Therapeutic Cannabis use

[Stoker]

Its not just the unknown long term effects of heavy MM use that are scary, the limited Health Canada oversight on this herbal remedy is showing some toxic/banned pesticides being used in production:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/canadians-not-told-about-banned-pesticide-found-in-medical-marijuana-supply/article33443887/

The full Globe investigation is here: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/investigations/globe-investigation-whats-in-your-weed-we-tested-dispensary-marijuana-to-findout/article31144496/

Wow that's a real health hazard. You would think in a industry for MM  a better product would be produced. They better clean up their act and have better QC before this goes mainstream. 

 

[medicineman]

Any treatment plan should involve eventual cessation of use, giving someone any drug willy nilly without any comprehensive action plan is a recipe for disaster, the rise of opioid addiction is a perfect example of that.  Doctors cutting blank cheques on drugs is not what people need.

Agreed...see a little too much of that these days, and not just with narcotics.

MM

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

So is the problem not so much end-users, but the seeming never-ending supply of Doctors who just want you 'in and out' quickly and to make sure you return to the office for more fast billings, keep you addicted to something/anything?

A snippet from an article RG posted in the info thread.

Yet the report does appear to undercut one of the main arguments put forward by those pushing for access to medical marijuana, namely that it reduces the use of painkillers and other drugs among veterans.
The auditors found a negligible change in the use of prescription drugs, including narcotics and opiates, by injured ex-soldiers who started receiving medical marijuana.

Now I only know a handful of MM users but the point seems to be that it has taken them off 'harder' drugs.[if you will]  But this, according to the article, doesn't seem to be the standard.  I know where I work I have advocated over and over that they come off everything and we try to 'start over' with a clean slate.........but heavens forbid a Doctor steps on another Doctor's toes, so lets just add my 2 cents worth of drugs to the mix. 

I wish I could share lots more about this story but can't........quick synopsis,...severe ADHD,....came off everything and within a month of repeated 'Groundhog Days' my partner and I had him sitting and reading books in the day room.  The original plan??  Adding something.....

We put Doctors up on a pedestal too much, these days they have no more access to information then 'average' people.

 

[Stoker]

So is the problem not so much end-users, but the seeming never-ending supply of Doctors who just want you 'in and out' quickly and to make sure you return to the office for more fast billings, keep you addicted to something/anything?

A snippet from an article RG posted in the info thread.

Now I only know a handful of MM users but the point seems to be that it has taken them off 'harder' drugs.[if you will]  But this, according to the article, doesn't seem to be the standard.  I know where I work I have advocated over and over that they come off everything and we try to 'start over' with a clean slate.........but heavens forbid a Doctor steps on another Doctor's toes, so lets just add my 2 cents worth of drugs to the mix. 

I wish I could share lots more about this story but can't........quick synopsis,...severe ADHD,....came off everything and within a month of repeated 'Groundhog Days' my partner and I had him sitting and reading books in the day room.  The original plan??  Adding something.....

We put Doctors up on a pedestal too much, these days they have no more access to information then 'average' people.

From what I have read some have gotten off up to 15 pills a day and now only use MM. To play devils advocate here with someone overusing MM is there not a danger of going to harder drugs? Some of the concerns with MM is the amount of veterans using up to 10 grams a day from the get go when a lower amount would sufficed. No matter how you slice it, MM is an addictive drug and has hazards, perhaps less than what is prescribed by doctors but hazardous all the same.

 

[mariomike]

To play devils advocate here with someone overusing MM is there not a danger of going to harder drugs?

I'm not an expert. But, I have heard that before,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Twre6ItGEI

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

From what I have read some have gotten off up to 15 pills a day and now only use MM.

Now even though I'm not sold on MM.....that would be in the 'win' column in my book.  Then like others have previously stated......a program to slowly lower, like methadone is supposed to be.

 

[Stoker]

Now even though I'm not sold on MM.....that would be in the 'win' column in my book.  Then like others have previously stated......a program to slowly lower, like methadone is supposed to be.

Bruce I agree but I think there will be a outcry from the MM community and that's the problem with a addictive drug.

 

[BinRat55]

From what I have read some have gotten off up to 15 pills a day and now only use MM. To play devils advocate here with someone overusing MM is there not a danger of going to harder drugs? Some of the concerns with MM is the amount of veterans using up to 10 grams a day from the get go when a lower amount would sufficed. No matter how you slice it, MM is an addictive drug and has hazards, perhaps less than what is prescribed by doctors but hazardous all the same.

Again, while I wasn't born yesterday I am under no illusion that there isn't abuse out there - human nature, sad but true. Marijuana is not a verified "gateway" drug. Used recreationally, users experience a high. I honestly believe that there are people with an "addictive" tendency who will attempt to either duplicate the high using another drug or better it. With me (and I will assume many other MM users) I am not looking for the high, but the effect on my demons.

To say that a "lower amount would have sufficed" is not a call any one of us can make really - I don't roll and smoke I bake, infuse and brew as well as manufacture capsules and vape from time to time. For me, 5 gr daily is literally just enough. I fear later on that my tolerance will increase and I will be forced to not only ask for more, but justify it to EVERYONE who feels they need to question whether or not I am a "pot head".

I was on Effexor, Paxil, Zoloft, Teva-Praxin, Wellbutrin, Trazadone, Zopaclone... and one more that I can't seem to remember at the moment... I don't frigging care WHO you are - this is a zombie cocktail from hell. And I STILL suffered from debilitating nightmares, cold sweats and at times, uncontrollable shakes. And that was just at night! I never had a solid shit for over a year. When you hold that many pills in your hand, you stare at them for minutes. Nausea sets in at the thought of having to take them. There were days I couldn't even get them all down. I cannot stress enough to those who have never had to go through this - I really don't care if I'm saving the government money or costing them more - we are veterans of the Canadian Armed Forces and we deserve to feel somewhat normal.

I no longer have "pill anxiety" as I no longer take ANY pills. I am recovering, learning and living once more.

Thank you Fabian Henry.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Bruce I agree but I think there will be a outcry from the MM community and that's the problem with a addictive drug.

Sorry, but that's too broad a brush.  The MEDIA would only give airtime to those who complain.........just like any subject you can think of.

A thousand people protesting that I'm a stooge would make the front page but the 34 million who just plain adore me and stayed home don't exist. ;D

 

[PuckChaser]

Found this on CTV today. While some may glance over the info, the article starts asking some real good questions and provide some info on how fast the MM industry is growing, and perhaps taking vets for a ride. Highlights in quotes are all from same link:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/hundreds-of-veterans-likely-affected-by-federal-cuts-to-medicinal-pot-allotment-1.3226332

The figures are contained in an internal Veterans Affairs Canada audit that raises broad questions about the use of pot by veterans, including claims that it reduces the use of painkillers and other addictive drugs.

...

The number of clients - and the associated cost - has exploded since 2014, when regulatory changes at Health Canada and a new Veterans Affairs policy allowed up to 10 grams per veteran per day.

According to the audit, more than 1,700 injured ex-soldiers were being reimbursed for medical marijuana as of the end of last March. Just 26 per cent were getting three grams or less each day.

The auditors did not say why such large amounts of marijuana were being authorized, but they did find that hundreds of veterans had started with between eight and 10 grams per day right off the bat.

Interviews with frontline staff, meanwhile, found veterans taking one to two grams per day, "at appropriate times, are managing well."

...

Anyone requiring more than three grams can submit an application to the department along with a note from a medical specialist.

...

Part of the challenge has been the widespread anecdotal evidence from veterans about the benefits of medical weed versus the lack of scientific proof, particularly when it comes to mental injuries like PTSD.

Yet the report does appear to undercut one of the main arguments put forward by those pushing for access to medical marijuana, namely that it reduces the use of painkillers and other drugs among veterans.

The auditors found a negligible change in the use of prescription drugs, including narcotics and opiates, by injured ex-soldiers who started receiving medical marijuana.

The report also found that more than 200 veterans had received authorization for medical marijuana from a doctor or nurse who was outside their home province.

One possible explanation was that the veteran worked in a different province than they lived, the report said, though it was also possible their regular doctor would not approve them getting pot.

Interestingly enough, Marijuana for Trauma (2013) was formed just before the explosion of vets getting MM prescriptions. You cannot advertise prescription medication in Canada, yet these groups are allowed to flaunt that law and push meds directly to patients? Massive issues with doctors being paid to write scripts for certain meds in Canada to get kickbacks.

Why should such a large number of people immediately go right to the maximum covered dosage?

If MM is the perfect PTSD/Pain medication, why is there a negligible change in narcotic painkiller prescriptions once those individuals are prescribed MM?

We deride VAC employees who are not doctors making medical pronouncements on our injuries, but let random people on the internet and in "Healing Centers" tell us what drugs to take and how much.

 

[Stoker]

Found this on CTV today. While some may glance over the info, the article starts asking some real good questions and provide some info on how fast the MM industry is growing, and perhaps taking vets for a ride. Highlights in quotes are all from same link:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/hundreds-of-veterans-likely-affected-by-federal-cuts-to-medicinal-pot-allotment-1.3226332

Interestingly enough, Marijuana for Trauma (2013) was formed just before the explosion of vets getting MM prescriptions. You cannot advertise prescription medication in Canada, yet these groups are allowed to flaunt that law and push meds directly to patients? Massive issues with doctors being paid to write scripts for certain meds in Canada to get kickbacks.

Why should such a large number of people immediately go right to the maximum covered dosage?

If MM is the perfect PTSD/Pain medication, why is there a negligible change in narcotic painkiller prescriptions once those individuals are prescribed MM?

We deride VAC employees who are not doctors making medical pronouncements on our injuries, but let random people on the internet and in "Healing Centers" tell us what drugs to take and how much.

I also read that many MM prescriptions is being written by a few doctors and that was one of the warning signs that the auditor general had when VAC scaled back the amount allowed.

 

[BinRat55]

Interestingly enough, Marijuana for Trauma (2013) was formed just before the explosion of vets getting MM prescriptions. You cannot advertise prescription medication in Canada, yet these groups are allowed to flaunt that law and push meds directly to patients? Massive issues with doctors being paid to write scripts for certain meds in Canada to get kickbacks.

First, Marijuana For Trauma does not "flaunt" laws and "push" meds directly to people. I truly respect you and your posts Puck, however you are out of your lane here. Why don't you pop in to see me sometime? We'll go for a coffee and I would be more than happy to walk into MFT with you for a tour of what they ACTUALLY do...

Why should such a large number of people immediately go right to the maximum covered dosage?

How on EARTH is this a known fact? Viagra is way more costly than a gram of weed - do you happen to know what dosage I started with THAT drug? My medical history is protected from others.

If MM is the perfect PTSD/Pain medication, why is there a negligible change in narcotic painkiller prescriptions once those individuals are prescribed MM?

There is no such thing as a "perfect" med. The "perfect" med would be a glass of water and a good night's sleep. THAT ain't happening any time soon. Maybe the "negligible change" can be attributed to the fact that many of us still have the scripts for narcotic painkillers on our files and it's assumed that we are still taking them.

We deride VAC employees who are not doctors making medical pronouncements on our injuries, but let random people on the internet and in "Healing Centers" tell us what drugs to take and how much.

Puck - you are beyond cynicism... why practice it?

 

[Stoker]

Sorry, but that's too broad a brush.  The MEDIA would only give airtime to those who complain.........just like any subject you can think of.

A thousand people protesting that I'm a stooge would make the front page but the 34 million who just plain adore me and stayed home don't exist. ;D

Point taken, I still think there will be a outcry though. I say this from what I saw over at Green Veterans Canada and the claims of "Big Pharma" and lots of other unfounded stuff. Its their right to complain though.

 

[BinRat55]

... over at Green Veterans Canada ...

I don't know this term... is this a real thing or just more sarcastic undertone?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

In this post here.
http://army.ca/forums/threads/123208.0.html

 

[mariomike]

Puck - you are beyond cynicism... why practice it?

 

[Stoker]

I don't know this term... is this a real thing or just more sarcastic undertone?

No, its a facebook page that a site member created. It was very educational on the MM veteran community. Sadly instead of rational arguments its filled lots of spam and "free living" but still educational all the same.

 

[BinRat55]

In this post here.
http://army.ca/forums/threads/123208.0.html

Thanks... and thanks Tess - twice!

 

[muskrat89]

If MM is the perfect PTSD/Pain medication, why is there a negligible change in narcotic painkiller prescriptions once those individuals are prescribed MM?

I can only comment with a single, statistically insignificant anecdote...  My wife is a MMJ User. Quadriplegic with Spinal Muscular Atrophy her whole life, uses a wheelchair - progressive disease with no cure. Several years ago she had a foot amputated below the knee. After almost a year on various opiates with very little effect (other than negative side effects, I suppose) - she tried MMJ. It was literally the first time in almost a year she had been pain free. It was an emotional event for her. She was done immediately with numerous other prescribed medications.

 

[PuckChaser]

How on EARTH is this a known fact? Viagra is way more costly than a gram of weed - do you happen to know what dosage I started with THAT drug? My medical history is protected from others.

Viagra has tons of scientific, peer-reviewed evidence to backup dosages. I'd rather we end up spending $50 a gram on MM if we had the kind of research and clinical trials/testing that actual prescription medications are subject to, so that we know exactly how it effects the body and is safe.

There is no such thing as a "perfect" med. The "perfect" med would be a glass of water and a good night's sleep. THAT ain't happening any time soon. Maybe the "negligible change" can be attributed to the fact that many of us still have the scripts for narcotic painkillers on our files and it's assumed that we are still taking them.

I would hope that the VAC audit caught scripts that weren't being filled, and only cited the negligible change in that the scripts are still being written, filled and claimed. Then again, hope is not a valid COA and VAC has some people working for them who aren't much brighter than a glowstick an hour after its reached its max life...

Puck - you are beyond cynicism... why practice it?

I'm not deliberately trying to be cynical, but everything I've seen from MM, especially with veterans, is being hijacked by the "natural" medicine and free living folks (that Chief alluded to). Those same people refuse to allow "Big Pharma" access to properly apply a scientific testing protocol to get the most out of CBD (probably the best component that could have medical use) because they're "evil" and trying to take away their medication. That screams to me as self-medication no different than someone downing a bottle of rum after a hard day at work. Its a recipe for disaster mixing veterans with mental illnesses and free/easy access to a drug that they can basically self-prescribe and self-dose.

If I walked into a doctor and asked for Percocet because my knee hurts and insisted it was the only thing that could help but only at this high dosage, I'd immediately be flagged as an addict. There's not much difference here, other than there's real science behind Percocet being highly addictive and dangerous in high doses. We don't have that info on MM because people don't want it to happen for whatever reason.