The "Wanting To Join Another Military" Thread- Them To Us- Us To Them

[Canadian.Trucker]

We don't need the arrogance you have just displayed.


We have quite enough already.

*high fives Jim*
Thanks for the shout out!

 

[Danjanou]

There may be a bit more info for you over on ARRSE, but it would be from the point of view of UK Forces members looking to transfer. I've definitely read the posts on both the OZ and Kiwi threads where advice is being provided by Brits who havemade the jump.

Be carefull..... ARRSE isn't as forgiving as this forum!!!

Cheers
Noneck

Really I find them friendly helpful sorts  >

 

[dimsum]

Good Day All,

I did a search on this topic in these forums and the only relevant thread I found was here (http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/16844.150.html) which quickly diverged to being singularly focused on the British military.

I am currently in CF and my initial contract is up in 2015.  It is still early, I know, but knowing how long things take I want to start looking into it now and possibly applying.

New Zealand and Australia have programs that will allow Canadians with military experience to move laterally to their forces to take the same trade and rank with minimal training.  It looks like they may be able to pay to move you to there and eventually get your citizenship there.  These programs can be found here

http://www.defencecareers.mil.nz/how-to-join/overseas-applicants

http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/recruitmentcentre/canIJoin/overseasApplicants/Default.aspx

I am considering doing this for a number of reasons (which I am not going to get into).  My concern though is that to do that is a really big decision.  There's a lot of information that is not available on those sites, and while I am trying to get ahold of their recruiters, I am looking for people who have done one of these moves, or knows someone who has.  I want to make sure that if I go with my wife that we wont be making a terrible decision where we are losing all these great benefits, that we will be dirt poor and have a poor standard of living, where we have no chance of advancements opportunities, that we will become depressed from being lonely and feeling isolated having left all our friends and family behind.

Basically I am trying to get as much information as I can before I make a large move.

I have had limited dealings with the Aus Army while posted here, but from what I can tell the ADF is paid very well.  This is partially due to the high cost of living in Australia.  NZ has a high cost of living (visiting there in July last year, gas was $2/litre) but nowhere near the same pay as the ADF.

Base-wise, the Aus Army have bases fairly close to cities (Sydney and Brisbane) but their main focus is in Townsville (~100,000 people in central coast of Queensland) and Darwin.  There is a group out in Perth and Adelaide as well.  Generally speaking, the ADF don't tend to station their bases far from centres of population, with some notable exceptions.

In the RAAF, there are tons of Canadians who have moved over.  Most really enjoy the transfer, but they had to give up their pension.  Australia has something called "superannuation" which isn't guaranteed like a pension; I'm not totally sure of the ins and outs of that. 

There is a bit of a culture shock going to Oz (and to a bit of a lesser extent, NZ) as they will seem fairly "British" at first until you realize (personal opinion) that Aussies are essentially the same as Americans, and Kiwis are essentially the Cdn equivalents.  This transfers a bit to the ADF as well; they have just instituted their version of SHARP training over the last year and I'm not convinced it's really working all that well here.  There is still an underlying "frat boy" mentality to a lot of Aussie culture.

Not sure what your wife does, but getting certifications may be an issue.  Partners of folks I know have had to either re-train or do something else entirely as some (most?) Cdn quals don't transfer over. 

I don't know (and won't ask) why you're considering the swap, but there *may* be a bit of "grass is greener on the other side" thing.  I like being posted here with the RCAF, but would happily return to Canada if, say I was getting posted to Victoria or Comox again (k, fine even Ottawa). 

If you want some more info regarding the ADF, I have contacts in the Aus Army, RAN and RAAF who you can chat to.  I add in the other two because not knowing your trade in the CF, our "purple" trades are split between the three services and so a clerk could be either AA, RAN or RAAF.  Shoot me a PM and we can go from there.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I am afraid that as of July 11 you are pretty much shit out of luck

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2360771/Commonwealth-citizens-live-Britain-years-joining-Armed-Forces-ministers-try-cut-military-numbers.html

Commonwealth Army heroes 'betrayed' as the MoD brings in test forcing them to live in Britain for five years before signing up
Defence Minister Mark Francois makes announcement to MPs
Qualification, which was scrapped in 1998, to be reinstated immediately
Government restructuring Armed Forces following 2010 Review
By IAN DRURY, DEFENCE CORRESPONDENT
PUBLISHED: 18:16 GMT, 11 July 2013 | UPDATED: 07:38 GMT, 12 July 2013
  713 shares 129 View
comments
Soldiers from Commonwealth countries have been banned from joining Britain’s Armed Forces unless they have lived here for five years.
The residency test, which came into force yesterday, will prevent overseas recruits joining immediately as they do now.
The Ministry of Defence reinstated the requirement, which was scrapped in 1998, as it attempts to reduce the size of the military by nearly 30,000 troops.
Cutbacks: Commonwealth citizens will be require to have lived in Britain for five years before they are eligible to join the Armed Forces
Cutbacks: Commonwealth citizens will be require to have lived in Britain for five years before they are eligible to join the Armed Forces
OUR COMMONWEALTH HEROES
Johnson Beharry, from Grenada, was awarded the Victoria Cross
Recruits from Commonwealth countries have a long and distinguished history of serving in the Armed Forces.
In the First World War, 1.2million men from the Indian Army fought alongside the Allies with 74,000 losing their lives.
Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, and South Africa all lent troops during World War Two.
And Britain's Commonwealth companions have proved to be brave in the battlefield.
Johnson Beharry, pictured above, originally from Grenada, was awarded the Victoria Cross for his valour while serving in Iraq.
Others to have been given the highest military honour include two Australians Keith Payne and Rayene Stewart Simpson for their actions in the Vietnam War.
But the controversial move could lead to accusations of betrayal because Commonwealth troops have shed blood for the UK on the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan – as well as in previous conflicts such as the two world wars.
In the past decade 24 Commonwealth soldiers have been killed in conflict. Dozens more have been wounded.
If the rules had been in place when Sergeant Johnson Beharry arrived in Britain from the Caribbean island of Grenada in 1999, he would not have been permitted to join the Army in 2001.

And the soldier, who serves with the 1st Battalion the Princess of Wales’s Royal Regiment, would not have been on the Iraq battlefield in 2004, when he won the Victoria Cross for twice saving comrades in ambushes.
Typically, 500 Commonwealth soldiers are among the 7,000 new recruits each year and the residency rule could leave the Forces perilously overstretched if they failed to recruit enough British soldiers.
Throughout the infantry, about one in ten soldiers is from outside Britain. Many join units that fail to recruit their full complement of soldiers  at home.
But Armed Forces Minister Mark Francois said the rule was unavoidable as the military coped with sweeping cuts. In a written ministerial statement he acknowledged the contribution of Commonwealth citizens serving in the British Armed Forces.
But he added: ‘In order to deliver the future structure of the Armed Forces under the requirements of the Strategic Defence and Security Review, we are already reducing their size by adjusting our recruit intake and making some redundancies.
‘We are confident that we will still  be able to meet our recruitment targets.’
Change: The ruling had been scrapped in 1998 but is now being reinstated, effective immediately
Change: The ruling had been scrapped in 1998 but is now being reinstated, effective immediately
The changes will not affect Gurkhas or those from the Republic of Ireland, Cyprus and Malta.
Labour defence spokesman Jim Murphy said: ‘When rightly recruiting those from the UK, ministers must never undermine the many sacrifices and commitments made by those from the Commonwealth who have served on frontlines across the globe in the name of British national security.
‘The country will want to know this is based on the best possible military advice and nothing else.’
Colonel Richard Kemp, who  commanded British forces in Afghanistan, praised the long tradition of ‘sterling service’ that Commonwealth soldiers have provided – ‘and still provide’ – in the Army.
He said the Armed Forces had ‘depended heavily’ on Commonwealth troops to bring units up to strength and accused the MoD of using ineffective recruiting techniques.
But he added: ‘However, at a time when our Armed Forces are reducing to the lowest levels in more than a century, it is right that priority should be given to British citizens.’
An MoD spokesman said: ‘At a time when we are having to reduce the  size of our Armed Forces, it is only right we focus on recruiting  UK personnel.’

 

[UnwiseCritic]

I wonder if this will affect people with current previous military experience? My best guess is yes.

I was in the application process for the royal marines not too long ago. But it's not to be right now. But when I was in England at a recruiting center I asked if commonwealth citizens suffered any "discrimination" in the selection process. Officially it was a no, but he said they will take the Brit if they have equal potential. However they do like commonwealth members with previous service as they are less of a risk.

I was hoping to try again down the road, so hopefully this changes. Or foreign military service bears some weight on the choices.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I wonder if this will affect people with current previous military experience? My best guess is yes.

I was in the application process for the royal marines not too long ago. But it's not to be right now. But when I was in England at a recruiting center I asked if commonwealth citizens suffered any "discrimination" in the selection process. Officially it was a no, but he said they will take the Brit if they have equal potential. However they do like commonwealth members with previous service as they are less of a risk.

I was hoping to try again down the road, so hopefully this changes. Or foreign military service bears some weight on the choices.

Yes it most definitely will, I have also heard that they are not renewing any soldiers contracts who are from commonwealth countries once their TOS are up as a way of meeting force reductions laid out in the SDR.

 

[UnwiseCritic]

Yes it most definitely will, I have also heard that they are not renewing any soldiers contracts who are from commonwealth countries once their TOS are up as a way of meeting force reductions laid out in the SDR.

It is understandable

 

[dimsum]

Yep, I've heard rumblings about that.  There's always Australia for those so inclined.

 

[Flaker]

Australia only picks certain trades and ranks with certain age requirements on some of those.

It's the "What are you going to do for us mentality", that said. It's the right kind of mentality unfortunately shared by would be recruits.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I wonder if this will affect people with current previous military experience? My best guess is yes.

I was in the application process for the royal marines not too long ago. But it's not to be right now. But when I was in England at a recruiting center I asked if commonwealth citizens suffered any "discrimination" in the selection process. Officially it was a no, but he said they will take the Brit if they have equal potential. However they do like commonwealth members with previous service as they are less of a risk.

I was hoping to try again down the road, so hopefully this changes. Or foreign military service bears some weight on the choices.

Marche ou Creve mon vieux!


http://www.legion-recrute.com/en/

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Marche ou Creve mon vieux!


http://www.legion-recrute.com/en/

My thoughts exactly, if you want to experience another military take the the plunge and join the FFL, besides it is not nearly as horrible as it used to be, atleast according to my friends over at http://www.cervens.net

;D

 

[UnwiseCritic]

I have never seriously considered the legion as I think they are over hyped. I don't question their abilities, or methods. What they do seems to work for them and it's been working for a long time.

I have read two books,

        The first was about a Scott who loved his time with the legion but his life was in the sh*****r prior to joining. He had attempted suicide, was on the older side with no previous military experience.

        The being on an Australian who was educated and previous served in the ADF. He was quickly disillusioned, his expectations may have been a little high. The lack of individual responsibilities and poor quality of leadership and some of their out dated tactics would destroy many a thinking man's brain.

I found I really sided with the Australian, but all the  power to those who take the "plunge"

 

[TXGuard]

Howdy,

I'm a Texas National Guardsman, and was fortunate enough to marry a Canadian back in 2011.

She misses home quite a bit, and we've always half-joked about moving to Canada.

Basically what I'm looking for is a path to enlistment, so to speak. This is still purely hypothetical for me, because I'm still in the US military and have at least one year left.

I'm an SGT with one tour in Iraq, and a trip to Afghanistan as a dirty contractor (still here breathing in moondust, unfortunately). My job doesn't lend itself well to the private sector (outside of contracting, which is drying up by the day since we're running out of wars), so were I to move to Canada right now, I'd be asking you if you wanted fries with that. So military's my best option.

So far, my research indicates I'd have to be a Canadian citizen. Cool, not a problem. Was wondering, though, if there's any sort of program for individuals with prior military experience elsewhere.

I'm sure I'm not unique, and I've heard indications I'd lose rank, which isn't a problem for me. Stripes are nice, but it's tough to enforce standards when you're reflexively trying to enforce another country's standards.

Can you guys advise?

TIA

 

[Bassil_Inf]

Hey buddy you might want to give this a read. http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-support-services-for-members-reservists/index.page

 

[TXGuard]

I appreciate the link, but looking at it, it's geared primarily towards Canadian reservists. I'm a US reservist.

It appears one of the links is a program where I guess reservists from Canada could do their training requirements with a US unit, which is pretty cool, even though I've never seen it happen all the way down in Texas. I'm sure my wife would attribute that to the oppressive heat.

Neat program, but not quite a way into what I'm looking for.

Thanks, though.

 

[mariomike]

Basically what I'm looking for is a path to enlistment, so to speak. This is still purely hypothetical for me, because I'm still in the US military and have at least one year left.

This may help.

The "Wanting To Join Another Military" Thread- Them To Us- Us To Them 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/18494.0.html

 

[TXGuard]

Thanks. From that thread I picked up this post in particular:

"Generally speaking, you need to be a Canadian Citizen to be enrolled.  Exceptions do happen but normally only in cases where the individual applying possesses prior military service and specialized training from a Commonwealth or NATO military force which makes them a "skilled" applicant and I don't think that would apply in your case."

So I guess the question boils down to what "skilled" means. The US is decidedly not a member of the Commonwealth anymore, but we are a member of NATO, so there's that.

My training is fairly specialized (it involves cubicles, drinking entire pots of coffee at a time, and occasionally something cool happens), so there's that as well. Six years in, made it to Sergeant.

I don't really know. I'm guessing I'm going to have to call up a recruiter and harass him.

Thanks for the link. That helped point me in the right direction, I think.

 

[mariomike]

Thanks. From that thread I picked up this post in particular:

"Generally speaking, you need to be a Canadian Citizen to be enrolled.  Exceptions do happen but normally only in cases where the individual applying possesses prior military service and specialized training from a Commonwealth or NATO military force which makes them a "skilled" applicant and I don't think that would apply in your case."

So I guess the question boils down to what "skilled" means. The US is decidedly not a member of the Commonwealth anymore, but we are a member of NATO, so there's that.

My training is fairly specialized (it involves cubicles, drinking entire pots of coffee at a time, and occasionally something cool happens), so there's that as well. Six years in, made it to Sergeant.

I don't really know. I'm guessing I'm going to have to call up a recruiter and harass him.

Thanks for the link. That helped point me in the right direction, I think.

Non-Citizen Recruiting
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/105605/post-1167762.html#msg1167762

See Reply #5.

How can a landed immigrant (PR card holder) join the forces or related...... 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/108227/post-1187426.html#msg1187426

Reply #8.

As always, best to contact Recruiting.

 

[TXGuard]

Well, that makes it even clearer.

Is there a list of low-density MOCs someplace for me to consult, or is that information normally restricted to recruiters?

You're pretty good at finding this stuff. Sorry if I'm making you do all the leg-work here. I'm pretty terrible at forums.

 

[TXGuard]

I figure you're right though. Recruiting's going to have to run this one to ground for me in the end.

We'll see what happens.

Thanks for the help.