The US Presidency 2019

[JesseWZ]

Schroedingers Mueller Report.

 

[quadrapiper]

The fact remains that one side is correct.  Trump is innocent.

There are undoubtedly crimes the fellow hasn't committed, or commissioned; however, innocent, as a general descriptor, is not even remotely applicable.

As for the election campaign, it seems reasonable to flag it as being something of a grab-bag of white collar crimes, questionable contacts and influences, and general sleaze. Nothing about any of the adult Trumps suggests that, offered advantage by a foreign power, they wouldn't seize that advantage.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

There are undoubtedly crimes the fellow hasn't committed, or commissioned; however, innocent, as a general descriptor, is not even remotely applicable.

As for the election campaign, it seems reasonable to flag it as being something of a grab-bag of white collar crimes, questionable contacts and influences, and general sleaze. Nothing about any of the adult Trumps suggests that, offered advantage by a foreign power, they wouldn't seize that advantage.

Pure speculation and biased at that.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

There are undoubtedly crimes the fellow hasn't committed, or commissioned; however, innocent, as a general descriptor, is not even remotely applicable.

As for the election campaign, it seems reasonable to flag it as being something of a grab-bag of white collar crimes, questionable contacts and influences, and general sleaze. Nothing about any of the adult Trumps suggests that, offered advantage by a foreign power, they wouldn't seize that advantage.

Sorry about my now deleted drive-by post.....wasn't worthy of what I expect from myself.
Bruce

 

[Brad Sallows]

>As for the election campaign, it seems reasonable to flag it as being something of a grab-bag of white collar crimes, questionable contacts and influences, and general sleaze. Nothing about any of the adult Trumps suggests that, offered advantage by a foreign power, they wouldn't seize that advantage.

Whose name do you think you could substitute for "adult Trumps" and not have that statement be true?  It's evergreen.

I agree with the commentators who assert the counterintelligence investigation had to happen if there was a suspicion that Americans were conspiring with foreigners (Russians) to meddle in an election.  Near the top of the list of "institutions of democracy" that must be protected [is] a free and fair election.

For the same reason, I agree an internal administration investigation must also happen to reassure Americans that no-one abused pretexts for and methods of the CI investigation to put their thumb on the scale.

 

[quadrapiper]

>As for the election campaign, it seems reasonable to flag it as being something of a grab-bag of white collar crimes, questionable contacts and influences, and general sleaze. Nothing about any of the adult Trumps suggests that, offered advantage by a foreign power, they wouldn't seize that advantage.

I'm reasonably certain that all of our federal politicians, even the ones whose policies I despise, would steer clear of the sort of gratuitous, hazardous to the nation associations the Trump campaign (and, given e.g. Butina, other elements of the US Right establishment) had swirling around it. There's always foreign contact, especially dealing with anyone from a high-level business, diplomatic, or political background or family (e.g. Martin, Trudeau), but that's background noise compared to Ivan strolling into Trump Tower.

 

[Brad Sallows]

A meeting in which the campaign participants expected to receive dirt on the opposition campaign, and then blew it off because it didn't meet expectations?  I fully realize it is repeatedly presented by critics as something grave and troubling; but that's a problem for the people who find it so to deal with.  I find it pretty trivial compared to all the other mud-slinging and dirt-digging that goes on during election campaigns.  Too much stuff is misrepresented as something graver than it is, or misrepresented entirely.  From today's reading I see that there are still some writers (well-respected in the world of journalism) who can't resist writing a sentence to invite a reader to conclude that the problem with Flynn is that he met with a Russian, rather than that he lied about it later.  As long as the Blue Team can't climb down from their outrage enough to start talking truthfully, I expect the Red Team to go right on making equally outrageous (eg. "exoneration") claims.

Two simple exercises:
1) On a scale of 1 (least) to 10 (worst), where does the Trump Tower meeting rank?
2) On the same scale, where does the Steele investigation rank (as a dirt-digging effort; disregard its use by the FBI)?

Shifting the context from the US to Canada doesn't make much sense - Canada's relative importance and influence is much lesser.  If Canada had the clout in the world the US does, I suppose we'd observe similar levels of sleaze.

 

[mariomike]

As for the election campaign, it seems reasonable to flag it as being something of a grab-bag of white collar crimes, questionable contacts and influences, and general sleaze. Nothing about any of the adult Trumps suggests that, offered advantage by a foreign power, they wouldn't seize that advantage.

Ivanka or Don Jr. In 2024?

 

[quadrapiper]

Ivanka or Don Jr. In 2024?

DJT, first of his name, etc...

Wouldn't be at all surprised if that's the ambition.

 

[Jarnhamar]

"I had nothing to do with Russia helping me to get elected."
https://www.google.com/search?q=I+had+nothing+to+do+with+Russia+helping+me+to+get+elected&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A5%2F30%2F2019%2Ccd_max%3A5%2F31%2F2019&tbm=

Seen that and a bunch of people flipping out over how this is an admission of guilt and he needs to be impeached bla bla bla.

Same people whom when Trump makes a statement they don't like or agree with, brush it off as nonsense and the ramblings of a mad man not to be believed.

It seems when to believe Trump is directly related to how bad it makes him look.

 

[mariomike]

Seen that and a bunch of people flipping out over how this is an admission of guilt

I read it as a denial ,

"I had nothing to do with Russia helping me to get elected."

and he needs to be impeached bla bla bla.

May 28, 2019 

Senate Republicans Say They Would Kill Trump Impeachment Charges Instantly
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/trump-impeachment-senate-gop-would-kill-charges-instantly.html

 

[Brad Sallows]

The "admission" some people are excited about is the implied admission that Russia did help him get elected (ie. another nail for those that like to pound the "illegitimately elected" table).

But Trump is the speaker, so we're left to guess whether his intent was to express the idea that Russia did help get him elected, or that Russia did try to help get him elected.  (Depending on viewpoint, the political distinction between Russian interference being a meaningful/successful intervention and a mere attempt can be huge.)

 

[The Bread Guy]

It seems when to believe Trump any politician is directly related to how bad it makes him/her look.

True, but not JUST for #POTUS45  ;D

 

[Jarnhamar]

I read it as a denial ,

"I had nothing to do with Russia helping me to get elected."

I wanna say the antifa psychopaths helped more than the Russians.

Thought I read somewhere that a whopping $3000 in campaign donations were attributed to Russia.

 

[mariomike]

I wanna say the antifa psychopaths helped more than the Russians.

I just know what I read in the papers,

The Atlantic
The special counsel pointed back to the words of his report. Here are its key findings.
May 29, 2019

“The Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion,” Mueller wrote. This help “favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.”

The Trump campaign “expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts,” and it “welcomed” this help.

There is insufficient evidence to accuse the Trump campaign of criminal conspiracy with its Russian benefactors. However, “the social media campaign and the GRU hacking operations coincided with a series of contacts between Trump Campaign officials and individuals with ties to the Russian government.”

These contacts were covered up by a series of lies, both to the special counsel and to Congress. Lying by the Trump campaign successfully obscured much of what happened in 2016. The special counsel in some cases “was not able to corroborate witness statements through comparison to contemporaneous communications or fully question witnesses about statements that appeared inconsistent with other known facts.” In particular, the investigation never did determine what happened to proprietary Trump-campaign polling data shared with the Russians.

Within hours of the appointment of a special counsel to investigate 2016 events, Trump began defaming him. Trump had already fired the FBI director who investigated these events. His first order to fire the special counsel appointed in the director’s place was issued on June 17, 2017, a month after Mueller’s appointment. That order would be followed by many more. Trump directed his staff to lie about these orders.

Over and above his efforts to fire the special counsel, “the President engaged in a second phase of conduct, involving public attacks on the investigation, non-public efforts to control it, and efforts in both public and private to encourage witnesses not to cooperate with the investigation.”

The subversion of the investigation was brazen. “Many of the President’s acts directed at witnesses, including discouragement of cooperation with the government and suggestions of possible future pardons, occurred in public view.”

Full article here,
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/05/mueller/590467/

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Gee, imagine the gall to call a witch hunt a witch hunt. 

 

[mariomike]

Gee, imagine the gall to call a witch hunt a witch hunt.

"Fake news!"   

 

[Jarnhamar]

You know what's probably worse than a foreign government trying to interphere with your countries elections? *

When agencies from your own government like the FBI do.



*for all I know the Russians did try and interphere. Considering how many countries the USA has interphered with I rally can't find myself getting too upset about someone doing it to them.

 

[mariomike]

*for all I know the Russians did try and interphere.

He denied it,

I have great confidence in my intelligence people, but I will tell you that President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today.

https://www.google.com/search?ei=sbT1XOfuEJDL_QbQw77wBw&q=%22great+confidence+in+my+intelligence+people%2C+but+I+will+tell+you+that+President+Putin+was+extremely+strong+and+powerful+in+his+denial%22&oq=%22great+confidence+in+my+intelligence+people%2C+but+I+will+tell+you+that+President+Putin+was+extremely+strong+and+powerful+in+his+denial%22&gs_l=psy-ab.3...13321.21167..21612...0.0..0.0.0.......2....1..gws-wiz.VA5hxpQOfbU

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Every country interferes in other countries business if it suits their fancy.....always has been, always will be.