The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[Dana381]

The acquisition of a next-Gen fighter for the CAF has a large number of challenges not discussed in most public spaces. For example, the designers and builders of the a/c are VERY particular about its protection - so facilities and on-site security will be greatly enhanced, and must be in place before any F35 with a RCAF roundel parks in Cold Lake of Bagotville.

Add to that the iterative improvements made in the production line - early build F35s will never be FOC capable. Buying early a/c might have had hidden costs and risks.

You might be on to something,

Maybe the reason the F35 contract isn't signed yet is because the Americans don't trust our security? After all our PM idolizes the Chinese dictator and we have had a significant number of security leaks in the last decade.

It wasn't that long ago we had Chinese military personal watching our training

WARMINGTON: Communist Chinese troops observed military exercises on Canadian soil

The Department of National Defence has confirmed China’s People’s Liberation Army was indeed on Canadian soil in February of 2018 for the Canadian Armed Forces…

torontosun.com

 

[suffolkowner]

I thought they already signed the contracts to begin building new base infrastructure for Cold Lake and Bagotville

 

[FSTO]

The Hornets can operate out of there, as well as Inuvik. They are Forward Operating Locations.

Will the F35 need more infrastructure if they are to operate at these forward locations?

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Will the F35 need more infrastructure if they are to operate at these forward locations?

A lot of the FOLs were last updated at the tail end of the Cold War. They also have become staging areas for everyone from our ARCGs, the Rangers, the RCMP, the local Cadet Corps, and anyone else.

I imagine many communities would be not too happy to have armed presence patrols because .......F-35

 

[Retired AF Guy]

You might be on to something,

Maybe the reason the F35 contract isn't signed yet is because the Americans don't trust our security? After all our PM idolizes the Chinese dictator and we have had a significant number of security leaks in the last decade.

I'm pretty sure that every country that is flying the F-35 (or ordered the F-35) has at one time or another had spy scandals where military/politicians/security personnel were discovered to be spying for the Russians or Chinese or in one US case the Israelis.

 

[Good2Golf]

Maybe the reason the F35 contract isn't signed yet is because the Americans don't trust our security? After all our PM idolizes the Chinese dictator and we have had a significant number of security leaks in the last decade.

I think it’s because he’s trying to kick the cam down the road past the Spring election…we’ll end up getting them, no question. Trudeau just wants it to appear a soft acquisition, not an “I just signed the contract” albatross around his neck for the election.

 

[kev994]

I think it’s because he’s trying to kick the cam down the road past the Spring election…we’ll end up getting them, no question. Trudeau just wants it to appear a soft acquisition, not an “I just signed the contract” albatross around his neck for the election.

With a recurring 18-month election cycle the next election is always just around the corner.

 

[KevinB]

I think it’s because he’s trying to kick the cam down the road past the Spring election…we’ll end up getting them, no question. Trudeau just wants it to appear a soft acquisition, not an “I just signed the contract” albatross around his neck for the election.

But he also has to balance how it will play out when a CF-18 falls out of the sky killing a bunch of people…

 

[Good2Golf]

But he also has to balance how it will play out when a CF-18 falls out of the sky killing a bunch of people…

Knowing Trudeau, he’d figure a way to blame it on law-abiding gun owners.

 

[OldSolduer]

But he also has to balance how it will play out when a CF-18 falls out of the sky killing a bunch of people…

I wrote a letter to the editor over 30 years ago when the RCAF or whatever the air guys were called were looking to replace the Sea Kings. I stated the PM should have to address personally the family of the crews that died when they were killed in crashes because of mechanical failure due to age. I still feel the same today WRT to the 18s.

 

[KevinB]

I wrote a letter to the editor over 30 years ago when the RCAF or whatever the air guys were called were looking to replace the Sea Kings. I stated the PM should have to address personally the family of the crews that died when they were killed in crashes because of mechanical failure due to age. I still feel the same today WRT to the 18s.

And the lack of GBAD, ATGM’s, plus the Frigates etc.

 

[Quirky]

But he also has to balance how it will play out when a CF-18 falls out of the sky killing a bunch of people…

There is no immediate danger of that happening.

Cold Lake is a shit hole, and so is the base. Thank you for your service my ass.

An Examination of Canadian Forces Base Cold Lake (4 Wing)—Report - Canada.ca

ombudsman, national defence, canadian armed forces, government of canada, defence team, defence community, caf, dnd, report

www.canada.ca

Heard it got a Starbucks though. Cold Lake would be an excellent FIFO FOL for 2 week stints.....out of main operating base.

 

[CBH99]

This is a great opportunity to re-locate the fighter base out of cold lake. What a shit hole. Attach the new base to either Edmonton or Saskatoon airports, we need to stop hiding from the public.



Let the satellites and polar bears cover the area.

AMEN

I've thought that for ages. Build a separate military part to the airports of either city, like many American airports have.

Make sure they have their own runways & all that still so they don't impede civilian traffic, and can be used in an emergency if a plane needs to land & can't wait for ground traffic to clear.

Not only would the public profile of the RCAF go way up, the attrition rate would drop dramatically.


(Edmonton airport is surprisingly tiny for being the international airport for a decent sized city. I know they are modestly expanding it currently, but they could double the size of it & it would still be on the smaller side.)

Fun fact - the F-35 is a very loud aircraft.

Noise Level Comparisons: F-35 and other Aircraft

F-35 is 4 Times Louder than F-16 (Maximum Loudness) According to the Air Force EIS Vermont This data has not been made available for Truax EIS F-35 Final EIS Volume 1 from 2013 The Air Force did n…

www.safeskiescleanwaterwi.org

Holy crap! 4 times louder?

Okay, that's not N illegitimate concern when it comes to noise then...

Guess building the new facilities at CFB Edmonton it is then!



(Goodbye Cold Lake. Good riddance. The local economy will do just fine without us there)

 

[Good2Golf]

Guess building the new facilities at CFB Edmonton it is then!

If only the Army hadn’t built all its buildings on the Space Shuttle’s alternate runway..

 

[armrdsoul77]

I visited Cold Lake over the summer for the airshow. The community seems very proud and supportive of the base. It has natural security with black fly police for the summer and brutal cold for the winter. Being close to a big air weapons range must mean more actual training time(jets would return 30-40 mins after taking off due to low fuel I imagine).

 

[MTShaw]

I visited Cold Lake over the summer for the airshow. The community seems very proud and supportive of the base. It has natural security with black fly police for the summer and brutal cold for the winter. Being close to a big air weapons range must mean more actual training time(jets would return 30-40 mins after taking off due to low fuel I imagine).

A series of governments has let Cold Lake down. The people there are wonderful. The infrastructure, quarters etc are horrible. The place lined with asbestos an a wall can’t be opened with the huge effort to keep the asbestos friable that nothing gets fixed. Etc etc.

That‘s what I meant by Shit Hole. I wasn’t personal. And not mean’t as such.

People living in an around that base deserve better. One of our most important base therefore some of the most important people.

I’m actually not an asshole in person.

 

[Spencer100]

Is not the future worry more going to be coming from West coast than over the top? Russia won't be a threat in the future as their Armed Forces are gutted. Yes they will have a few TU-95 (May be not) to fly around but they are a going to be a spent force for sometime.

What would be the attack flight of the PLAAF H-20? Over top like airliners? Or something different?

 

[MilEME09]

Apparently the first 16 have to be ordered by the end if the year to stay schedule

Defence Department gets OK to spend $7 billion on 16 F-35 fighter jets: CP sources

The Department of National Defence recently received quiet approval to spend $7 billion on 16 F-35 fighter jets and related gear.

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[Spencer100]

Apparently the first 16 have to be ordered by the end if the year to stay schedule

Defence Department gets OK to spend $7 billion on 16 F-35 fighter jets: CP sources

The Department of National Defence recently received quiet approval to spend $7 billion on 16 F-35 fighter jets and related gear.

www.ctvnews.ca

Quietly is the important part......that is one of the biggest clue we are going to have an election in 2023. When does the government not make a big deal out of spending money? But this file is Kryptonite. You would think they would make a big deal about Canada's commitment to NATO etc. Nope.....Between, "No f-35", Boeing/Bomber, 2 eyes and most bidders pulling out. They have made a hash of the whole file.

Oh and the ordering in batches......what's the over/under on getting the whole 88?

And yes I get that the production of the F-35 is in lots so batches may make sense.

 

[dimsum]

Oh and the ordering in batches......what's the over/under on getting the whole 88?

It says in the article that ordering in tranches/batches isn't a new thing.

I don't think them releasing it quietly would mean an election is near. Commitment to NATO would be a great reason for LPC to announce it publicly, and saying something like "after further understanding of what the F-35 brings to the table, the GoC believes it is the best choice" yadayada.

The stuff about other bidders isn't necessarily political either. CANUS is a thing and some of the bidders would have had more of a challenge meeting the requirements.