"The stuff the army issues is useless" and "no non-issue kit over seas!"

[Dog Walker]

I will try to be careful here.

1) The Cpl in question is not reg. Army, and did not send much time outside the wire. I’ve heard stories.

2) The K-becers were discouraged from wearing their store bought kit.

3) I saw my kid’s mom on the TV news last week waving at P.E.T.

Maybe I’ve said too much? Remove if this is the case.

 

[geo]

From what i've seen of the new equipment issued to soldiers in aghanistan, we older guys would have given our left arm and right leg to have. When I joined the most upto date new equipment we had was the civilian underware we purchased the week before going into basic training.

+1  I resemble that!

To be fair, there is better gear out there.  There always is a better mousetrap coming up on the other side of the hill... really!
Footwear being one of the most important pieces of kit to an Infanteer / Sapper / working stiff... they HAVE to be good & we should get the best that money can buy - without having to cough up our own cash. .. IMHO... really!

 

[ModlrMike]

Sounds like sour grapes to me. Our kit must, by virtue of our size and varied missions be more generic than specific.

Pistols - I'll give him that one. The Browning should be replaced by another 9mm, and with sufficient numbers.

Vest - better than the 84 pattern webbing, better than the LBV. Probably the silver standard rather than the gold standard. There comes a point of diminishing returns when one attempts to carry too much. Ten mags is probably a good medium. If you need more than 300 rounds on your person, then your CQ or Pl WO should be sending ammo forward in bulk (as I know from experience happens).

Boots - I've not had any problem with mine. The newest style comes in 72 different sizes, but there is always the chance the won't fit all troops. As to terrain... last tour some guys wore theirs out, others didn't. Again, and individual outcome rather than a group one. Lots of guys bought high speed boots that wore out in the first month. Others had their issue boots last all tour. The reverse was true as well.

 

[MG34]

Our kit for the most part is GTG, the Tac Vest is not even in the running for Bronze the non-modualr design is outdated as the vest was designed for Bosnia, not combat operations..The issued desert boots are junk, and yes every level of command and support weapon gunner leaving the wire should have a side arm, so no  not sour grapes,and certainly not out of left field.

 

[G-spot]

my favorite part of the article, are the comments back


"We have to field 2,500 soldiers, so the equipment, by default, is generic a bit. It's not entirely specific to one soldier. Is it perfect? No. Does it satisfy the vast majority of soldiers? Yes," said Col. Jean-Marc Lanthier, the military's director of land requirements.
Just let the people going outside the wire buy their own rigs, and tell your buddies to stop making a big stink about someone not wearing something not issued kit?


Taylor said he doesn't know where the criticism is coming from, noting that "it's completely from left field."

Hey Scott, when was the last time you wore the TV or the desert boots in Afghanistan?

BTW the newer ones are an improvement, but are pretty hot, I perfered my Danners

 

[Dirty Patricia]

We are the best equipped infantry battle group in the theater, but there are problems with some equipment which everybody on the ground knows about.  The Cpl is correct.  The Tack Vest is garbage.  It is not modular and it can not not carry enough ammo for a rifleman let alone LMG ammo or M 203 grenades.  The boots are uncomfortable and quickly fall apart.  As for a sidearm, even when you do get a BHP, good luck getting it to work.

As for the other Cpl (Taylor), he demonstrated how out of touch he is by his statement on magazines.  Ten to fifteen are are the norm now and even those go pretty quickly in a real gunfight.

 

[Gunner98]

I think MGen Lew is showing his lack of recent experience!  Anyone else think so?

Mike Duffy Live: Major-General Lewis Mackenzie
CTV NN 13 Feb 2008 17h15

Mike: A soldier who has just returned from Kandahar has offered some stinging criticism of the gear being offered in Afghanistan. Corporal Beaulieu says he doesn't like the boots. He says they're not up to the job. The vests that they're carrying don't have enough pouches for ammunition. And he believes each person there should have not one, but two side arms. Take us through all this we're joined by our military expert Major-General Lewis Mackenzie. General every time I visited our troops overseas, it was always one barracks lawyer who was busily telling the reporter what was wrong with the mission. Is this any different?

Major-General Lewis Mackenzie: No, I don't think so, Mike. I would be very surprised if soldiers didn't speak up and grump and complain. That's not an indication of bad morale. That's an indication of someone that's peed off. I think the lack of caring capability in fact misrepresented what he said. Maybe it was lost in translation. He talked about only four magazines, not four rounds being carried which is the norm. Each magazine carries 30 rounds for most of the weapons and as a result, that's 120 rounds. If he was to carry the 10 to 15 that he wants, I’m afraid he would be a bit of a pack horse and in 45 Celsius temperatures it's not the thing I don't you do normally and if you want to carry extra ones, you get a kit that can carry it.

Mike: That is balance question between how many bullets can you comfortably carry and use and how many just become a detriment.

Major-General Lewis Mackenzie: And you can be resupplied. In addition to that, as far as the other issue which were the boots, I looked in my closet today. I’ve got six pairs left over from a military career and I only started keeping them in the last 15 years. They're always improving, always developing. I’ve worn the boots he's talking about. I have been running up and down in the mountains carrying 70 pounds but they seem to be popular with most of the troops. And as far as carrying two pistols, I don't know where that one comes from. Most of them don't have one. If you're fighting in built up areas and you're, you know, in around the mud shacks and things like that, then you one for quick reaction but you also have your rifle but I’m not sure where the two pistols come from. They don't break down. They're easy to service. You keep them clean. So I’m not sure about that one. That's confusing.

Mike: It was confusing to me too and I wondered if some of it again might have been based on one journalist not really understanding the military very much and the translation from one language to another.

Major-General Lewis Mackenzie: Righto, Mike. I just make one point. Unlike in my day, there's an outfit the soldiers sell in national defence headquarters that takes feedback from people just like the Corporal and a lot of other ranks and soldiers within the forces. That's the good news. And they do respond to that by way of improving the load carrying equipment, the flak jackets, etc. So that's the positive aspect.

Mike: Finally, on the general question, you've seen what the Liberals have had to say. What's your assessment of what the government or how the Prime Minister should respond?

Major-General Lewis Mackenzie: Well, they're gonna reach a compromise but it's going to be a really bad compromise and it won't work. So I guess that's my solution. Let me try and explain. This whole bit about this idiotic argument about combat or non-combat. The fact is, southern Afghanistan is dangerous and there's one guy in charge of the three provinces, regions south and it's currently a Canadian, Marc Lessard and his job is to push back the insurgency, establish security so the locals internally displaced people, refugees, etc. can come back. He does that by using the resources of the 12 nations under his command, including Canadians. And when he turns to the Canadians' next end of February in theory and says, okay, tomorrow we're going out on a six-day operation. We're going to push the enemy back, the Canadian battle group commander has to say, to, we've got a caveat because that's what it is, no matter what anybody says. We've got a caveat and we can't participate in that operation. That is just unworkable. The only solution is, get them out of Kandahar. Get the Canadians out of Kandahar and the taxpayer better not agree to pay the tens of millions of dollars in debt that will expense that will take us to do that, go into a new area where we don't know the people, we don't have the contacts, we don't have the intelligence gathers. Let's get off this, is it combat or non-combat BS because that's what it is. We're in Kandahar and while we're there, we're fighting.

Mike: Major-General Lewis Mackenzie. Good to see you tonight

Major-General Lewis Mackenzie: Thanks, Mike. 

 

[GAP]

Compared to what I have been reading on this site, yeah, he does seem dated, but that's expected....

He's dead on on most of his comments, this one is such a non issue, I don't think it makes a hill of beans..

edited to add: As for Scot Taylor's comments.....right outtr' thar....a soldier wouldn't want to carry 15-20 mags....who's he kidding, you carry what you think you need, and then add the reserve, something about "my kingdom for but for a horse....kinda thingy..."

 

[RCR Grunt]

To all the people who have said "Well, its better than the (insert pattern year here) (insert item of kit here) so I don't see why he's complaining."... STOP, STOP, STOP!  The wet weather boot for example is light years ahead of ankle boots and puttees, but they are still a poor design.  In addition, you are really dating yourself and giving people the impression that you are old and cranky.  In relative terms, our kit has improved, I will give you that.  But, the system in place that designs the kit is slow, cumbersome, and overburdened with a huge bureaucracy.  For the fighting soldier to be properly equipped, he needs access to specialized equipment specific to his employment.  Every conflict and every mission is different, and if it takes years to field proper equipment our fighting men and women will suffer in the mean time.  The system needs to be grossly streamlined, have the red tape removed, and steer away from "revolutionary redesigned human-factor intensive rocket science equipment" to off-the-shelf, purpose built equipment that is readily available here and now.  The TV is junk for fighting soldiers, the issued boots are terrible for everyone, and there are not enough pistols and not enough pistol training to satisfy the requirement overseas.  These are facts, and cannot be disputed, no matter how much better things are now compared to back in the day.  If we're going to send soldiers to fight, we need to give them the tools to fight with.  Its time to pull our heads out of the sand and realize that "uniformity" is something that does not belong on the modern battlefield.

 

[2 Cdo]

As for the other Cpl (Taylor), he demonstrated how out of touch he is by his statement on magazines.  Ten to fifteen are are the norm now and even those go pretty quickly in a real gunfight.

C'mon now, travelling around Germany in the back of a track with 5 mags is more than enough ammo for any soldier.

I'd say 10-15 mags per man are the STARTING point in reference to personal ammo allotments. I come from the school, the more the merrier. ;D

To all the people who have said "Well, its better than the (insert pattern year here) (insert item of kit here) so I don't see why he's complaining."... STOP, STOP, STOP!  The wet weather boot for example is light years ahead of ankle boots and puttees, but they are still a poor design.  In addition, you are really dating yourself and giving people the impression that you are old and cranky.  In relative terms, our kit has improved, I will give you that.  But, the system in place that designs the kit is slow, cumbersome, and overburdened with a huge bureaucracy.  For the fighting soldier to be properly equipped, he needs access to specialized equipment specific to his employment.  Every conflict and every mission is different, and if it takes years to field proper equipment our fighting men and women will suffer in the mean time.  The system needs to be grossly streamlined, have the red tape removed, and steer away from "revolutionary redesigned human-factor intensive rocket science equipment" to off-the-shelf, purpose built equipment that is readily available here and now.  The TV is junk for fighting soldiers, the issued boots are terrible for everyone, and there are not enough pistols and not enough pistol training to satisfy the requirement overseas.  These are facts, and cannot be disputed, no matter how much better things are now compared to back in the day.  If we're going to send soldiers to fight, we need to give them the tools to fight with.  Its time to pull our heads out of the sand and realize that "uniformity" is something that does not belong on the modern battlefield.

Well said!(For a dirty Royal )

 

[OldSolduer]

OK so if Taylor can be come an analyst, maybe I should advertise myself as one too.....as for his comments, this is not out of left field.
We've ALWAYS complained about our kit, but it is much better than even 10 years ago.
Does that mean we stay static? NO, we should always look for ways to improve.
The current tac vest, according to some is unworkable. Some say its fine. How do we solve the problem?
It's apparent the current issue vest is not suitable beyond the wire for extended periods. I know that you can run through 5 mags in no time, so 10 loaded would be better. A modular system where the individual can basically design his/her own.....am I on the right track?

 

[RCR Grunt]

OK so if Taylor can be come an analyst, maybe I should advertise myself as one too.....as for his comments, this is not out of left field.
We've ALWAYS complained about our kit, but it is much better than even 10 years ago.
Does that mean we stay static? NO, we should always look for ways to improve.
The current tac vest, according to some is unworkable. Some say its fine. How do we solve the problem?
It's apparent the current issue vest is not suitable beyond the wire for extended periods. I know that you can run through 5 mags in no time, so 10 loaded would be better. A modular system where the individual can basically design his/her own.....am I on the right track?

Your on the EXACT right track, a system whereby a variety of rigs is available and the individual gets to choose between them would be even better.

 

[OldSolduer]

Thank you RCR Grunt!!
I've always been known as a "free thinker"....much to consternation of some of my past superiors who expected me to follow themn with out question.
I'm a big beleiver in allowing the individual soldier to tailor his web gear, Tac vest or whatever to his needs, not the needs of the parade square. Of course, this has to be done within reason, and at minimal cost to our soldiers.
I know that WHEN this old dog deploys to Afghanistan (not if) there will be some kit I'll pay for in my ruck....or whatever we carry these days.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

I love General Mackenzie but seriously.. does he really think the guy was talking about two pistols and not two pistol MAGS?? The media of course, messed that up for sure...as discussed in the other thread...

 

[Dirty Patricia]

A modular system where the individual can basically design his/her own.....am I on the right track?

Yes, but unforunately nobody appears to be listening and that is what is so frustrating for the soldiers.  My platoon submitted dozens of UCRs after the BTE, during the deployment and post deployment.  I personally spoke to this issue, to the highest levels of the Army, during the Army Lessons Learned Conference in Kingston.  When representatives from DLR showed up at the Bn with a solution to the Tac Vest for TF 108, it was a huge, non-modular vest from Artkis and a modified Tac Vest (it had an 8 mag capacity, but some serious flaws).  At that point they had not heard anything through their chain about requests for modular equipment.  A MOLLE style modular vest that can be tailored for any tasks (Rfmn, Gren, LMG) or missions and operator comfort is the solution.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

I said it in the other post but I am flabbergasted that Lew didn't consider the fact that they messed up in translation on the pistols/mags deal.. there is no sane soldier that would ask for two pistols.. he is totally referring to mags...

 

[KevinB]

I said it in the other post but I am flabbergasted that Lew didn't consider the fact that they messed up in translation on the pistols/mags deal.. there is no sane soldier that would ask for two pistols.. he is totally referring to mags...

In some situations -- where the pistol would be used as a primary -- I have seen some unit members carry two pistols...

But for a conventional soldier -- no

 

[OldSolduer]

I'd like two pistols...... ;Djust kidding.

 

[KevinB]

I'd like two pistols...... ;Djust kidding.

Your wish....

 

[Sig_Des]

Your wish....

Damn it I-6, I hate it when you do that! Now my colleagues think, with me drooling, that I'm looking at porn!