is that US Cavalry formations are expected to be able to conduct attacks within their combat power, where Canadian doctrine for the last 20 years or so has de-emphasized that. Here's a telling passage:

ACTIONS ON CONTACT

Actions on contact are a series of combat actions taken on contact with the enemy to develop the situation. Obstacles are treated like enemy contact since they are assumed to be covered by fire. The element making contact initiates these actions and they occur at each level of command, often simultaneously. Units perform these actions whether or not the enemy has detected the presence of the scout. Actions on contact are as follows:

    * Deploy and report.
    * Develop the situation.
    * Choose a course of action.
    * Recommend or execute a course of action.

Deploy and Report

Upon encountering an obstacle or enemy force, the element of the troop making contact deploys to a covered position affording observation and fields of fire. If necessary, the element uses direct fire to suppress the enemy, allowing freedom to maneuver. An immediate contact report is submitted with whatever information is available. This report alerts the commander and allows him to begin necessary actions.

Develop the Situation

The leader of the element in contact develops the situation to define the threat being faced, using various reconnaissance techniques as appropriate. These techniques range from stealthy dismounted reconnaissance, mounted reconnaissance, and reconnaissance by fire-both direct and indirect. The troop or squadron commander continues the mission with other elements to a designated limit of advance. Doing so helps to develop the situation across the front and provides more maneuver space to execute subsequent action. Once a clearer picture of the situation is developed, detailed spot reports are forwarded.

Choose a Course of Action

Once the leader in contact has gathered enough information to make a decision, he selects a course of action. The course of action should adhere to the intent of the commander, be within the capability of the unit, and allow the unit to resume the mission as soon as possible. For an obstacle, these courses of action are a hasty breach or bypass. For enemy contact, courses of action consist of the following:

    * Hasty attack. A hasty attack is executed if sufficient combat power is available, and it will not detract from mission accomplishment. A hasty attack is executed by at least a troop, which can mass adequate combat power.
    * Bypass. The enemy may be bypassed if sufficient combat power is not available, or if an attack will jeopardize mission accomplishment. The unit requests permission to bypass unless stated in orders. The commander must keep a minimum force in contact with the bypassed enemy.
    * Hasty defense. If a hasty attack is not possible or a bypass is not feasible, the leader establishes a hasty defense or screen. The unit will conduct a hasty defense if it can defend against an enemy force. If the enemy contact exceeds the unit's capability to defend, it may elect to establish a screen and maintain contact through observation. The unit concentrates on maintaining contact with the enemy and fixing it in place with indirect or possibly direct fire until additional combat power can be brought to bear from supporting units.

Recommend a Course of Action

Once the leader has selected a course of action, he reports it to his commander. The commander approves or disapproves the course of action based upon its impact on the overall mission. The SOP may provide automatic approval of certain actions to avoid unnecessary delay. If the higher commander assumes responsibility to continue developing the situation, the leader in contact supports his actions as ordered.

I *love* this sequence! I think it very effectively encapsulates the choices availible to any recce commander on contact. It's a great little bit of writing.

Canadian recce doctrine fits this model too - it has just assumed though that the combat power of the troop to be so small, and the offensive power of the enemy (Soviet Motor Rifle Regiment supported by Divisional artillery) so large, that effectively the "hasty attack" option on contact is de facto suicidal, and so is doctrinally taken off the table.

But with the additional combat power of Coyote, and the reduced (although not eliminated) combat power of our typical near-future opponents, it seems to me that the "hasty attack" option is now feasible, and if the situation permits, even desirable. Am I really going to force the brigade advance off the preferred MSR just to bypass a guy with an RPG? Am I going to commit the brigade's combat powerto clearing that guy out, when I am capable of dealing with him myself without overly delaying my advance? (Part of the combat estimate before committing myself to an attack is: Does attacking get me back to my recce task faster than bypassing?)

Scale this up, with a very large follow-on formation, and the American combined-arms Cavalry Regiment starts to make a lot of sense. Large formations have a lot of inertia. It takes time - sometimes, a lot of time - for a large formation to deploy from the march, do battle procedure, etc. Sometimes it is better to have a smaller, more nimble force take on smaller forces and just get them out of the way. If you are a recce force screening a Division (or 2 or 3...) having a lot of integral combat power makes a lot of sense, because you can clear out forces that would be wasteful in time and space to use a Division on.

The Soviets were big on that too. That whole progression of forces starting with the CRP etc was designed to push small, combat capable subunits forward so they could handle small forces on their own without involving the bigger forces behind - and if they were *too* small to handle whatever they encountered, successively larger friendly units were on their way to help.

Biggest problem with this in a Canadian context? No big formations to screen for. We aren't likely to be fielding the First Canadian Army any time soon, so it won't need the First Canadian Cavalry Regiment to screen for it. The combat capacity of an American cavalry unit isn't necessarily necessary if we aren't going to be expected to take out small-ish enemy formations in order to prevent forcing the deployment of a large formation from march order to a fighting stance.

Now what I *CAN* see Canadian Cavalry doing is advancing into an new AOR to recce out the area in advance of it being occupied by a Canadian contingent. I can see a Canadian Cavalry mission used to extend the influence of a base camp by conducting patrols of larger radius and longer duration, covering more ground and staying away from base longer than those typically performed by the infantry. I can see Canadian Cavalry acting as a long distance rapid reaction force, moving rapidly to counter a threat and fixing it in place (or screening it in retrograde if it is too big to fix) for subsequent follow-on attack by heavier and slower forces. I can see Canadian Cavalry doing convoy escorts and zone surveilliance.

And really... three Recce troops with Coyote, plus an Assault Troop with LAV-III... that fits the bill. It certainly wouldn't hurt to have some direct fire punch (ideally a troop or two of tanks, but something like Rookiat is probably acceptable too) I don't see the need for organic artillery or engineers - if we really need them for the mission, they can be attached from a higher formation.

Oddly, this is almost exactly what current doctrine calls for now. It's almost like it isn't broken.....

DG

 
RecceDG said:
I don't see the need for organic artillery or engineers - if we really need them for the mission, they can be attached from a higher formation.

While I don't want to denigrate DG for his opinion, I can't imagine giving up any assets that are offered. If you're taking vehicles, especially armoured vehicles, into almost any imaginable contemporary environment, you're likely going to need engineers. If you're in contact with an enemy with any appreciable combat power, you're going to want artillery - - unless the enemy is "too big to fix," then even screening operations are going to require arty support.

If most situations are going to require Engrs/Guns, don't wait until operations to have them "attached from higher." Build cohesion and familiarity before rounds start impacting on your call-sign
 
I don't disagree - in so far as I'm not going to tell arty or the engineers to pound sand if they want to come along (or are offered)

But I don't think we need to MAKE arty and/or engineers an organic part of a recce squadron,where EVERY recce squadron MUST have arty and engineers as part of its ORBAT.

The issue there isn't one of resistance to having them along, but rather, a recognition that we are unlikely as a nation to commit to purchasing these expensive and rare units in addition to standing up the usual "pure" engineer and arty units. If we make them a dedicated part of the recce sqn ORBAT, I fear (assuming it would even go through) that we would wind up penny-packeting resources better kept massed.

And don't worry about denigrating my opinion. :) That's what discussion and debate is all about.

DG
 
Kirkhill said:
If you create a "combined arms organization" haven't you just created an additional manoeuvre element?  If that's the case who's doing the recce?  If the organization can also conduct recce why can't the other "combined arms" teams in a formation also be used to conduct recce?

Isn't recce a dispersed operation,  lots of small units widely scattered in order to observe as much country-side as possible, while combat operations generally require a concentrated force focused on a defined target?

In many ways a recce sqn is a manoeuvre unit, albeit not intended for "heavy" combat.  I think, however, that I understand your point.  

If we were to pursue a "combined arms cavalry" style organization, it would not necessarily be concentrated.  An old-school square combat team could be given a "recce" task, but the high proportion of tanks and APCs with infantry might not be the best employment of resources.  A "combined arms cavalry" might bear some resemblance to a combat team, but there would be some differences in structure and employment based on the task.

I'll go back to my days on the Cavalry Leader's Course.  A Cavalry Troop had two Scout Platoons and either two Tank Platoons or two Anti-tank Platoons.  It also had a mortar section.  The scouts were either in M3 Bradleys or HMMVWs.  Each scout vehicle had two dismounts in addition to its crew.  The tanks were M1s and the anti-tank platoons had HMMVWs with TOW.

While the Cavalry Troop could indeed "attack" something, the destruction of dug-in elements was intended to be left to follow-on forces.  The Troop would normally operate on a wider frontage than a standard Company Team, usually with two Scout Platoons up.  The tanks could either operate as one group from the centre or be split up (depending on the situation) while the mortars would try to be in the best position to support the Troop commander's intent.  The aim of the combat power was to either destroy enemy recce elements found by the scouts or to engage enemy combat power interfering with the scouts.  In guards (common tasks for the Cold War), the tanks would also be prepared to kill the leading bits of the bad guys advance.

A similar arrangement could be made in theory by attaching a tank troop or TOW platoon to a recce sqn, but the attached troops would need to have training in their new role. By putting these elements in the Cav Troop you ensure that they train together.

Whether infantry platoons go in is a different question.  It should be noted that while the Cav Tp had dismounts they were not infantry.  The MOC/MOC of the dismounts is not my focus, but rather that the dismounts are not there to close with and destroy the enemy or hold terrain.  They are there to sneak around on foot.

One could, however, envision a Cavalry sub-unit with two or three Recce Troops, one or two LAV borne Infantry Platoons and an "anti-tank" Troop with TOW/MGS along with some integral fire support.  Some form of integral engineering recce and obstacle clearing capability would also be desireable (maybe double-hat some people).  The LAV platoons would be prepared to operate somewhat more loosely than usual, as they would be focused on neutralizing OPs and clearing out RPG teams.  They would not be assaulting dug-in platoons or digging in themselves to hold off the hordes.  Maybe you have a "scrambled" sub-unit, with small "blobs" of Coyotes, LAVs and TOW/MGS?

 
Journeyman said:
While I don't want to denigrate DG for his opinion, I can't imagine giving up any assets that are offered. If you're taking vehicles, especially armoured vehicles, into almost any imaginable contemporary environment, you're likely going to need engineers. If you're in contact with an enemy with any appreciable combat power, you're going to want artillery - - unless the enemy is "too big to fix," then even screening operations are going to require arty support.

If most situations are going to require Engrs/Guns, don't wait until operations to have them "attached from higher." Build cohesion and familiarity before rounds start impacting on your call-sign
I don't agree.

When your Armoured Recce is operating 40  to 60 Km ahead of the FLOT, well in the rear of the Enemy FLET, you do not need to have Engineer Recce and Artillery tagging along.  The Artillery will be on call.  FOOs and FACs would be a luxury, sometimes there, often not.  Engineer Recce will be at the FLOT with Inf Recce performing a more relevant role to the Bde prepping any routes for the Advance or Demolitions for the Defence.  

If you guys insist of attaching all these elements to Armd Recce, you have in effect taken away from their job.  You have now clouded the location of the FLOT.  Where is it?  With the lead Inf Bns or the lead Recce Elements?
 
I guess one issue of having artillery "on call" if you are recce is making sure that it is indeed "on call."  If you are 60km forward, where is your fire support going to be?  I'd like to have a pair of mortars along with the Sqn to give us the ability to lay down quick and dirty suppressive fire and smoke to get a patrol out of a tight spot without having to higher.  The mortars can move with us.

Its a cheesy example, but on a Kingston final ex a few years back the Division Recce Regt (really a cav style unit) outstripped the Division's artillery.  It had its orders to get up front quickly and find the bad guys, but the supporing artillery piece got messed up.  It was  big point at the AAR.  Having integral fire support makes sure that this doesn't happen.  One of the big planning pieces for a US Cav Sqn in an ACR was where to place the integral battery of 155mms (in addition to the mortars in the Tps).  The gunners in the battery were posted there, so they were not having to suddenly adapt from supporting a conventional brigade to the more fluid and dispersed Cavalry fight.

For engineers, I'm not sure that we need dedicated engineer Troops up front in a heavy-metal shooting war.  If there are major rivers and anti-tank ditches/minefields those are best left to follow-on forces.  I would just like to have the ability to get through minor road blocks.  The purpose of having an engineer recce Sgt up front would be to enable him to get engineer specific information back through his chain earlier.  Armoured Recce Sgts are, of course, capable of doing this as well but having the SME would help.  In addition, with the contemporary operating environment, route approval procedures might be facilitated by having integral sappers.  Still, if I had to pick in a shooting war I'd go for integral fire support for sure and integral engineers maybe.

Turing again to a future possible heavy-metal shooting war, I believe that this style of organization would pretty much be our only possible contribution.  The follow-on forces ("battlegroups" and brigades) would be coalition forces, not 4 CMBG.  In this context, a Cavalry Task Force (Regt sized) may well have an Engineer Sqn and tube artillery battery attached permanently.  I still want mortars in the Sqns...
 
"When your Armoured Recce is operating 40  to 60 Km ahead of the FLOT,"

....then they are LOST.  ;D  That is waaaay to far ahead for a normal covering force or screen.

If you wan't a Recce force that can punch it out and trade space for time, look at the Corps ACRs from 7th Army in Germany in the 80s - 2ACR and 11ACR.

Tom
 
One could, however, envision a Cavalry sub-unit with two or three Recce Troops, one or two LAV borne Infantry Platoons and an "anti-tank" Troop with TOW/MGS along with some integral fire support.  Some form of integral engineering recce and obstacle clearing capability would also be desireable (maybe double-hat some people).

I think that LAV-based "Infantry Platoon" is good old fashioned Assault Troop, right down to having some integral "light" engineering and obstacle clearing.

How about "Fire Support Troop" with 4 X (shudder) MGS, 2 X LAV-TUA, and 2 X LAV-Mortar (are 2 mortars enough?)

I also think that we should be looking at 2 X scout for every recce troop c/s. So Coyote becomes driver, cc, gunner, and 2 X dismount

DG
 
Kirkhill said:
If you create a "combined arms organization" haven't you just created an additional manoeuvre element?  If that's the case who's doing the recce?  If the organization can also conduct recce why can't the other "combined arms" teams in a formation also be used to conduct recce?

Isn't recce a dispersed operation,  lots of small units widely scattered in order to observe as much country-side as possible, while combat operations generally require a concentrated force focused on a defined target?

The reason for suggesting a "combined arms" approach is similar the the reasoning behind the layout of an SBCT Coy, which combines elements of many trades into one unified package in order to be able to deal with a wide range of scenarios. In a "Full Spectrum Operation", it is quite probable that a humanitarian mission is suddenly interupted by a "drive by" attack by the enemy, jumping from low to high in a matter of seconds. In the heavy metal scenarios, the inverse applies, after the shooting dies down and the force has occupied an area, they have to transition to stabilization ops, but still prepare for possible counterattacks. The commander needs to be able to grab and deploy his assets right away, not wait for higher.

A recce unit will have the same situations on a smaller scale. A patrol might be tasked to do a VCP, and could be attacked by insurgents at the VCP, discover and capture a peerson of interest at the VCP, or encounter a sick or injured person being transported to family or friends for help at the VCP. Or nothing at all happens. The patrol (and by extention the remainder of the Recce troops) needs to be able to deal with all these contingencies by themselves. Depending on how we size the Recce unit, we can go for small scale solutions (i.e. having two vehicle mounted mortars as part of a fire support troop) to the integral engineer and artillery assets 2Bravo suggests for a Cavalry Task Force. The logistics tail has to be sized to suit, but with the mobility of the Recce AFVs and the idea that 72hr + consumable stores be carried on board, the tail could be quite flexible. Driving back to the FOB for resupply is also a potential option.
 
Another quick question.  In full spectrum operations what is a realistic probability that an enemy force is going to be able to sneak a tank into position while VCPs are being conducted in the area and troops are handing out IMPs?  I can understand anticipating a few sedans with gunmen, VBIEDs and maybe a technical or two in that scenario,  they could move into position fairly unobtrusively,  but I am inclined to think that an Armoured enemy presence in the are is going to show on the intelligence radar before troops are deployed.  In which case the commander is surely likely to task some heavier support, if available, to attach itself to the deployed teams.  Isn't he also likely to keep the teams a little closer to home so that they are well within a reaction umbrella?

As to the comment about 40 to 60 km ahead of FLOT -  as I have mentioned before the KIWIs planning base envisages and Area of Operations 100 km by 60 km for an infantry task force with LAV company.  That means that even if recce is only conducted within the AO then they will be operating up to 50 km from main base.  Smaller garrisons may be forward deployed offering closer support but if that's the case wouldn't recce be pushed forward beyond the 100x60 box?  A brigade Area of Operations would be bigger still. 

I don't think you are likely to be screening a Corps move anytime soon.  You are currently being asked to recce very large areas with very limited numbers.
 
"board, the tail could be quite flexible. Driving back to the FOB for resupply is also a potential option."

Cbt Supplies (Beans/Bullets/Benzine/Beer -"Food/Ammo/POL/Water") is one issue - particularly with bulky ammo (Eryx?) and POL for systems that must remain on hi-idle to power their comms/FCS and avoid blow-by through the exhaust. BUT, a varied team means more technicians and tech taxis to carry them.  Remember, the old (old?!) Corps 86 Tank Sqn consisted of 19 Leo C1 Tanks, and 19 "TnT": Tracks ' Trucks?  And that was only for a Sqn of Tanks and an Ech of Leo ARV, M113A1 and SEV , M548, MLVW,Iltis, 5/4 Ton Cago and SEV, numerous Tlrs.

So, even at Coy/Sqn/Bty level, if you mix your systems permanently, your Tech-n-Taxi bill will go waay out the roof.  Especially now, with the trained CF half the size it was in 1990.

"I can understand anticipating a few sedans with gunmen, VBIEDs and maybe a technical or two in that scenario,  they could move into position fairly unobtrusively,  but I am inclined to think that an Armoured enemy presence in the are is going to show on the intelligence radar before troops are deployed."

- We are essentially tasked with what the manual calls "Formation Level Reconnaissance Squadron Tasks"  and under 'Tactical Security' some of those are 'Rear Area Security (RAS)', Traffic Control' and 'Convoy Escort'.

"I don't think you are likely to be screening a Corps move anytime soon.  You are currently being asked to recce very large areas with very limited numbers."

- The Corps example was to illustrate the size, complexity and tail manpower bill of all-singing, all dancing Recce orgs.

"You are currently being asked to recce very large areas with very limited numbers."

- Yup.  80 to 100 km patrols out of KAF in 2002 with just a patrol (two) Coyotes was common at one point.  We would come back 12 hours later, grinning, covered in green dust.

Tom
 
Sorry Tom

Forgot who I was talking to there.

Cheers.
 
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