Tory minority in jeopardy as opposition talks coalition. Will there be another election?
- Thread starter Zell_Dietrich
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What scares the bejeesus out of me in this statement;
A spokesperson for the Prime Minister's Office said there was nothing unethical about covertly listening in to the private NDP deliberations, taping those discussions and releasing them to the media."
is the portion that is in bold. While the spokesman may not have had explicit approval from the PM for the statement, being from the PMO's office would denote implicit approval. If this is the case, what is to prevent the mindset from doing so to any private conversation? I state private due to the wording of covert in this instance.
Edited for spelling.
A spokesperson for the Prime Minister's Office said there was nothing unethical about covertly listening in to the private NDP deliberations, taping those discussions and releasing them to the media."
is the portion that is in bold. While the spokesman may not have had explicit approval from the PM for the statement, being from the PMO's office would denote implicit approval. If this is the case, what is to prevent the mindset from doing so to any private conversation? I state private due to the wording of covert in this instance.
Edited for spelling.
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What the conservatives have done is brilliant(I'm not saying I support it). They put forward an 'economic update' with part of it being eliminating the political party funding formula. The media reported that the opposition parties intended to vote against the 'update', not because of the political party funding issue, but because of the lack of an economic stimulus package. Since(according to media reports) the political party funding issue has been pulled from the update the opposition parties now have no choice but to continue to push forward with their coalition government talks. If they backed down now they would be exposed as hypocrites by proving the real reason for this plan is to not lose their funding.
If I remember right the projected savings for eliminating the party funding was 30 million? I'm pretty sure that the last federal election cost us more than that, and so will the next one.
If I remember right the projected savings for eliminating the party funding was 30 million? I'm pretty sure that the last federal election cost us more than that, and so will the next one.
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It is to the point that you dont vote for who you like but who you dislike the least. I voted and like the conservatives but they have pulled some stunts that did not sit well with me. I think most Canadians just want to face the day with grown ups working on the Hill.
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milnews.ca said:
Guilty of excessive hyperbole as charged
Apples and oranges. We never vote for the next election but we do vote for the party/person/ideals that we wish to see in power/in charge/inacted.
You are correct, though I always consider Seats as separate from voter share, after all the Liberals won majorities with only 38% of the vote.
I'd rather we spend 300 million on a vote in which the people of the country determine who gets to lead rather than have an unelected royal babysitter, two political has beens, a lame duck leader, a socialist and a $%# separatist decide it for us.
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I wasn't trying to single you out specifically, since I saw several other uses of the word, so you're certainly not alone.Zip said:Guilty of excessive hyperbole as charged
We vote who we want NOW, not who we MAY want? Fair enough...Zip said:
Ah, the fun of how we elect governments, eh?Zip said:
I'm not a republican, so I'm OK with the GG being there, but you sure make a good case for any coalition being FAR less than ideal. I'd rather see them give it a go than spend all that election $ - besides, wouldn't THEY look knobby during any subsequent election, with the Conservatives saying, "hey, you saw how THEY did it, which do you prefer now?"Zip said:
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Gazoo said:
I am with ya there... Historically speaking, how did governments fair in the next election after a recession? During this period, any government would have to make very unpopular policy decisions, or do incredibily stupid things which would prolong our collective pain. A coalition takes power, when the recession ends, the CPC sits back and says "I told ya so..." rides to an easy majority win.
Dirty politics. I am trying not to read into it too much. As long as whoever is in, does not change the price of beer (or decide to budget cut me out of work) I will be content with whoever.
Would be really nice tho, if watching CPAC I was no longer confused as to whether I was watching elected officials or a bunch of drunks in a very bad poky chest arguement.
EDIT TO FIX SPELLING
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milnews.ca said:
I am very quickly becoming one. It's a shock to see just how easy it is for all of our votes to become meaningless and (I would argue) our democratic process and rights to go along with them.
I'm being shown just what the other two "federalist" (and from now on I will not use that term to describe the Libs and NDP) parties are made of right now, I don't need to see how bad they are going to cock it up.
The Conservatives proposed more long term stimulus of the economy (on top of what they have done i.e. reduced taxes, reduced corporate taxes), they implied that there might be money for the auto sector, depending on the answer they get from the big three after telling them (prudently and rightly) to come back with a plan and not just their hands out ready to reach into our proverbial wallets.
The plurality of Canadians elected the Conservatives, thereby electing for conservative fiscal policy, which has always included a certain portion of non-intervention (not anywhere near laissez faire though in spite of Dion's assertions). The fact that the Libs and NDP don't like it is a given. They wouldn't like anything the conservatives had proposed. It wouldn't be "enough" it would "ignore workers and their families to benefit the big business" it would "have nothing for Quebec" yadda, yadda, yadda... But going at the problem from a different ideological point of view is exactly what Canadians voted for.
There has been an incremental change in Canadian politics and how Candians have been voting since the rise of the CPC, we seem to be realizing that big programs sponsored by big government ideals tend to mean less service, poor results and even bigger governments.
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helpup said:
I was working in Kingston recently, and their city council tried to get $8 million in federal "infrastructure" money for their vast and uneconomic multi-use downtown arena. London Ontario receives 121% more from the federal and provincial governments than the average of 30 similar Canadian cities, yet refuses to actually spend that money on infrastructure (they budget @ $8 million/year vs the @ $30 million /year actually needed). A large "Stimulus" package will only trigger inflation and devalue any accumulated savings and wealth you might have (compounding the global financial crisis to boot, which is caused by a vast imbalance between wealth and accumulated debt.)
It looks like a multi prong counterattack against inept and "progressive" city councils, Provincial governments and programs wherever they exist and national level "Progressive" parties is needed to end the madness.
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The liberals,the marxists and the seperatists have no moral right to govern.
During the election only 32% of people said they wanted a coalition government,and I would now suspect with the bloc holding this coup together that that number will be lower.
During the election only 32% of people said they wanted a coalition government,and I would now suspect with the bloc holding this coup together that that number will be lower.
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Paul W... said:
Care to explain?
Do you mean that, as individual parties, they did not receive sufficient votes to form a government?
Now that the election is over, they stand as representatives of those shares of votes they did receive. If they choose to pool their shares and attempt to form a government within an existing structure that allows such an option, it is hardly without a "moral right to govern."
Just because we don't like the option, doesn't make it a "moral" outrage.
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37% voted for Conservatives the largest of all the parties.
32% said that wanted a coalition governent,those numbers are what makes what they are doing antidemocratic,against the wishes of Canadians.
It doesn't matter what the opposition parties numbers are,they don't have the support of Canadian to do this.
32% said that wanted a coalition governent,those numbers are what makes what they are doing antidemocratic,against the wishes of Canadians.
It doesn't matter what the opposition parties numbers are,they don't have the support of Canadian to do this.
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It lives?
Liberals, NDP, Bloc sign deal on proposed coalition
'We must try to make this Parliament work,' Dion says of accord
Last Updated: Monday, December 1, 2008 | 5:22 PM ET CBC News
The Liberals, New Democrats and the Bloc Québécois signed an agreement on Monday to form an unprecedented coalition government if they are successful in ousting the minority Conservative government in a coming confidence vote.
The accord between parties led by Stéphane Dion, Jack Layton and Gilles Duceppe came just hours after Liberal caucus members agreed unanimously that Dion would stay on to lead the Liberal-NDP coalition, with support in the House of Commons from the Bloc.
The six-point accord includes a description of the role of the Liberal and NDP caucuses, which will meet separately and sit next to each other on the government benches in the House of Commons, Dion told a news conference alongside Layton and Duceppe.
Dion said he has advised Gov. Gen. Michaëlle Jean in a letter that he has the confidence of the Commons to form the government should Stephen Harper's Conservatives be defeated in a confidence vote.
The Liberal leader, who has announced he will step down in May, also pledged he would hand over "a strong government for a stronger Canada" to his Liberal successor.
Dion said the parties reached the accord after watching the "sad spectacle" of other countries' governments acting to counter the "unprecedented" global economic crisis while Harper's Conservatives "sat and did nothing."
"Given the critical situation facing our fellow citizens and the refusal and inability of the Harper government to deal with this critical situation, the opposition parties have decided that it was now time to take action," he said.
"We must try to make this Parliament work."
Layton said a proposed economic package, which is part of the accord, is "prompt, prudent, competent and, most important, effective."
The NDP leader also called on the prime minister to "accept this gracefully" and not bring further instability by fighting the verdict of his colleagues in the House.
The proposed coalition cabinet will be composed of 24 ministers and the prime minister. Six of these ministers will be appointed from within the NDP caucus.
The accord will expire on June 30, 2011, unless it is renewed. It includes a "policy accord" to address the "present economic crisis," which states that the accord "is built on a foundation of fiscal responsibility."
An economic stimulus package will be the new government's top priority, while other policies include a commitment to improve child benefits and childcare "as finances permit."
There is also a commitment to "pursue a North American cap-and-trade market" to limit carbon emissions.
The Bloc Québécois would not officially be a part of the coalition, but the new government's survival would depend on its support.
No-confidence vote set for Dec. 8
Parliament is due to vote on a Liberal no-confidence motion on Dec. 8. If Harper's government were to lose a confidence vote, Dion would request that Jean approve the proposed plan to form a coalition government.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper said last week the government should be empowered by Canadians through elections — not through deals negotiated in the shadowy halls of Parliament. (CBC)But the Governor General, who is currently on a state visit in Europe, could also decide to send Canadians to the polls for a second time in less than two months. The prime minister could also still block coalition efforts by proroguing Parliament, that is, suspending it without dissolving it.
Dion, who has been blamed by some for the Liberals' poor showing in the October election, had agreed to step down as party leader in May. However, in the hour-long meeting on Monday, Dion received support from all three Liberal MPs vying to replace him, Michael Ignatieff, Bob Rae and Dominic LeBlanc, the CBC's Susan Bonner reported from outside the House of Commons.
The three leadership candidates emerged from the meeting together and told reporters they agreed to Dion's presence, but insisted the campaign to replace him will continue "in the normal fashion."
Details of the deal
The proposed coalition government would include:
24 members of cabinet and Dion as prime minister.
18 Liberal cabinet ministers, 6 NDP cabinet ministers.
6 NDP parliamentary secretaries.
2 caucuses that would sit side by side in the House of Commons.
Source: Susan Bonner, CBC News
Ignatieff, who is the front-runner to succeed Dion in an upcoming leadership convention, said the three candidates were "at one" in their belief that "the only leader who can lead us in this context is the duly elected leader of the Liberal party."
"I support the accord because it's fiscally responsible, it provides responsible economic leadership in tough times and it also conserves the basic principles of national unity, equality that our party has always believed in," he said.
Rae described the caucus meeting as "historic" and "moving," while also saying the deal was "perfectly constitutional" and would present for Canadians "the very best possible government."
The opposition parties say they have lost confidence in the Harper government after last Thursday's economic update by Finance Minister Jim Flaherty failed to provide a stimulus package for Canadians. Since then, the Liberals had been in negotiations to form a coalition with the NDP, planning to oust the Conservatives in a confidence vote.
During question period in the House of Commons on Monday, Dion challenged Harper to allow his government to face a vote.
"Does the prime minister still believe that he enjoys the confidence of this House?" Dion asked.
A fiery Harper, in turn, accused Dion of "playing the biggest political game in Canadian history," saying the Liberal leader would recklessly attempt to govern the country amid a global economic crisis under threat of veto by "socialists and separatists."
Dion reminded the House that in 2004, in a letter to the Governor General, Harper — then-opposition leader — proposed that he be allowed to form a government if Paul Martin's Liberal minority government were to fall.
NDP would hold 25% of cabinet spots
Earlier Monday, former NDP leader Ed Broadbent, who took part in the talks, told reporters that "a very constructive, positive agreement has been reached between the Liberal Party of Canada and the New Democratic Party that will bring stimulus to the economy, which is badly needed."
"There are going to be a lot of jobs, a protection of pensions and I think we can look forward to a very constructive period," he told reporters, saying the deal included aid for the suffering auto and forestry sectors.
The Canadian Press reported a source saying mid-Monday that the parties had agreed to present a $30-billion stimulus package that would offer substantial aid to the troubled auto and forestry industries.
The source said the deal also calls for the formation of an economic advisory panel of experts that would include Paul Martin, John Manley, Frank McKenna and Roy Romanow.
Details of the agreement were fleshed out Sunday night.
The CBC's Bonner reported that, under the proposed deal, the NDP would hold 25 per cent of cabinet positions, while the positions of finance minister, treasury board president and deputy prime minister would be held by Liberals.
The deal would reportedly last 30 months. Asked whether the coalition is for 18 months or two years, Liberal MP Gerard Kennedy said, "It's actually for a longer period of time than that."
But Kennedy did not elaborate on the time frame.
PM 'has no one to blame but himself: Rae
If prime minister moved to prorogue Parliament, the Conservative government could not be defeated in the current session of the House. But Harper would also need the approval of the Governor General to do that.
But Rae said a move to prorogue would lack legitimacy, as it would clearly be to avoid a vote of confidence.
"Mr. Harper has no one to blame but himself for the fact that he's not been able to gain the confidence of the majority of the House," he told the CBC's senior parliamentary editor, Don Newman.
On Sunday, Flaherty said the government would deliver the budget on Jan. 27, about a month before one would normally be tabled in the House.
Shortly after Flaherty's announcement, Transport Minister John Baird said the minority government wouldn't try to eliminate federal civil servants' right to strike over the next couple of years, as pledged in last week's economic update.
On Saturday, Baird also announced the government had shelved its contentious plan to eliminate political party subsidies that are based on the number of votes received during elections.
With files from Reuters
Liberals, NDP, Bloc sign deal on proposed coalition
'We must try to make this Parliament work,' Dion says of accord
Last Updated: Monday, December 1, 2008 | 5:22 PM ET CBC News
The Liberals, New Democrats and the Bloc Québécois signed an agreement on Monday to form an unprecedented coalition government if they are successful in ousting the minority Conservative government in a coming confidence vote.
The accord between parties led by Stéphane Dion, Jack Layton and Gilles Duceppe came just hours after Liberal caucus members agreed unanimously that Dion would stay on to lead the Liberal-NDP coalition, with support in the House of Commons from the Bloc.
The six-point accord includes a description of the role of the Liberal and NDP caucuses, which will meet separately and sit next to each other on the government benches in the House of Commons, Dion told a news conference alongside Layton and Duceppe.
Dion said he has advised Gov. Gen. Michaëlle Jean in a letter that he has the confidence of the Commons to form the government should Stephen Harper's Conservatives be defeated in a confidence vote.
The Liberal leader, who has announced he will step down in May, also pledged he would hand over "a strong government for a stronger Canada" to his Liberal successor.
Dion said the parties reached the accord after watching the "sad spectacle" of other countries' governments acting to counter the "unprecedented" global economic crisis while Harper's Conservatives "sat and did nothing."
"Given the critical situation facing our fellow citizens and the refusal and inability of the Harper government to deal with this critical situation, the opposition parties have decided that it was now time to take action," he said.
"We must try to make this Parliament work."
Layton said a proposed economic package, which is part of the accord, is "prompt, prudent, competent and, most important, effective."
The NDP leader also called on the prime minister to "accept this gracefully" and not bring further instability by fighting the verdict of his colleagues in the House.
The proposed coalition cabinet will be composed of 24 ministers and the prime minister. Six of these ministers will be appointed from within the NDP caucus.
The accord will expire on June 30, 2011, unless it is renewed. It includes a "policy accord" to address the "present economic crisis," which states that the accord "is built on a foundation of fiscal responsibility."
An economic stimulus package will be the new government's top priority, while other policies include a commitment to improve child benefits and childcare "as finances permit."
There is also a commitment to "pursue a North American cap-and-trade market" to limit carbon emissions.
The Bloc Québécois would not officially be a part of the coalition, but the new government's survival would depend on its support.
No-confidence vote set for Dec. 8
Parliament is due to vote on a Liberal no-confidence motion on Dec. 8. If Harper's government were to lose a confidence vote, Dion would request that Jean approve the proposed plan to form a coalition government.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper said last week the government should be empowered by Canadians through elections — not through deals negotiated in the shadowy halls of Parliament. (CBC)But the Governor General, who is currently on a state visit in Europe, could also decide to send Canadians to the polls for a second time in less than two months. The prime minister could also still block coalition efforts by proroguing Parliament, that is, suspending it without dissolving it.
Dion, who has been blamed by some for the Liberals' poor showing in the October election, had agreed to step down as party leader in May. However, in the hour-long meeting on Monday, Dion received support from all three Liberal MPs vying to replace him, Michael Ignatieff, Bob Rae and Dominic LeBlanc, the CBC's Susan Bonner reported from outside the House of Commons.
The three leadership candidates emerged from the meeting together and told reporters they agreed to Dion's presence, but insisted the campaign to replace him will continue "in the normal fashion."
Details of the deal
The proposed coalition government would include:
24 members of cabinet and Dion as prime minister.
18 Liberal cabinet ministers, 6 NDP cabinet ministers.
6 NDP parliamentary secretaries.
2 caucuses that would sit side by side in the House of Commons.
Source: Susan Bonner, CBC News
Ignatieff, who is the front-runner to succeed Dion in an upcoming leadership convention, said the three candidates were "at one" in their belief that "the only leader who can lead us in this context is the duly elected leader of the Liberal party."
"I support the accord because it's fiscally responsible, it provides responsible economic leadership in tough times and it also conserves the basic principles of national unity, equality that our party has always believed in," he said.
Rae described the caucus meeting as "historic" and "moving," while also saying the deal was "perfectly constitutional" and would present for Canadians "the very best possible government."
The opposition parties say they have lost confidence in the Harper government after last Thursday's economic update by Finance Minister Jim Flaherty failed to provide a stimulus package for Canadians. Since then, the Liberals had been in negotiations to form a coalition with the NDP, planning to oust the Conservatives in a confidence vote.
During question period in the House of Commons on Monday, Dion challenged Harper to allow his government to face a vote.
"Does the prime minister still believe that he enjoys the confidence of this House?" Dion asked.
A fiery Harper, in turn, accused Dion of "playing the biggest political game in Canadian history," saying the Liberal leader would recklessly attempt to govern the country amid a global economic crisis under threat of veto by "socialists and separatists."
Dion reminded the House that in 2004, in a letter to the Governor General, Harper — then-opposition leader — proposed that he be allowed to form a government if Paul Martin's Liberal minority government were to fall.
NDP would hold 25% of cabinet spots
Earlier Monday, former NDP leader Ed Broadbent, who took part in the talks, told reporters that "a very constructive, positive agreement has been reached between the Liberal Party of Canada and the New Democratic Party that will bring stimulus to the economy, which is badly needed."
"There are going to be a lot of jobs, a protection of pensions and I think we can look forward to a very constructive period," he told reporters, saying the deal included aid for the suffering auto and forestry sectors.
The Canadian Press reported a source saying mid-Monday that the parties had agreed to present a $30-billion stimulus package that would offer substantial aid to the troubled auto and forestry industries.
The source said the deal also calls for the formation of an economic advisory panel of experts that would include Paul Martin, John Manley, Frank McKenna and Roy Romanow.
Details of the agreement were fleshed out Sunday night.
The CBC's Bonner reported that, under the proposed deal, the NDP would hold 25 per cent of cabinet positions, while the positions of finance minister, treasury board president and deputy prime minister would be held by Liberals.
The deal would reportedly last 30 months. Asked whether the coalition is for 18 months or two years, Liberal MP Gerard Kennedy said, "It's actually for a longer period of time than that."
But Kennedy did not elaborate on the time frame.
PM 'has no one to blame but himself: Rae
If prime minister moved to prorogue Parliament, the Conservative government could not be defeated in the current session of the House. But Harper would also need the approval of the Governor General to do that.
But Rae said a move to prorogue would lack legitimacy, as it would clearly be to avoid a vote of confidence.
"Mr. Harper has no one to blame but himself for the fact that he's not been able to gain the confidence of the majority of the House," he told the CBC's senior parliamentary editor, Don Newman.
On Sunday, Flaherty said the government would deliver the budget on Jan. 27, about a month before one would normally be tabled in the House.
Shortly after Flaherty's announcement, Transport Minister John Baird said the minority government wouldn't try to eliminate federal civil servants' right to strike over the next couple of years, as pledged in last week's economic update.
On Saturday, Baird also announced the government had shelved its contentious plan to eliminate political party subsidies that are based on the number of votes received during elections.
With files from Reuters
midget-boyd91
Sr. Member
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Alright, I'm going to throw in my two cents, as I've been seeing red from this whole...mess.
I voted Conservative. I voted Conservative because I as well as the largest percentage since Confederation over 140 years ago did NOT want the Liberals in power. I did NOT vote for the NDP, they've always got their heads shoved so far up their own @sses that all they can do is talk $hit.
However, somehow, even though the Liberals wound up with the lowest popular support since Confederation in a general election less than two months ago, we could end up with one Prime Minister Stephane Dion. I am not pleased at all about this, quite frankly I'm quite pissed. The Conservatives were elected, and now in an attempt to nullify the election we had, we could end up with a country run by separatists (yeah, I live in Nova Scotia and could have someone who wants Canada to break part of my government how happy do you think that makes me?), communists sans balls, and a party with their worst ever vote.
If I bring out the pickup truck, anyone up for a trip to Parliament to verbally express opinions?
edited to remove non-sense
Midget
I voted Conservative. I voted Conservative because I as well as the largest percentage since Confederation over 140 years ago did NOT want the Liberals in power. I did NOT vote for the NDP, they've always got their heads shoved so far up their own @sses that all they can do is talk $hit.
However, somehow, even though the Liberals wound up with the lowest popular support since Confederation in a general election less than two months ago, we could end up with one Prime Minister Stephane Dion. I am not pleased at all about this, quite frankly I'm quite pissed. The Conservatives were elected, and now in an attempt to nullify the election we had, we could end up with a country run by separatists (yeah, I live in Nova Scotia and could have someone who wants Canada to break part of my government how happy do you think that makes me?), communists sans balls, and a party with their worst ever vote.
If I bring out the pickup truck, anyone up for a trip to Parliament to verbally express opinions?
edited to remove non-sense
Midget
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