The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[Kirkhill]

I dont know how we can argue against following the process from one side of our mouth and from the other side complain about political interference?

To my knowledge this is only the third procurement following the "new" process but after and throughout there remains much confusion about the steps and the decision making

MSVS-SMP
FWSAR
F35

Will we ever see anything that details on what basis the F35 was chosen?

I will stipulate the process. Presumably they are now happy with the steps in the process. Let us now codify the process so that it is reproducible and transparent and known to all. Amen.

Now, in the name of godalmighty can we pick up the pace and reduce 15 years by a day and half?

 

[Dana381]

Better a smaller well equipped Military than a large useless one. Just ask the Russians

I don't think equipped matters as much as training. Russia seems to have good equipment but they don't know how to use it.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Nicely laid out - calls a spade a spade.


John Robson: The Liberals behaved like fools over F-35 jets for years

Google News

Comprehensive up-to-date news coverage, aggregated from sources all over the world by Google News.

news.google.com

 

[Halifax Tar]

The Liberals behaved like fools over F-35 jets for years

That's pointy

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I don't think equipped matters as much as training. Russia seems to have good equipment but they don't know how to use it.

Both matter, to be truthful. Good operators using crappy kit also have the risk of critical mission failure. Planes that can’t take off, AFVs that can’t make it to/past the LOD, ships that can’t sail…these are all serious concerns as well.

You can Sim-train the blood out of me, but I’m not much good if the plane can’t launch.

 

[MilEME09]

Both matter, to be truthful. Good operators using crappy kit also have the risk of critical mission failure. Planes that can’t take off, AFVs that can’t make it to/past the LOD, ships that can’t sail…these are all serious concerns as well.

You can Sim-train the blood out of me, but I’m not much good if the plane can’t launch.

Yeap, and in the weapons world you see a lot more crazy sh*t when a barrel is forced through its entire life span in only a few short days of high intensity combat

 

[Maxman1]

We should also look at the new T-7 Red Hawk trainer to replace the CT-114 Tutor and CT-155 Hawk.

 

[The Bread Guy]

PROCESS, PROCESS, PROCESS! WE MUST PROSTRATE OURSELVES BELOW THE ALTER OF PROCESS. ALL HAIL THE PROCESS!!!!!!

Is sad because is true

For the record, our info-machine's version of "the talk" between CAN & USA yesterday (highlights mine) ....

Minister Anand updated Secretary Austin on Canada’s Future Fighter Capability Project, and in particular, the Government of Canada’s decision to enter the finalization phase of the procurement process with Lockheed Martin and the United States government for 88 new F-35 fighter aircraft. Through a competitive and independent procurement process, all bids were rigorously assessed on capability, cost, and economic benefit. The F-35 emerged as the top bidder, and has proven to be a mature, capable, and interoperable aircraft.

Minister Anand stated that this procurement represents the most significant investment in the Royal Canadian Air Force in more than 30 years. Canada’s new fleet of fighter jets will ensure that Canada is well-equipped to defend North America into the future, and that Canada can continue to meet its commitments to NORAD and NATO.

Minister Anand and Secretary Austin strongly condemned Russia’s ongoing attack against Ukraine, and agreed that Canada and the United States will continue to coordinate their efforts to provide Ukraine with comprehensive military assistance.

At this crucial time for global stability, Minister Anand and Secretary Austin agreed that Canada and the United States will continue to work closely together on ensuring the security of the Arctic and the North American continent more broadly.

Minister Anand reaffirmed Canada’s commitment to the Canada-U.S. Joint Statement on NORAD Modernization, which was issued on August 14, 2021, and discussed plans to move forward with implementation. Minister Anand stated that NORAD modernization is a key priority for the Government of Canada. Minister Anand and Secretary Austin will continue to work closely on plans to modernize NORAD – the cornerstone of the Canada-U.S. defence relationship – and Minister Anand reiterated her commitment to present a robust package to modernize NORAD in the short-term.

.... vs their info-machine's version

Secretary of Defense Lloyd J. Austin III and his Canadian counterpart, Minister of National Defence Anita Anand, met in Brussels on March 17, 2022, to discuss their shared commitment to the strength of the NATO alliance and their unwavering support for Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity in the face of Russia’s unprovoked attack on Ukraine. Both leaders reaffirmed the close defense relationship between the United States and Canada, and agreed on the importance of strategic investments in defense capabilities.

The two leaders agreed on the importance of continued support to Ukraine as it defends itself against Russian aggression. Secretary Austin thanked Minister Anand for Canada’s prompt contributions to NATO deterrence and defense on the Eastern Flank, as well as Canada’s willingness to impose strict sanctions on Russia.

 

[kev994]

Is sad because is true

For the record, our info-machine's version of "the talk" between CAN & USA yesterday (highlights mine) ....

.... vs their info-machine's version

Oh good, it’s mature now. Way better than back when it was canceled because it allegedly couldn’t fly.

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

Does this mean they are creating a CF 355 ( CF 188) production line in Quebec some where soon and quickly?

 

[dimsum]

Does this mean they are creating a CF 355 ( CF 188) production line in Quebec some where soon and quickly?

Canada already makes parts for the F-35 already - Boeing Winnipeg being one of the sites.

I would be shocked if LM allows final assembly to be anywhere other than the US.

 

[Spencer100]

Canada already makes parts for the F-35 already - Boeing Winnipeg being one of the sites.

I would be shocked if LM allows final assembly to be anywhere other than the US.

There are already two FACO's Final Assembly and Check Out facilities. One in Italy and one Japan. Canada could have one and LM would do it but the cost!!

 

[Kirkhill]

Canada already makes parts for the F-35 already - Boeing Winnipeg being one of the sites.

I would be shocked if LM allows final assembly to be anywhere other than the US.

As Dimsum says:

According to the 2020 OMX Economic Impact Study, approximately 150,000 jobs will be supported in Canada through the selection of the F-35. To date, Canadian companies have been awarded high value contracts as part of the F-35 global supply chain amounting to $2 billion USD as a result of Canada’s partnership in the F-35 program. The Canadian economy is anticipated to benefit by more than $16.9B CAD over the life of the program.

Canada has been an industry partner on the F-35 program for nearly 20 years and has nearly 200 projects identified in the Industrial Participation Plan.

110 Canadian companies have already been awarded contracts and have contributed to the development and production of the F-35. Thus far, Canadian companies invested approximately $120 million in capital investment for facility upgrades to win F-35 and maintain modern production equipment. Yet to be measured is the export opportunities already realized by small and medium-sized companies stemming from the expertise they have gained as an F-35 supplier. Being part of developing and producing the F-35 is without doubt a once in a generational experience for Canadian suppliers, innovators and aviators.

Canadian industry has more than $2 billion USD in industrial opportunities already contracted for the F-35 Lightning II program – more than double Canada’s current investment in the F-35. Canadian companies have played a large part in the development and production of the F-35, resulting in hundreds of Canadian jobs. According to an OMX report, the program will continue to bring manufacturing and production opportunities to Canada, with an estimated 150,000 jobs supported over the life of the program.

As the F-35 transitions into full-rate production, opportunities for Canadian industry will evolve and endure throughout the life cycle of the program. Canadian industry has the opportunity to produce and sustain components and systems to a fleet that is expected to grow to more than 3,500 aircraft.

Canada

The F-35A is the best value solution for replacing the CF-18 fleet and is available today to meet the needs of the Royal Canadian Air Force now and into the future.

www.f35.com

The economic benefits were baked in to the original programme 20 years ago. And Canadians have been cashing that cheque ever since.

 

[Kirkhill]

My error - 25 years ago, if you want to give Chretien, the Liberals and Alan Williams credit. Only 15 years ago if you want to give Harper and the Tories credit.

Canada has been a participant in the F-35 JSF program since 1997. This early involvement has been providing Canadian industry with the opportunity to become a part of the F-35 JSF supply chain.

In 2006, Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada signed Memoranda of Understanding containing industrial participation plans with each of the prime contractors (Lockheed Martin and Pratt & Whitney). These agreements allow Canadian companies to compete for work on the JSF program, including the airframe, systems, engines and associated services. Opportunities include providing a wide range of manufacturing and services in areas such as major structural assemblies, electronic systems, advanced composites, high speed machining, simulation and training, tooling, and sustainment.

F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program

Links to information on the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

www.ic.gc.ca

 

[MarkOttawa]

Canada already makes parts for the F-35 already - Boeing Winnipeg being one of the sites.

I would be shocked if LM allows final assembly to be anywhere other than the US.

F-35 final assembly is done in both Italy and Japan:

Work paused at F-35 facility in Japan due to coronavirus, Pentagon says

A F-35 fighter-jet factory has paused work due to ongoing concerns over the coronavirus. The F-35 jets are made at a Lockheed Martin factory in Texas but allies assemble jets for themselves at two final assembly and check out facilities in Japan and Italy.

www.cnbc.com

Mark
Ottawa

 

[OceanBonfire]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1509020007824388096

 

[Underway]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1509020007824388096

Lost opportunity cost is a thing. But I don't disagree with anything said there from the manufacturing and technology maturity perspective.

I guess we just dithered and bumbled our way into a good result...

 

[SupersonicMax]

Lost opportunity cost is a thing. But I don't disagree with anything said there from the manufacturing and technology maturity perspective.

I guess we just dithered and bumbled our way into a good result...

Except that from an operations point of view, we’re a decade behind our allies. We have 0 experience in employing 5th Gen platforms.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Except that from an operations point of view, we’re a decade behind our allies. We have 0 experience in employing 5th Gen platforms.

What about the loss of X% of talent - in terms of pilots/ground crew - who made the decision to leave over the last decade, who might have stayed, because they didn't see the future containing us flying the F-35?

There is also the cost in money/time/resources spent obtaining the 20+ used Aussie F-18's over the last decade and begin bringing them online.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Except that from an operations point of view, we’re a decade behind our allies. We have 0 experience in employing 5th Gen platforms.

Hey! Dont get in the way of mobile goal posts and spinning stories!