The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[MilEME09]

If we placed any in Europe my bet would be either Poland, or France.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Nope. The 22 is a ballet with some Zoom.
I saw the demo team in Chile several year ago. 180 turns on a dime, near hover pivots and then turn 90 to the sky hit burner and disappear upwards.

It was the first time I had ever been in total awe at an aircraft capability. It seemed unreal.

I saw the F22 at the Sheppard AFB air show. I literally could not believe what I was seeing. It seemed to defy physics.

 

[FSTO]

Listening to the minister of procurement dance around the question of picking the same plane the PM didn’t want just makes me feel that our Byzantine Procurement System is now set in cement and will never ever change.

 

[Good2Golf]

I saw the F22 at the Sheppard AFB air show. I literally could not believe what I was seeing. It seemed to defy physics.

The F22 air demo profile has significantly evolved over the years. The Flanker was thrashed, and quite impressively to be sure, from the first air show it flew. Smart folks did a pretty quick capability evaluation of the -27. I think the -22’s display was deliberately watered down for years to keep folks guessing…but more recently now that others have seen it ‘do its thing’, it’s been allowed to do its thing openly more recently…very impressive!

 

[AlexanderM]

So, it's the F-35 then??

Canada edges closer to F-35 jets deal with Lockheed Martin worth up to $15 billion | CNN

Canada has picked Lockheed Martin Corp as the preferred bidder to supply 88 new fighter jets, Procurement Minister Filomena Tassi said Monday, in a clear sign the US company is set to win the multibillion-dollar contract.

www.cnn.com

 

[RangerRay]

Shiny new planes, European postings, and a recent Top Gun sequel should bring people to the CFRCs.

If you build it, they will come.

 

[MilEME09]

If you build it, they will come.

well selecting a fighter does mean if we want to we could speed up some infrastructure, new air to air refueling, once the contract is signed, start sending pilots down to the states to begin training.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

“88 planes isn’t enough”.

We replaced 31 Argus (that had 24+ hour endurance and significant weapon carriage capacity) with 18 Auroras (that managed just over 17hours endurance with no kill/search stores onboard). Of those 18, 14 survived and will be Block 4 aircraft.

18 Auroras wasn’t enough. 14 is definitely not enough.

80 some tanks aren’t enough. 14 frigates and 3
Subs isn’t enough.

Point? The question is never how many are enough…fighters included.

 

[MilEME09]

“88 planes isn’t enough”.

We replaced 31 Argus (that had 24+ hour endurance and significant weapon carriage capacity) with 18 Auroras (that managed just over 17hours endurance with no kill/search stores onboard). Of those 18, 14 survived and will be Block 4 aircraft.

18 Auroras wasn’t enough. 14 is definitely not enough.

80 some tanks aren’t enough. 14 frigates and 3
Subs isn’t enough.

Point? The question is never how many are enough…fighters included.

we tend to keep wanting to do more with less, cause "oh this dohickey can do the same job as 4 thingamabobs" except it cannot be in four places at once. Look at logistics, we keep getting less trucks that carry more, looking at ukraine, this is showing why that is a very bad idea if your logistics are exposed to any attacks.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

An addendum to my post above.

FINALLY! Getting new jets.

Are we? Or is it a cunning plan to appear to be doing something to impress the neighbours and then declare an agreement could not be reached and further study of other options are needed. Which kicks that can down the road in the hops that the European Crisis has passed and can get on with more critical things like Climate Change Champion awards.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Yup. Someone mentioned above, “the more prices increase, the lower the number of replacements ordered becomes”. Words to that effect.

we tend to keep wanting to do more with less, cause "oh this dohickey can do the same job as 4 thingamabobs" except it cannot be in four places at once. Look at logistics, we keep getting less trucks that carry more, looking at ukraine, this is showing why that is a very bad idea if your logistics are exposed to any attacks.

Sniper round…politicians aren’t SMRT enough to get this concept.

 

[Maxman1]

Shiny new planes, European postings, and a recent Top Gun sequel should bring people to the CFRCs.

If only we could also get an aircraft carrier like the Italian Cavour to go with the F-35s, either built in Italy or under license in Canada.

 

[Weinie]

Nope. The 22 is a ballet with some Zoom.
I saw the demo team in Chile several year ago. 180 turns on a dime, near hover pivots and then turn 90 to the sky hit burner and disappear upwards.

It was the first time I had ever been in total awe at an aircraft capability. It seemed unreal.

My remark was, upon a similar viewing, "It's bending the sky."

 

[Czech_pivo]

Yup. Someone mentioned above, “the more prices increase, the lower the number of replacements ordered becomes”. Words to that effect.


Sniper round…politicians aren’t SMRT enough to get this concept.

Just to put things into perspective.
Our cost for the 138 F-18’s was 4$ billion USD and that was way before the magical accounting voodoo that is done today to inflate the initial purchase cost. Adjusting the 4$ billion USD 1982 dollars for inflation to today’s dollars works out to be 12$ billion USD.
If I divide the 138 F-18’s by 12$ billion USD we get a purchase price of 87.59$ million USD/plane. What’s the purchase price per F-35 going to be for us? About that price, correct?

If I take the 4$ billion in costs for the 138 F-18’s and divided that out by the 25m people who lived in Canada in 1982, it works out to be 480$/person in costs.

If I take the 17$ billion in costs for the 88 F-35’s and divide that out by the 38m people who live in Canada today, it works works to be 447$/person in costs.

It’s all bull crap. We are just the cheapest SOB’s in the world.

 

[WLSC]

Are we? Or is it a cunning plan to appear to be doing something to impress the neighbours and then declare an agreement could not be reached and further study of other options are needed. Which kicks that can down the road in the hops that the European Crisis has passed and can get on with more critical things like Climate Change Champion awards.

I would be so not surprised...

 

[suffolkowner]

I'll be pretty happy getting 88 F-35's. We have our work cut out for us just replacing the kit we have before we get carried away on some sort of Australian style expansion of capabilities

 

[Halifax Tar]

Listening to the minister of procurement dance around the question of picking the same plane the PM didn’t want just makes me feel that our Byzantine Procurement System is now set in cement and will never ever change.

I watched that too and it was loud and clear that that minister is the physical manifestation of everything that is wrong with our procurement system.

 

[FSTO]

I watched that too and it was loud and clear that that minister is the physical manifestation of everything that is wrong with our procurement system.

PROCESS, PROCESS, PROCESS! WE MUST PROSTRATE OURSELVES BELOW THE ALTER OF PROCESS. ALL HAIL THE PROCESS!!!!!!

 

[Halifax Tar]

PROCESS, PROCESS, PROCESS! WE MUST PROSTRATE OURSELVES BELOW THE ALTER OF PROCESS. ALL HAIL THE PROCESS!!!!!!

Her unfailing devotion to the preeminence of the process was utterly disgusting to witness.

That's best example I have ever seen of how bad our procurement system is.

 

[Quirky]

Her unfailing devotion to the preeminence of the process was utterly disgusting to witness.

That's best example I have ever seen of how bad our procurement system is.

Do not question the process of the state, Comrade. Government knows best. Maybe she can use her masters in religious education to pray for more equipment.