They owe us

[CrazyCanuck]

It seems that the French and Germans still won’t budge on the caveat issue.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20061128/harper_nato_061128/20061128?hub=TopStories

This I honestly do not understand, you would think that of all the nations involved in Afghanistan they would be the most willing to fight. After all tens of thousands of Canadians died liberating France and tens of thousands more were willing to lay down their lives if the Soviets ever invaded Germany. IMO they should be standing shoulder to soldier with you guys over in Afghanistan, it is the very least that they owe us for what we have done for them; their memory’s must be even shorter term than Canadian politicians.

 

[FredDaHead]

So we owe Great Britain for keeping the Americans out when they tried to invade us, right? And the French for, y'know, settling "Canada", otherwise we'd be a whole bunch of other American states.

Besides, since when do people, let alone nations, owe anything for what another might have done? That's like saying that because I might buy a can of coke at the canex, I owe the canex a buck and some change.

This is a very contentious issue with severe possible repercussion; I don't think throwing a fit and saying "they owe us" is going to help at all.

 

[armyvern]

Not bad.

Any guests from CTV viewing this thread tonight, you might want to fix this photo caption up. I do not think Turkey would be impressed to hear that Latvian troops are marching through their streets univited.

Photo 3 to the article linked below:

Latvian troops march through the almost deserted streets of the old city of Riga, Turkey on Tuesday. (AP / Mindaugas Kulbis)

I believe those troops are marching in Riga, Latvia.

 

[FredDaHead]

Photo 3 to the article linked below:

I believe those troops are marching in Riga, Latvia.

Latvia invaded Turkey? When did THAT happen? And since when does Latvia do anything newsworthy, anyway?

 

[George Wallace]

This I honestly do not understand, you would think that of all the nations involved in Afghanistan they would be the most willing to fight. After all tens of thousands of Canadians died liberating France and tens of thousands more were willing to lay down their lives if the Soviets ever invaded Germany. IMO they should be standing shoulder to soldier with you guys over in Afghanistan, it is the very least that they owe us for what we have done for them; their memory’s must be even shorter term than Canadian politicians.

You know it is nice to have 'selective memory'.  Seems to me that the Canadian Government did exactly the same thing to NATO back in the 1990's.  We pulled our troops out of Europe and said we would send money instead.  We pulled out of Cyprus.  We have pulled out of the Balkins.  We are pulling out of the Golan.  Nice glass house we live in.

 

[CrazyCanuck]

I believe it's a slightly different situation this time around, as this is more a war than a peacekeeping mission, when we pulled out of those places that you have listed there was really no more need for us to be there. Plus they aren't really pulling out, they're just there and rather stagnant. As to oweing the british for 1812 i admit i had not thought of that but haven't we almost always been there forthem? (with the exception of the suez). Again I admit that the name of this topic was poorly chosen a better name may have been "Why aren't they fighting with us?" I guess what I was trying to get at was is that allies who say they will be there for you should be there.

 

[FredDaHead]

what I was trying to get at was is that allies who say they will be there for you should be there.

So, do you believe we're bad allies to the US because we're not in Iraq? We keep telling the US we'll stand by them, and then we just conveniently decide not to. By your logic, we're at least as bad as France and Germany.

 

[CrazyCanuck]

But we don't have the troops for Iraq, France and Germany have more than the amount of troops that Nato wishes to move south yet they won't

 

[Trinity]

But we don't have the troops for Iraq, France and Germany have more than the amount of troops that Nato wishes to move south yet they won't

Not now..

but we had troops for Iraq when the conflict started.
We very easily could have gone in with the Americans or at
least supported the war in other ways but we've denounced
the war in Iraq publically.

Now..
However, we are technically supporting the US by freeing up troops
in the sandbox to go to Iraq.  But that is more of a matter of
political conveniences because we can swallow the mission of Afghanistan,
but not Iraq. So I wouldn't quantify it as supporting Iraq but a
lucky coincidence.

 

[cplcaldwell]

Yehh, I really don't want to go there, I have enough trouble ordering at Harvey's without having to make the mental note...

"Freedom Fries, not French Fries,
Freedom Fries, not French Fries,
Freedom Fries, not French Fries,
Freedom Fries, not French Fries...."

and besides who could live in a world without BMW? or Mercedes? or Bratwurst?

Seriously.

We should just do what we need to do and not worry about them.

Canadians make a big deal about doing the right thing, stepping up to the plate, punching above our weight... A wise fellow once said something to the effect that 'you shall be known by the things you have accomplished'. ( I see you there, padre, just proving I'm not a complete pagan...)

We've punted a couple of times in the last fifteen years, time to go for it. IMHO.

Let's do this, we had currency in the world for years based on Vimy and Normandy and a dozen other places. I say shut up and get up the hill, once the place is free and stable we will be able to, without sarcasm or undue pride, say what we mean and have people listen. Really, screw the French, they're just being French, as to the Germans, well, gettin' pounded at your national game twice in one century is enough to make one a bit trepiditious eh?

Next time there's a shite storm. we'll be listened to, and for what we stand for, I'm all for it...

Self righteous patriotic rant ends, over....

 

[George Wallace]

The French were rescuing Canadians in Western Africa; Ivory Coast, Chad, etc.  We weren't there.  The French also took some very serious casualties in Afghanistan.

Not only did the French pull out their Special Forces, but so did the Australians when they called back their SAS, and the Brits who brought their Para's home.  Nothing said about them.  They all rotated in Regular troops instead.

The German Constitution, much like the Japanese Constitution, required amendments so that it's troops could leave the country.  Now they are active participants in NATO.

Even if they are doing 'safe jobs', as you say, and not venturing out, they are still there.  If they weren't, then we would have to do those jobs too.  Is it right?  Perhaps it is not perfect, but it is still some assistance.  

 

[cplcaldwell]

Yes, it's a mugs game to engage in this sort of thing, does anyone here keep a ledger of favours done for a friend? Or expect the friend to do the same?

I suspect this issue is the thin edge of a wedge that certain groups will use to drive into the mission, better to do the job and to look at the history, even the recent history, in a manner demonstrated by Mr Wallace.

Who will want us for friends if we quit? Who will want us for friends if we bitch and moan? Rest assured the message is being passed, the point is being made.

No matter what contribution the Germans and French are there in some context, take it FWIW

Press on.

 

[Stout]

  Personally I would like to see Canadians get this job done by any means necessary and if the French or Germans won't help....well thats just too bad for them.  WE SHALL GET THE GLORY!!!!!!!!! :cheers:

 

[Kat Stevens]

  Personally I would like to see Canadians get this job done by any means necessary and if the French or Germans won't help....well thats just too bad for them.  WE SHALL GET THE GLORY!!!!!!!!! :cheers:

Ummmm, what?  Ever been shot at?  Not much glory in it.

 

[HItorMiss]

the Brits who brought their Para's home.  Nothing said about them.  They all rotated in Regular troops instead.

Not quite accurate George they rotated in the Royal Marine Commando not exactualy a regular unit. Less then the SAS sure but they did bring in the SBS with them so....one could say they actualy upped the anti slightly.

 

[HItorMiss]

+1 Kat

I didn't see any glory and I'm sure the others here who have had that happen would agree with me.

 

[aesop081]

  Personally I would like to see Canadians get this job done by any means necessary and if the French or Germans won't help....well thats just too bad for them.  WE SHALL GET THE GLORY!!!!!!!!! :cheers:

No glory in war........

 

[cplcaldwell]

WE SHALL GET THE GLORY!!!!!!!!!

I do think that was a bad choice of words, moving along...  if Glory means credibility or is a by product of doing the right thing, great, I'll take it and put it on the shelf besides my bowling trophies....

Enhancing Canada's say, remember because of what we stand for, and doing the right thing are the things I want....

 

[Cloud Cover]

This is a dumb topic. Assuming [without deciding] that "they" do "owe us", Afghanistan is hardly the place to start calling in old debts. There is far, far worse approaching around the corner.

 

[Roy Harding]

  Personally I would like to see Canadians get this job done by any means necessary and if the French or Germans won't help....well thats just too bad for them.  WE SHALL GET THE GLORY!!!!!!!!! :cheers:

Stout:

Somehow, I get the feeling that you've never served, in any capacity.

As someone above has said - there is no glory in war.