The "Wanting To Join Another Military" Thread- Them To Us- Us To Them

[geo]

Most reserve trades are not undermaned... esp Combat arm trades

 

[Osotogari]

Most reserve trades are not undermaned... esp Combat arm trades

In order to keep this civilized, I'll just say that this statement is misinformed. 

Once you step back from the spreadsheets the overall picture of combat arms is somewhat different.  There are significant numbers of people in the combat arms who just can't or won't be deployed because of medical issues and/or because they're working in a school or range control type of environment.  If they weren't short handed, battle groups going overseas wouldn't require augmentation.  The reserve force in Canada has really come through in this regard to the point that manning problems aren't so apparent to outside scrutiny, but sooner or later the temp agency kleenex box that the reserve force is turning into will run its course, just like many of those in the regular force.  As an NCO in an Alberta reserve unit, we've got as many or more people through our doors through reg to reserve component transfer than we have from the recruiting system, which shows the burnout on one side and the hurdles on the other   

The worst thing the system ever did was to close recruitment off to landed immigrants.  Such people were an excellent source of cutural information, perspective, and experience and given the shortfalls in diversity that is so evident by our recruiting literature, somewhat counterproductive as well. 

 

[Blackadder1916]

This is a dumb question, but are american decorations allowed/authorized to be worn on a Canadian Forces uniform?

The following is quoted from A-AD-200-000/AG-000 The Honours, Flags and Heritage Structure of the Canadian Forces

Chapter 2 (emphasis/comments added)

34. A member who was awarded an order, decoration or medal by a foreign power prior to enrolment may be granted approval to wear the insignia and ribbon while in uniform. To obtain approval the member shall submit a written request to the member's commanding officer (CO), accompanied by documentary proof of the award. The CO shall forward the request with the original or photocopy of the documentary proof, through normal channels, to NDHQ/DHH.

35. If a member is granted authority to wear a foreign award, a copy of the authority shall be filed on the Unit Personnel Record and the NDHQ personal document file.

That being said, other criteria may apply.  Generally approval would probably be given only for those decorations and medals that would normally be approved if they were awarded to a Canadian citizen by a foreign power.

FOREIGN HONOURS TO CANADIANS

21. Canadian policy requires Government approval before an order, decoration or medal can be awarded to one of its citizens. Otherwise, Canada will not recognize the honour, and it cannot be worn with national honours or on a CF uniform.

22. The policy has been described to all missions accredited to Canada (Foreign Affairs Circular Note No.XDC-0675, 4 February 1988), and is reprinted in Figure 2-1-1. (see attachment below)

23. Although the policy requires approval before an award, requests after the fact which explain the presentation circumstances may be considered.

24. Since the Sovereign is the fount of all Canadian honours, foreign honours must emanate from a similar level, a head of state or government, to be recognized. Awards originated by some other or lower authority are regarded as private honours. These can be accepted as private mementos only. Except for courtesy reasons at the moment of presentation, they cannot be worn with national honours or on a CF uniform.  (this may preclude US commendation and achievement medals as they are awarded in the name of the service secretary)

25. Canada will only approve honours which recognize meritorious activity. Canada does not engage in exchanges of honours, nor give or receive honours based solely on an individual's status.

26. Canadian protocol differentiates between orders and decorations (which recognize individual meritorious activity), and campaign and service medals (which recognize honourable participation in some group activity).

27. Canada does not approve foreign orders and decorations for the normal performance of paid government duty. Thus, requests to award foreign honours to public employees, military or civilian, must explain why the activity to be recognized was outside the paid duties or beyond the norm expected of the individual's rank and experience. Each such request is assessed individually.

28. For campaign and service medals, a request is assessed on a group basis for all who qualify for the honour. If the request is approved, the decision will guide future requests for the medal.

29. Nothing in this policy applies to foreign honours properly presented to a country's own citizens. However, after immigration, a Canadian citizen can only wear foreign honours in accordance with Canadian protocol, eg, the honours must emanate from a head of state or government.

A few decades ago I was acquainted with an individual who joined the CF after having previous service in the US military (including Vietnam service).  IIRC, of the several medals and devices he received for his US service he was permitted to wear only one (maybe two) with CF uniform.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

I've known at least 3 Padres who were allowed to wear US medals and several who were allowed to wear British or Commonwealth medals. Two of the Padres had significant decorations they had won in Vietnam and the Brit medals included the one given for Northern Ireland and the Silver and Golden Jubilee medals.....of course the UN ones are the same so they got to wear those e.g. Cyprus UNFICYP .

 

[Navy_Blue]

I'm over in the UK in HMS Sultan doing some coursing related to the Vic's.  Every night up in the mess the RN guys are at me about what its like in Canada and how much they would love to join our Navy.   They are all as equally trained if not more trained than our MAR ENG.  As "Tiffers"  They get a degree.  They get accelerated to Chief here too.  But almost everyone I have spoke to here is chomping at the bit to get out of this country. 

If they were able to jump the hoops and get into our country would our Armed Forces give them credit for there training and experience.  I'm not talking Ordinary Seaman here these guys are PO's and Chiefs with allot of time in Boats and Ships.   

Just wondering if any of you have any experience dealing with this sort of thing??

 

[Navy_Blue]

That is what I told them too.  "The Aussies would love to have you".  They seem pretty keen on us tho.  Seems a shame to pass up some very qualified people but I have a feeling our Immigration system would be the first hurdle.  Its to bad we couldn't allow citizens of the UK Canadian citizenship after a years service. 

Thanks for the reply guys.

 

[geo]

Blue,
Not saying it's impossible.  It'll be a question of if there is a pressing need in the trades.  Only inquiring thru Canada House (The Embassy) and possibly thru CFRC or the Sea branch....

Ask and ye shall find... don't ask and ye get - NOTHING

Good luck to you & them!

CHIMO!

 

[CFR FCS]

Blue,
There actually is a provision in the regulations for recruiting non Canadians if they have a speciality that is in critical supply. I will Pm you with a contact in NDHQ. 

 

[daftandbarmy]

Getting equivalencies recognized can be a long and torturous process. It only took me something like 15 years to have one of my UK staff courses recognized here. I personally know two army (commando forces) officers who transferred to the CF and then had to drop a rank, and then stay there for twice as long as they would have in the UK due to no Major's positions being availble in the CF.

There be dragons.

 

[1feral1]

... they might think of going to Australia.... Oz is a bit more agressive about getting their hands on trained personnel

Very much mate. Citizenship granted in 90 days upon arrival. Thats a carrot dangler for sure. Dual nationality guaranteed.

We have had at least 5 foreigners in my Regt in two years, including one Cdn, the rest poms. From CPL to CAPT to MAJ.

If you're serious and looking for a new life (that it is) www.defencejobs.gov.au


Wes

 

[adubois]

I accidentally posted this question in the wrong forum I think.

How often are citizenship waivers granted to permanent residents and in what jobs are they most commonly approved in? The online application for the Canadian Army stated that it was possible to obtain a citizenship waiver in certain circumstances.

 

[aussiechangover]

from my own personnal experience I tried a citizenship waver and was not successful even though I came from a commonwealth country with previous military experience. Keeping this in mind that I also was due to take the citizenship exam after harassing the recruiting center for close to 3 years for them to take me early and driving to Ottawa on many occasions to get a 2nd opinion.

 

[Jack Nastyface]

I accidentally posted this question in the wrong forum I think.

How often are citizenship waivers granted to permanent residents and in what jobs are they most commonly approved in? The online application for the Canadian Army stated that it was possible to obtain a citizenship waiver in certain circumstances.

If you have a medical degree that is recognized in Canada, then you might stand a chance. If the CF has a trade or an occupation that is in distress (i.e. grossly undermanned) and you have the right quals, then you may get the magic citizenship waiver. I have never seen this happen, though. 

 

[tankie]

I left Niagara Falls in the summer of '88 to join the British Army, whislt my school buddy joined 1CER (Clunk) and that was the hardest thing i ever had to do.  I think about leaving this and re-joining a Tank unit back home.

The question of infrastructure is irrelevant.  One of my jobs was Training Sgt at ATR Winchester, all walks of life come through, and regardless of colour of skin, religion or geographic locations...my work suit is the same colour as the recurits...DPM. 

I beleive that the system is flexible enough to accomodate all language/learning barriers.  I would (and have) called on a sniper team and heard a South African accent, and knew what target i sent was getting tagged.  Equally, if a fight broke out in a pub and a Fijiian that i trained was there i could put my back to him and trust him.

 

[geo]

Hey Tankie,
Not sure about what you are getting at but, there are plenty of Cdn expats who have served in the UK and US military - that have chosen to return and serve in the Canadian military.
Is enrolling in the CF from a foreign (but friendly) military will not be 100% easy but, from those who chat on this site, it's not too complicated and entirely satisfying.

CHIMO!

 

[aussiechangover]

Hey Tankie,
Not sure about what you are getting at but, there are plenty of Cdn expats who have served in the UK and US military - that have chosen to return and serve in the Canadian military.
Is enrolling in the CF from a foreign (but friendly) military will not be 100% easy but, from those who chat on this site, it's not too complicated and entirely satisfying.

CHIMO!

it's surprisingly more difficult than what I imagined thats for sure my biggest problem from changing over from the Australian Navywas I had though commonwealth country, ha this will be easy wasn't I in for a surprise. all i can say is stick it out it's worth it in the end

 

[rangerblood]

I want to join your army, can you do that with a dual citizenship. I am from the us. As we can all see. :threat:

 

[oligarch]

I have dual citizenship and I'm here. So unless either I or someone in recruitment messed up, you should be fine. You'll likely have to do a security check if you've lived outside the country for a while, but I'm not sure about that in your case because you are from the states. To the best of my knowledge, the requirement is that you are a Canadian citizen, not that you are ONLY a Canadian citizen.

I don't think anyone will make an issue out of this if you don't.

Good luck!

 

[kincanucks]

I want to join your army, can you do that with a dual citizenship. I am from the us. As we can all see. :threat:

No I can see that you are from us not the USA and for future reference it is Canada not canada.

HH and DA

 

[Redeye]

Dual citizenship is no problem.  I'm a citizen of three countries and it was no issue when I joined.  It is a question on security clearance documents, just requires an explanation but it is by no means a showstopper.