The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[MTShaw]

Quietly is the important part......that is one of the biggest clue we are going to have an election in 2023. When does the government not make a big deal out of spending money? But this file is Kryptonite. You would think they would make a big deal about Canada's commitment to NATO etc. Nope.....Between, "No f-35", Boeing/Bomber, 2 eyes and most bidders pulling out. They have made a hash of the whole file.

Oh and the ordering in batches......what's the over/under on getting the whole 88?

And yes I get that the production of the F-35 is in lots so batches may make sense.

Every expensive Program is dynamite. Why would there be an election in 2023?

 

[OldSolduer]

A series of governments has let Cold Lake down. The people there are wonderful. The infrastructure, quarters etc are horrible. The place lined with asbestos an a wall can’t be opened with the huge effort to keep the asbestos friable that nothing gets fixed. Etc etc.

That‘s what I meant by Shit Hole. I wasn’t personal. And not mean’t as such.

People living in an around that base deserve better. One of our most important base therefore some of the most important people.

I’m actually not an asshole in person.

I have been to Cold Lake three times, only to visit. I found the PMQs to be not so good, the base itself isolated. It is not where I would like to go.

 

[Spencer100]

Every expensive Program is dynamite. Why would there be an election in 2023?

The clue is that the government is keeping it so quiet. The missteps on this file can be traced straight back to the current PM. Can not say its Harper fault when you buying that same damn thing with a seven years delay. (that may have been a good thing in some ways IE the first ones are not combat coded) Then the Boeing Bombardier thing is not a good look as all it did was see the end of the 3 third largest OEM implode. Bombardier is not a winning name for the electorate outside of Quebec. So bring that up is a non starter. Then lastly if this was a good file for the PM the Liberals would be announcing it from the rooftops as they are fulling their NATO, NORAD commitments seeing that they are not is a big tell. They don't want this file to see light but they also have to move on it from an international point of view. If there was no election 2023 they would have announced it knowing that by 2025 everyone will have forgotten.

 

[MTShaw]

The clue is that the government is keeping it so quiet. The missteps on this file can be traced straight back to the current PM. Can not say its Harper fault when you buying that same damn thing with a seven years delay. (that may have been a good thing in some ways IE the first ones are not combat coded)

Mixed blessing. To be fair, the Harper government had their 6 years too. Many people in Canada believe that defence is an option, whether a idealistic staunch conservative or painfully naive NDP followers.

Then the Boeing Bombardier thing is not a good look as all it did was see the end of the 3 third largest OEM implode.

It did prevent from the RCAF flying around in F-18s forever. The government will call an election when it sees fit, of course. I don’t know if the public is as senstive to sticker shoc/m as it war in 2009 (300-400 billion frigate program as an example).

 

[MTShaw]

The clue is that the government is keeping it so quiet.

They may have leaked by accident on purpose. Being a leak on this file could seriously f@ck up your life. Military and all. I worked for the the government and am still at risk for prosecution under Security of Information Act. I wouldn’t leak a thing without explicitly told to do it In writing.

And I retired in 2016.

 

[MilEME09]

They may have leaked by accident on purpose. Being a leak on this file could seriously f@ck up your life. Military and all. I worked for the the government and am still at risk for prosecution under Security of Information Act. I wouldn’t leak a thing without explicitly told to do it In writing.

And I retired in 2016.

It's Ottawa, the wall have ears, and the ears have ears

 

[CBH99]

Every expensive Program is dynamite. Why would there be an election in 2023?

What Spencer said, plus Liberal MP’s were quietly told the Friday before last to start fundraising after the holidays, as there will most likely be an election in the spring.

But mum is the word…

(Confirmed by a friend of mine who is currently a Liberal MP & hates Trudeau’s guts

 

[MTShaw]

What Spencer said, plus Liberal MP’s were quietly told the Friday before last to start fundraising after the holidays, as there will most likely be an election in the spring.

But mum is the word…

(Confirmed by a friend of mine who is currently a Liberal MP & hates Trudeau’s guts

Like I said, the current government can do it in the fall of 2024 if they think they can win.

OK guys, none of us are fans of our current PM. We should, however, leave the vitriol and bile. It will scare away left leaning people who are interested in defence in general and the F-35 specifically who could be allies In the future.

I made that mistake on then JSS sub-forum and pushed a person away. I won’t do that again.

 

[daftandbarmy]

What Spencer said, plus Liberal MP’s were quietly told the Friday before last to start fundraising after the holidays, as there will most likely be an election in the spring.

But mum is the word…

(Confirmed by a friend of mine who is currently a Liberal MP & hates Trudeau’s guts

You know what, being a good Canadian (mostly politically agnostic), a person like that would probably get my vote

 

[suffolkowner]

$7B for 16 seems like a lot. Im not too worried about the 88 its going to take time to get there and we need to find the people

 

[Maxman1]

Hopefully that includes all the other equipment, training and lifetime support, rather than just the base aircraft.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

$7B for 16 seems like a lot. Im not too worried about the 88 its going to take time to get there and we need to find the people

That includes the new hangars we have to build, plus weapons and spares.

 

[dimsum]

Hopefully that includes all the other equipment, training and lifetime support, rather than just the base aircraft.

From the article:

The Treasury Board approval covers an initial set of 16 F-35s, manufactured by Lockheed Martin, as well as spare parts, weapons and various startup costs associated with obtaining new jets, such as building new facilities.

 

[suffolkowner]

For some reason I thought they were doing the infrastructure separately. Its a funny way of accounting are the other 72 not going to have the infrastructure proportioned to them?

 

[MTShaw]

For some reason I thought they were doing the infrastructure separately. Its a funny way of accounting are the other 72 not going to have the infrastructure proportioned to them?

I didn’t think that Air and Infra swapped logs There used to be separate programs for new Hangars under the blueprint Infra in the DCA settings. Those programmed are no longer under Infra or air.

Project by Defence Capability Investment Area - Defence Capabilities Blueprint

Defence Capability Investment Areas (DCIAs) are smaller constituent components of DCAs. For example, avionics are a DCIA of the Air DCAs. Projects often include several DCIAs

dgpaapp.forces.gc.ca

The short and medium range missiles are still present under Missile Systems, though the BVRAAM program is not there. The former two might get subsumed. Who knows.

Project by Defence Capability Investment Area - Defence Capabilities Blueprint

Defence Capability Investment Areas (DCIAs) are smaller constituent components of DCAs. For example, avionics are a DCIA of the Air DCAs. Projects often include several DCIAs

dgpaapp.forces.gc.ca

I haven’t seen this much change this quickly since I started checking in on these things.

 

[SupersonicMax]

For some reason I thought they were doing the infrastructure separately. Its a funny way of accounting are the other 72 not going to have the infrastructure proportioned to them?

Some parts of the infrastructure are under FFCP, parts under DCFI and a couple of standalone (but important) items as part of base projects. It is a bit of a mess but at least the money is there.

 

[Good2Golf]

$7B for 16 seems like a lot. Im not too worried about the 88 its going to take time to get there and we need to find the people

It’s not…if it includes infra, FSims, initial provisioning and in-service support for the first 20 years.

Reference point: $5B for 15 CH-147F Chinooks….just big green helicopter without missiles.

$7B for 16 5th Gen fighters isn’t bad at all…

 

[Kirkhill]

Some parts of the infrastructure are under FFCP, parts under DCFI and a couple of standalone (but important) items as part of base projects. It is a bit of a mess but at least the money is there.

It's a bit of a mess....

Bug? Or feature?

 

[Kirkhill]

It’s not…if it includes infra, FSims, initial provisioning and in-service support for the first 20 years.

Reference point: $5B for 15 CH-147F Chinooks….just big green helicopter without missiles.

$7B for 16 5th Gen fighters isn’t bad at all…

When do we get the Poseidons and Wedgetails?

 

[OldSolduer]

I have a question:

How much fuel does this thing use in an hour? Just curious.