"The stuff the army issues is useless" and "no non-issue kit over seas!"

[buzgo]

You have to wonder how many black eyes the supply chain can take before someone actually fixes the damm thing. 

I always thought they were responsible for handing out the kit but I guess in the field is no different then in garrison.  They sort through the mess and take the best dishing out the rest.

I can't believe the sleeping conditions quote though that pissed me off.

Its not the supply chain, its the project offices and the procurement people. The QM guys give out what they've been given... if the kit doesn't exist in the system - then it isn't issued.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Well MD how many times have CF18's fired in anger or the C7/9 and C6 for that matter?

 

[DG-41]

I like the issue boots. Once you get them broken in, they're like moccasins. It helps to put gel insoles in them too.

And after a weekend splashing around in a swamp, I'm a big fan of the new cold/wet weather boots too. Three days up to my ankles in water and mud, and my feet were dry and warm the whole time.

Ditto the Combat Sock System. I haven't had any problems with blistering or raw spots with these socks.

The CADPAD combats I really like. CADPAD works really well as a camo pattern, they don't stain or wrinkle at all, they dry out super quick, and they seem more durable than the old green pyjamas. The cut isn't all that flattering on... well.. anybody, but it's not like we go to war to be fashionable. My only real beef is that rank and names are illegible at any distance save "right up close"

The Tac Vest and the Small Pack are good ideas, indifferently executed. I prefer the Tac Vest to the 82 pattern webbing myself, because it is easier to live with in a vehicle and I (as yet) have no need for the extra mag capacity. As the aftermarket has shown, it doesn't take much to "fix" it.

The Small Pack... I'm still mixed on.

And the new issue underwear is awesome - the old tissue paper boxers didn't even make good rags.

Overall, I think the quality of issue kit is way up over what it once was, and if somebody were to implement a feedback loop between soldiers in the field and CTS, it could get better yet.

DG

 

[KevinB]

Michael - your missing the point.

There are not enough issued CCO EOTECH's available -- then due to the wonderful MP trade wanting to investigate every shooting - troops are concerned with buying an EOTECH out of their own pocket (its just a 1x sight - while the C79 is a 3.4x) - if they misidentify a tgt with a personal scope - just imagine the feeding frenzy the red hats would have, secondly they are being employed in both moutainous areas where logner shots are needed (so the magnified scope is nice -- and in populated settings where the 1x is nice.  And of course a lot of troops hate the POS C79...

And I think you'd be surprised with how many rounds fired in anger have happened, irregardless your logic is poor - since with that logic then why have an Army - we usually dont need it.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Well MD how many times have CF18's fired in anger or the C7/9 and C6 for that matter?

I don't think that's valid. 

To answer the question, the CF18s were used in Kosovo and the Gulf IIRC, and the other small arms were used at Medak Pocket for just one...

I'm not arguing against having effective equipment, I just mean is there not a diminishing return on your investment once you've reached a certain point - ie is a 2200 dollar scope really so much better than a 500 dollar scope (for example) that you can justify spending that much more?  I mean across the board for all riflemen deployed?  These are the kinds of questions that are getting asked, rather cold-bloodedly. It will always be a trade off between what the man on the ground thinks he needs, as an individual, and what the system is willing to pay for it.

That's in response to Kevin as well - long distance shots?  The trained specialists we deployed a couple years ago made the paper with their long distance shooting.  I can see a need for expensive specialist equipment, in the hands of those specialists (we've made reference to JTF-2 once already in this thread, I'd include them here as well).

I understand also the problems with the Elcans and why many guys prefer even iron sights (again, out of pocket).  Should it be fixed?  Yes, and with input from those on the ground.  But there will be threshhold at which it just won't be possibly to acquire kit - it not being a perfect world - and hard choices will be made. 

I understand PM Chretien really enjoyed that new lear jet, incidentally.

Anyway, I don't mean to suggest we don't need an army nor do we not need new kit on an ongoing basis - just making the point that there is a fine line between perceived extravagance and operational necessity.  Some things that may seem common sense to the soldier on the ground are obviously not seen that way universally. I don't see a way around that, frankly.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I think part of the problem is that those on the pointy end need and should have different equipment then those in the rear or rarely deploy etc. 

 

[Michael Dorosh]

I think part of the problem is that those on the pointy end need and should have different equipment then those in the rear or rarely deploy etc. 

I agree. It used to be signallers, drivers, etc. got the C1 SMG while those in rifle sections carried FNC1 and C2.  To go back farther, in 1940, riflemen in infantry battalions wore different web gear than the rest of the Army as it was recognized they had more "stuff" to carry.

Talk on this board about modular TVs would support this idea; it is indeed a shame we didn't go that route.  I will agree with you that it was a mistake.

 

[DG-41]

That's a big part of it; the feedback loop between design/procurement and the guys on the ground is less effective than it could be.

That's not new; it dates back bast Sam Hughes and the Ross Rifle all the way back to the Romans and beyond.

What IS new is that troops can get their hands on alternate equipment with very little effort. I can buy a EOTech sight off the web for $360 US and have it here by the end of the week. If I decide the issue tac vest is NFG and I want one with configurable mag pouches, I can order one off the web for about a grand and have it here in a week. Etc etc.

At least this is a better state of affairs that having to source my Lee-Enfield off a dead Tommy. 

DG

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I can imagine those in CTS are SCREAMING for blood right now because they know we can acquire kit faster and possibly cheaper then they and it may force them out of their fiefdom.  I mean come on how long does it take to get a ruck sack out to the guys and girls that need it.

 

[COBRA-6]

I mean come on how long does it take to get a ruck sack out to the guys and girls that need it.

How long does it take to call Kifaru??

 

[KevinB]

It took me 2 weeks to get it after I ordered it  ;D

I am pretty sure they beat CTS by about 12 years

 

[COBRA-6]

It took me 2 weeks to get it after I ordered it  ;D

I am pretty sure they beat CTS by about 12 years

But does it have daisy chains? That's the way of the future ya know...  ;D

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

at least.

 

[Franko]

Nothing really to add on this but I totally agree with troops buying their own kit.

Now onto the Canadian RSOIs....or *** tents...

The reason why they are still waiting for new accomodations is KBR is the contractor...and they work slower than honey going up hill during winter.

There is limited space on camp and when it is cleared....it literally takes months to do, because it's being cleared of mines and UXOs.

Where the Canadian BG is right now was nothing back in September, it had to be cleared and built up with over a meter of gravel...all done by KBR and LEEs

As for the CSS guys getting weatherhavens....first come first serve. They arrived in theater first and got the better digs...if you call leaking tents and rats a better dig. I've seen guys bailing out their weatherhavens from a nice depth of over 2 inches after a good rain.

So they are pretty much in the same boat, just a more private one.

As for the guys complaining about their beds.... :

At least they have beds...most people on this site have gone entire tours on cots, and they were'nt in the best of conditions either.

Suck it up butter cup....the pointy end guys always get the short end of the stick, it's our lot in life.

Regards

 

[spartan031]

Could you imagine having to use the webbing that they give you at BMQ.

Half of it fell off with one pass of the obstacle course.

 

[chrisf]

That's why most webbing was held together permanently with zap-straps and duct-tape...

I fixed some for a buddy of mine while we were in the field once and some of the plastic clips broke... it was never exchanged, right to the day he got the tac-vest, as the repair held better then the original.

 

[globeguy]

Is the footwear being used by soldiers in Khandahar up to snuff?

I am a Globe and Mail reporter seeking to answer this questions, as newspaper articles have surfaced in which solidiers are buying their
own boots, as they feel the military issues ones are not comfortable/useful.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I'm all ears. Please email me at cfreeze@globeandmail.ca or call 416-585-5385.

Regards,

Colin

 

[theoldyoungguy]

the system is f'd up and always will be.

 

[HDE]

Check out a book, Blood on the Hills, by David Bercuson, for more on Canadians using American weapons in Korea.  Lots of good photos/info on the issue, including officers using Yankee stuff.

ciao

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Globeguy,
Welcome to army.ca.
Thank you for being up front with the members about who you are, we appreciate the candor.