Link to Article http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/05/31/grewal-tapes050531.html
Link To Recordings http://www.gurmantgrewal.ca/audio.asp
Was there any doubt that this actually went on within these "hallowed" walls?.....i think not. :
Those crazy Grewal's....
- Thread starter Blakey
- Start date
Link To Recordings http://www.gurmantgrewal.ca/audio.asp
Was there any doubt that this actually went on within these "hallowed" walls?.....i think not. :
D
dutchie
Guest
Based on what's happened in the last 18 months, I don't think this will have any impact. It only proves what has been blatantly obvious for a long, long, time: The Liberals will do anything, including embezzlement and bribery, to hold onto power. And the really disgusting thing about it? The Canadian public will re-elect them over irrational fears of the hidden agenda of the Tories that, even if 100% true, would provide far better Governance than what we have had for so long. They have carte blanche, and we gave it to them. We keep getting kicked in the teeth, but we stay because they have created a fear in us of the other side. It reminds me of an abusive husband and a battered wife.
Of course, when I say 'we', I refer to most Canadians.
Of course, when I say 'we', I refer to most Canadians.
- Reaction score
- 5,472
- Points
- 1,260
I'm neither a lawyer nor a police officer but it seems to my untutored ears that all three - Dosanjh, Grewal and Murphy - were involved, in some form or another, in soliciting a vote for a benefit or a benefit for a vote, both of which, I believe, are criminal acts. It seems to me that an elected Conservative MP, a Liberal minister of the crown and the chief of staff to the Prime Minister of Canada are all criminals.
If Martin and Harper have any tiny shred of integrity they will consign all three to the not so tender clutches of our criminal courts. Martin's excuse (Grewal came to us) is pure sophistry, true or not, and Harpers defence of the indefensible reflects no credit on him or his party. Dosanjh's excuse that the tape was of poor quality is laughable.
These men are disgraces to us all. The sooner they are all locked up the better.
If Martin and Harper have any tiny shred of integrity they will consign all three to the not so tender clutches of our criminal courts. Martin's excuse (Grewal came to us) is pure sophistry, true or not, and Harpers defence of the indefensible reflects no credit on him or his party. Dosanjh's excuse that the tape was of poor quality is laughable.
These men are disgraces to us all. The sooner they are all locked up the better.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
Edward Campbell said:
They came to Grewal and if you read the entire thing it becomes quite obvious that PM knew about it and was being kept informed about it. It is a blatant attempt to bribe a member of parliament The RCMP should march into the HoC and arrest all of them Martin included!
The last month has seen a degradation in our HoC that can not be put to rights with one election IMO. The old saying goes that if it aint broke, don't fix it, well it is broke and we by using the same broken process just slap a little more duct tape and crazy glue on each time the festering cracks apear.
Fire the lot of them!
Trinity
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
Are we ignoring the facts that the Conservatives tried to woo one of the
independants to vote for them using the exact same things???? Promises
of better things....
So how can the conservatives cry foul when they did the same in this election!??!?
independants to vote for them using the exact same things???? Promises
of better things....
So how can the conservatives cry foul when they did the same in this election!??!?
Lance Wiebe
Sr. Member
- Reaction score
- 6
- Points
- 230
Is there tapes to prove it?
A
aesop081
Guest
Thats how the liberals got the NDP on side...bought their support for 4.6 billion dollars (?).....plenty of tapes of that ;D
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
I can understand that some people hate the Liberals so much that they automatically pile all the blame for this business on them, and by extension - they hope - the Prime Minister. But consider the following:
1 ) Either Grewal did this all on his own or he did it with the knowledge of the Conservative party. So this was either a conspiracy by Grewal, or Grewal and the Conservatives, to entrap the Liberals by what are illegal means under privacy laws, or...
2) Maybe the Liberals did put out recruitment "feelers" to opposition parties, Grewal and his (MP) wife were interested if there was a juicy appointment in it, and when, as we can hear on the tape, Martin COS Tim Murphy made no solid offer, Grewal released this story to the media, realizing that the Conservatives were bound to hear about this eventually and realize they had a couple of disloyal free agents in their ranks, because...
3) What if the news story had been that Grewal and his wife were offered juicy cabinet, or Senate posts, that would be illegal on the part of the Liberals, but, though Grewal does want us to believe that there is evidence that the Liberals did this, never once does he ever say "They offered me such-and-such but I refused" - and that's certainly not on the tape and...
4) It's very interesting that the Conservatives have not exactly been playing this story up, considering they're so gung-ho to bring down the Liberals because of their "sleaze" but that it it is mostly the NDP and the BQ who are looking for answers on this.
I think it's probably true that the Liberals would be very happy if Conservative MPs crossed the floor to them, and by virtue of their running the federal government for most of the last century they are in a position to not discourage the hopes of those who might help them politically to some sort of a reward somewhere down the line. But that is just garden variety hardball politics and if people are shocked by that then maybe they should stop being so naive. But if Grewal initiated this on his own, he should be prosecuted for the wiretap and Stephen Harper has a couple of real weak reeds to lean on in those two BC ridings held by Mr and Mrs Grewal; and if he was put up to this by the Tories (which I actually doubt) then they would be guilty of participating in a conspiracy, not of the same scale, but of the same general variety as Watergate.
1 ) Either Grewal did this all on his own or he did it with the knowledge of the Conservative party. So this was either a conspiracy by Grewal, or Grewal and the Conservatives, to entrap the Liberals by what are illegal means under privacy laws, or...
2) Maybe the Liberals did put out recruitment "feelers" to opposition parties, Grewal and his (MP) wife were interested if there was a juicy appointment in it, and when, as we can hear on the tape, Martin COS Tim Murphy made no solid offer, Grewal released this story to the media, realizing that the Conservatives were bound to hear about this eventually and realize they had a couple of disloyal free agents in their ranks, because...
3) What if the news story had been that Grewal and his wife were offered juicy cabinet, or Senate posts, that would be illegal on the part of the Liberals, but, though Grewal does want us to believe that there is evidence that the Liberals did this, never once does he ever say "They offered me such-and-such but I refused" - and that's certainly not on the tape and...
4) It's very interesting that the Conservatives have not exactly been playing this story up, considering they're so gung-ho to bring down the Liberals because of their "sleaze" but that it it is mostly the NDP and the BQ who are looking for answers on this.
I think it's probably true that the Liberals would be very happy if Conservative MPs crossed the floor to them, and by virtue of their running the federal government for most of the last century they are in a position to not discourage the hopes of those who might help them politically to some sort of a reward somewhere down the line. But that is just garden variety hardball politics and if people are shocked by that then maybe they should stop being so naive. But if Grewal initiated this on his own, he should be prosecuted for the wiretap and Stephen Harper has a couple of real weak reeds to lean on in those two BC ridings held by Mr and Mrs Grewal; and if he was put up to this by the Tories (which I actually doubt) then they would be guilty of participating in a conspiracy, not of the same scale, but of the same general variety as Watergate.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 160
Pencil Tech said:
Do the initials B.S. mean anything to you? I think that was a pretty big hint there were traitors in the Conservative party. They wouldn't have needed another one. Of course, it's possible this guy would've been in trouble, but would the Conservatives care as much about him as they did with the aforementionned figurehead? I doubt it.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 110
Experts say Grewal tapes were altered
Two audio experts have independently concluded that the secret recordings made by MP Gurmant Grewal were edited.
John Dooher, a forensic audio engineer hired by CBC News, said Thursday there is a "crude" edit and something "amiss" about a section of tapes made by the B.C. member of Parliament.
The tape has Health Minister Ujjal Dosanjh talking about Grewal's future.
Grewal secretly recorded hours of conversations with Dosanjh and Tim Murphy, the prime minister's chief of staff, about switching parties.
"Right here, we hear what sounds like an edit. We have a change in the frequency spectrum so something has changed there," said Dooher, demonstrating the difference while at a sound board.
His conclusions are supported by Stevan Pausak, one of Canada's leading forensic-sound analysts. Pausak was asked by Canadian Press to carry out a similar examination. He said one of the tapes has an abnormal break, indicting a section may have been cut out.
Dooher said while more sophisticated testing could offer more certainty, he believes his original conclusion.
"This sounds to me, not only that this is an edit, but an edit done with something very crude," he said.
Dosanjh hinted Thursday that Conservative Leader Stephen Harper's office was involved in tampering with the tapes.
"The leader of the Opposition had the tapes for 14 days," Dosanjh said of contentious secret recordings. "What were they doing with them?"
On some of the tapes released this week â “ two weeks after Grewal first released excerpts â “ Dosanjh and Grewal can be heard talking in Punjabi about what future Grewal might face with the Liberals.
The health minister told reporters Thursday that "in at least two places, conversations had been spliced in" that had been taken out of context to make him look worse.
Dosanjh said two "independent experts" had confirmed that the tapes had been doctored, but gave no other details.
About 90 minutes of taped conversations were released early this week, though Grewal had said he recorded up to four hours of talks with Dosanjh and Prime Minister Paul Martin's chief of staff, Tim Murphy.
Approached by reporters on Parliament Hill later Thursday, Grewal denied the tapes had been altered before refusing to answer any more questions on the grounds that the RCMP were looking into the matter.
Grewal has said the Liberals came courting him, offering him inducements to switch parties in an effort to keep Martin's minority government alive.
The Conservatives want an inquiry conducted on their allegation that the Liberals tried to buy Grewal's vote, and the Bloc Québécois have asked the RCMP to investigate the matter.
Dosanjh and other top Liberals have said Grewal made the first approach, demanding a cabinet position for himself and an ambassadorship or Senate appointment for his wife, fellow British Columbia Conservative MP Nina Grewal, in return for not voting against the Liberals on a key May 19 confidence motion.
Dosanjh also questioned what had happened to two hours of conversation between himself and Grewal at the health minister's home, which he said would show him repeatedly insisting that no promises of advancement could be made.
"I thought he was coming to talk to me about my own personal experience," said Dosanjh, a former New Democrat premier of British Columbia who switched to the federal Liberal party in April 2004, just before the last general election.
"He wanted to turn that into a bargaining session."
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/06/02/dosanjh-tapes050602.html
For anyone looking for the transcripts.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/election2005/grewal_transcripts.html
The plot thickens.
Two audio experts have independently concluded that the secret recordings made by MP Gurmant Grewal were edited.
John Dooher, a forensic audio engineer hired by CBC News, said Thursday there is a "crude" edit and something "amiss" about a section of tapes made by the B.C. member of Parliament.
The tape has Health Minister Ujjal Dosanjh talking about Grewal's future.
Grewal secretly recorded hours of conversations with Dosanjh and Tim Murphy, the prime minister's chief of staff, about switching parties.
"Right here, we hear what sounds like an edit. We have a change in the frequency spectrum so something has changed there," said Dooher, demonstrating the difference while at a sound board.
His conclusions are supported by Stevan Pausak, one of Canada's leading forensic-sound analysts. Pausak was asked by Canadian Press to carry out a similar examination. He said one of the tapes has an abnormal break, indicting a section may have been cut out.
Dooher said while more sophisticated testing could offer more certainty, he believes his original conclusion.
"This sounds to me, not only that this is an edit, but an edit done with something very crude," he said.
Dosanjh hinted Thursday that Conservative Leader Stephen Harper's office was involved in tampering with the tapes.
"The leader of the Opposition had the tapes for 14 days," Dosanjh said of contentious secret recordings. "What were they doing with them?"
On some of the tapes released this week â “ two weeks after Grewal first released excerpts â “ Dosanjh and Grewal can be heard talking in Punjabi about what future Grewal might face with the Liberals.
The health minister told reporters Thursday that "in at least two places, conversations had been spliced in" that had been taken out of context to make him look worse.
Dosanjh said two "independent experts" had confirmed that the tapes had been doctored, but gave no other details.
About 90 minutes of taped conversations were released early this week, though Grewal had said he recorded up to four hours of talks with Dosanjh and Prime Minister Paul Martin's chief of staff, Tim Murphy.
Approached by reporters on Parliament Hill later Thursday, Grewal denied the tapes had been altered before refusing to answer any more questions on the grounds that the RCMP were looking into the matter.
Grewal has said the Liberals came courting him, offering him inducements to switch parties in an effort to keep Martin's minority government alive.
The Conservatives want an inquiry conducted on their allegation that the Liberals tried to buy Grewal's vote, and the Bloc Québécois have asked the RCMP to investigate the matter.
Dosanjh and other top Liberals have said Grewal made the first approach, demanding a cabinet position for himself and an ambassadorship or Senate appointment for his wife, fellow British Columbia Conservative MP Nina Grewal, in return for not voting against the Liberals on a key May 19 confidence motion.
Dosanjh also questioned what had happened to two hours of conversation between himself and Grewal at the health minister's home, which he said would show him repeatedly insisting that no promises of advancement could be made.
"I thought he was coming to talk to me about my own personal experience," said Dosanjh, a former New Democrat premier of British Columbia who switched to the federal Liberal party in April 2004, just before the last general election.
"He wanted to turn that into a bargaining session."
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/06/02/dosanjh-tapes050602.html
For anyone looking for the transcripts.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/election2005/grewal_transcripts.html
The plot thickens.
- Reaction score
- 26
- Points
- 430
Apparently the 'Original' tapes have been turned over to the RCMP, and what we have been listening to are copies that were transfered to a computer and then burnt onto CDs or DVDs. If he was using a 'Voice Activated' recorder there would be 'clicks'. CBC is an organization that is biased and a Liberal supporter, so what else would we expect to hear from their 'Experts'? The Conservatives have released another copy of the tapes today.
T
tikiguy
Guest
The truth of the situation is that you cannot expect the police to properly police the police. Same applies to the governing party or any other party.
However we do have the vote. So the government that we get is the one that we choose. None of this sort of conduct by these politicians should be of any surprise to anyone. (What are they always talking about in Tim Horton's, if not corruption in government?) So, suck it up and get on with it and get your two cents in, in the next election.
Or....get more involved. Join a party that you believe. No party you believe in? Start one, run as an independent, do something. Do anything. But standing there pointing at the Hill and saying "bad people" is just not going to cut it.
Well that's my rant for the year. Let the flames begin.
However we do have the vote. So the government that we get is the one that we choose. None of this sort of conduct by these politicians should be of any surprise to anyone. (What are they always talking about in Tim Horton's, if not corruption in government?) So, suck it up and get on with it and get your two cents in, in the next election.
Or....get more involved. Join a party that you believe. No party you believe in? Start one, run as an independent, do something. Do anything. But standing there pointing at the Hill and saying "bad people" is just not going to cut it.
Well that's my rant for the year. Let the flames begin.
Received the following from friend and associate Keith Birch Hamilton ON. Forwarded to the Toronto
Sun.
There is a new addition to the Oxford Dictionary of the Canadian Language, it is; "to grewel"
Definition: to seek things to which you have no entitlement but you do it because you think
you have leverage; it helps if you can record your conversations, surreptiously.
MacLeod
Sun.
There is a new addition to the Oxford Dictionary of the Canadian Language, it is; "to grewel"
Definition: to seek things to which you have no entitlement but you do it because you think
you have leverage; it helps if you can record your conversations, surreptiously.
MacLeod
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Woops 
OTTAWA (CP) - Air Canada is investigating an incident at Vancouver airport involving a Tory MP embroiled in a taping scandal.
Gurmant Grewal was spotted in a waiting area Saturday trying to get passengers to transport a package to Ottawa.
Airport sources won't confirm if there was a tape in the envelope the B.C. MP was trying to pass along.
"We can confirm that we are currently investigating an incident involving Mr. Grewal," said Air Canada spokeswoman Laura Cooke.
"I have no additional information to provide on this matter at this point."
Security regulations require any passenger must be on a plane carrying that person's luggage.
A source says Grewal was booked on a flight to Ottawa and passed through security to a waiting area, where he was overheard asking "a number of" passengers to transport the package.
Grewal turned over tapes last week to the RCMP from secret recordings he made in meetings with two top Liberals.
Several audio experts have agreed the tapes were altered, prompting the Conservatives to issue a statement admitting that small changes had been made to the recordings.
On the tapes, Grewal is overheard negotiating possible job opportunities with the Liberal party in exchange for his vote in a crucial confidence showdown last month.
Conservative spokesman Geoff Norquay said he was aware of Air Canada's allegation against Grewal and planned to make a statement later Monday.
Grewal did not respond to an e-mail request for an interview
OTTAWA (CP) - Air Canada is investigating an incident at Vancouver airport involving a Tory MP embroiled in a taping scandal.
Gurmant Grewal was spotted in a waiting area Saturday trying to get passengers to transport a package to Ottawa.
Airport sources won't confirm if there was a tape in the envelope the B.C. MP was trying to pass along.
"We can confirm that we are currently investigating an incident involving Mr. Grewal," said Air Canada spokeswoman Laura Cooke.
"I have no additional information to provide on this matter at this point."
Security regulations require any passenger must be on a plane carrying that person's luggage.
A source says Grewal was booked on a flight to Ottawa and passed through security to a waiting area, where he was overheard asking "a number of" passengers to transport the package.
Grewal turned over tapes last week to the RCMP from secret recordings he made in meetings with two top Liberals.
Several audio experts have agreed the tapes were altered, prompting the Conservatives to issue a statement admitting that small changes had been made to the recordings.
On the tapes, Grewal is overheard negotiating possible job opportunities with the Liberal party in exchange for his vote in a crucial confidence showdown last month.
Conservative spokesman Geoff Norquay said he was aware of Air Canada's allegation against Grewal and planned to make a statement later Monday.
Grewal did not respond to an e-mail request for an interview
- Reaction score
- 5,472
- Points
- 1,260
I just heard on the news that Grewal is taking 'stress leave.'
The editorial cartoon, below, from today's Globe and Mail, sums it up for me. They are all dirty: Dosanjh and Murphy and their boss, Martin and Grewal and his boss, Harper, too. Not one of them can meet the incredibly low standards they set for themselves.
Disgusting: all of it; all of them.
The editorial cartoon, below, from today's Globe and Mail, sums it up for me. They are all dirty: Dosanjh and Murphy and their boss, Martin and Grewal and his boss, Harper, too. Not one of them can meet the incredibly low standards they set for themselves.
Disgusting: all of it; all of them.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
MP Gurmant Grewal was spotted in a waiting area Saturday trying to get passengers to transport a package to Ottawa.
http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050606.wgrewal0606/BNStory/National/
http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050606.wgrewal0606/BNStory/National/
D
dutchie
Guest
: : :
Western ex-Alliance MPs are at it again. The Liberals must just love these guys, they do their work for them! What is wrong with these people? Grewal goes through airport security, and then tries to have a package put aboard a plane without him actually boarding the plane? Surely an Indo-Canadian MP from the Lower Mainland knows you can't 'smuggle' a package onto an airplane that you yourself are not boarding. Security at Vancouver Intl are a little sensitive to this, as the Air India bomb was placed aboard the plane in this way, by an Indo-Canadian no less. What in God's name was he thinking?
Grewal is this year's Randy White. MP White is the MP I feel may have cost the Tories the election a year ago. An interview he did with a religious organization came out mid-campaign with some very damaging quotes, mainly to do with same-sex marriage, not-withstanding clause, all mixed with his personal religious views. He made a lot of comments he was not in a position to make, and they were definitely off-message.
The sooner the leadership of the Tories purges the likes of Grewal and White, the better. Thankfully, MP White is not running for re-election.
: :Western ex-Alliance MPs are at it again. The Liberals must just love these guys, they do their work for them! What is wrong with these people? Grewal goes through airport security, and then tries to have a package put aboard a plane without him actually boarding the plane? Surely an Indo-Canadian MP from the Lower Mainland knows you can't 'smuggle' a package onto an airplane that you yourself are not boarding. Security at Vancouver Intl are a little sensitive to this, as the Air India bomb was placed aboard the plane in this way, by an Indo-Canadian no less. What in God's name was he thinking?
Grewal is this year's Randy White. MP White is the MP I feel may have cost the Tories the election a year ago. An interview he did with a religious organization came out mid-campaign with some very damaging quotes, mainly to do with same-sex marriage, not-withstanding clause, all mixed with his personal religious views. He made a lot of comments he was not in a position to make, and they were definitely off-message.
The sooner the leadership of the Tories purges the likes of Grewal and White, the better. Thankfully, MP White is not running for re-election.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Jeez guys, you really have to watch your biases.
If you said this in a newpaper, or in open forum, or to the persons involved - you would be sued. Here we have someone accusing someone else of conspiracy to commit an illegal act for god's sake! I may not like the liberals anymore than you do, but I will not stoop to slander and/or libel. It really dilutes the point of the argument, don't cha think?
Hell, if someone wanted to, they could certainly make life difficult for the owners of the Board here for allowing actionable wording. I kinda think it is against the posting policy, anyway.
If you said this in a newpaper, or in open forum, or to the persons involved - you would be sued. Here we have someone accusing someone else of conspiracy to commit an illegal act for god's sake! I may not like the liberals anymore than you do, but I will not stoop to slander and/or libel. It really dilutes the point of the argument, don't cha think?
Hell, if someone wanted to, they could certainly make life difficult for the owners of the Board here for allowing actionable wording. I kinda think it is against the posting policy, anyway.
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