The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[Colin Parkinson]

RE; seen to be doing something...absolutely! :nod:

That said, Cons have had their moment, and tying back to the thread a wee bit, Harper still deserves a smack for letting his mis-assessed belief that he actually had a chance in 2015 get in the way of signing off the JSF acquisition.  :2c:

Regards
G2G

He had a good chance if he ran a short and focused election campaign (and actually relaxed the message control crap) in which case we would have had 2 Mistrals along with the Astreix and possibly her sister ship under conversion. As for the F35, I suspect it would still be in discussion phase, I think that Trump would not have the same issues with Harper as he does with JT, in fact I would expect Harper to string along the F-35 purchase as part of NAFTA talks. So I would have expected a announcement on F-35s after a NAFTA deal was done.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Swiss re-do fighter competition--note schedule compared to that for RCAF:

Switzerland kicks off fighter jet competition

Switzerland on Friday kicked off a multibillion-franc competition to replace its ageing fleet of F-5 fighter jets, and older model F/A-18 fighters, inviting five European and U.S. weapons makers to submit bids by January.

The Swiss defence ministry asked for bids from European aerospace group Airbus, France’s Dassault and Sweden’s Saab, as well as Boeing and Lockheed Martin from the United States.

Under its Air2030 programme, Switzerland is seeking to procure new combat aircraft and ground-based air defenses in a programme valued at up to 8 billion Swiss francs ($8.08 billion)...

In November, it said it wants the new planes to be delivered by 2025...

For Switzerland, the Eurofighter will square off against Dassault’s Rafale, Saab’s Gripen, Boeing’s F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and Lockheed’s F-35, the only contender that offers radar-evading stealth capabilities.

Switzerland had initially chosen the Saab Gripen E fighter but had to cancel that order after a 2014 referendum rejected the choice.

The Swiss procurement agency said it was asking the firms to submit pricing for 30 or 40 planes, including logistics and guided missiles, as well as an assessment of the number of aircraft necessary to fulfil the Swiss Air Force’s needs.

The manufacturers have until January 2019 to submit an offer, after which the planes will undergo tests and a second tender round will be opened, with an eye to finishing its assessment by the end of 2020. ($1 = 0.9895 Swiss francs)...
https://www.reuters.com/article/swiss-airforce/switzerland-kicks-off-fighter-jet-competition-idUSL8N1U242W

For RCAF:

...
Project Approval (Implementation) 2021-22
Contract Award 2021-22
Delivery First Aircraft Mid 2020s
Initial Operational Capability Mid 2020s
Delivery Final Aircraft Mid 2020s
Full Operational Capability Early 2030s
...
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-reports-pubs-report-plan-priorities/2018-status-report-transformational-crown-projects.page#futurefightercapability

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Buy a mixed fleet of European nato qualified fighters, EF-2000 tranch 3 and Gripen E/F.  The majority of our deployments are in the Middle East or Europe proper let’s shorten our supply lines.

NORAD mission?

 

[dimsum]

NORAD mission?

Pffft.  Everyone knows that the media doesn't care about "normal" missions, or "normies"...

 

[MarkOttawa]

No mention of RCAF:

Royal Air Force Receives Most Capable Typhoons Yet

As Britain’s Royal Air Force (RAF) begins receiving the most capable Eurofighter Typhoons yet, the four-nation program is gearing up for a wave of potential new sales.

So far, the RAF has received 26 Eurofighter Typhoons kitted out with the initial elements of the Project Centurion upgrade package, enabling the Typhoon to take on the vast majority of the missions performed by the Panavia Tornado GR4 which is being phased out of service at the end of March next year.

The first elements of Centurion were actually quietly introduced onto the RAF Typhoons in January 2017, explained Air Commodore Linc Taylor, the RAF’s senior responsible officer for delivering UK air combat capability, speaking at the Royal International Air Tattoo on July 13. These initial upgrades were a “wrap up” of some systems on the aircraft that had not been updated for several years. This was subsequently followed by the integration of the Phase 2 Enhancements (P2E) package which enables the use of the MBDA Meteor beyond visual range air-to-air missile and an initial Storm Shadow air-launched cruise missile capability.

“This is the greatest changes in the software of the aircraft,” said Taylor, “It significantly enhances the bread and butter of the aircraft, and the way pilot interacts with the human-machine interface.”

Then, BAE is planning to install the P3E package, which will enable the use of the Brimstone air-to-ground missile by the end of the year.

“The Typhoon is going to be the backbone of the RAF’s combat mass for at least another 20 years…my intent is to accelerate on Typhoon, now that the aircraft is relatively mature, we should be able to do things faster.”

In the future, Britain is planning to integrate the Spear 3 network-enabled lightweight missile, which will also equip the F-35 as well as the Leonardo Britecloud active decoy recently declared operational on the Tornado. Britain is also funding the development of a more advanced version of the Euroradar Captor E active-electronically-scanned array, or so-called e-scan radar. While Kuwait will be the first customer of the Captor-E in the European Common Radar System Mk.1 configuration, Britain wants the Mk.2 or Radar 2 configuration which is expected to add an electronic attack capability.

The Eurofighter consortium sees a potential for another 300 Typhoon orders [emphasis added] in the coming years. In March, the Saudi government signed a letter of intent with the UK to purchase as many as 48 Typhoons to supplement the 72 aircraft the Kingdom had already taken delivery. The UK is also leading campaigns to sell the Typhoon into Belgium and Finland. Belgium is expected to make a selection decision in the coming weeks. Perhaps the largest opportunity lies in Germany where the aircraft is being proposed as a replacement for the Panavia Tornado and will have to take up many of the German air force Tornado missions including the suppression and destruction of enemy air defenses and the nuclear strike role with the B61 weapon, which Berlin has access to under a dual-key arrangement with the U.S [emphasis added].

Airbus is also proposing upgrades for the Eurofighter’s Eurojet EJ200 engine and using its growth potential to boost thrust by up to 15% in some flight profiles, as well as make improvements to fuel consumption.

“We are going to have this jet around until 2040 [emphasis added] … it is going to evolve and develop, and these will be technologies that enable us to move into the future fighter domain,” said Dave Armstrong, director of European and International business for BAE's Air division.

The RAF had planned on retiring its Tranche 1 Typhoons in favor of holding onto Tranche 2 and 3 jets, however the Strategic Defense and Security Review of 2015, called for the expansion of the UK’s combat aircraft fleets, and the creation of up to three new Typhoon squadrons and retaining the Tranche 1 jets until 2030 [emphasis added]. The UK declared that it would reform 12 Sqdn, until recently a Tornado unit, as the fifth Typhoon front-line squadron. The unit would also have a role in training Qatar Emiri Air Force pilots as that air arm gears up to operate 24 Typhoons from 2022. Then, in the run-up to the Farnborough Airshow, the Royal Air Force Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Sir Stephen Hillier announced that the RAF’s seventh Typhoon unit would be 9 Sqdn, reforming at RAF Lossiemouth in Scotland.
http://aviationweek.com/farnborough-airshow-2018/royal-air-force-receives-most-capable-typhoons-yet-0

Mark
Ottawa

 

[PuckChaser]

No mention of RCAF:

Because we have no idea what we're doing yet.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Because we have no idea what we're doing yet.

Wasn't that the plan, to 'not know' so we don't actually do anything?

Or...wait...something something...operational capability gap that must be addressed...

 

[Kirkhill]

Of Hurricanes, Typhoons and Tempests.....

UK unveils new Tempest fighter jet model
16 July 2018

A model of the UK's planned new fighter jet, the Tempest, has been unveiled at the Farnborough Air Show.

The UK's Defence Secretary, Gavin Williamson, said the jet could be used with either pilots or as a drone.

The craft will eventually replace the existing Typhoon fighter jet. It will be developed and built by BAE Systems, engine maker Rolls-Royce, Italy's Leonardo and missiles expert MBDA.

Mr Williamson said the UK would be investing £2bn in the new project.

The hope is to see it flying by 2035.

Mr Williamson said the programme was aimed at ensuring the UK's continued leadership in fighter technology and control of air space in future combat: "We have been a world leader in the combat air sector for a century, with an enviable array of skills and technology, and this strategy makes clear that we are determined to make sure it stays that way."

He added that the UK, currently excluded from the latest fighter programme underway between France and Germany, was not against forming a partnership with other nations: "It shows our allies that we are open to working together to protect the skies in an increasingly threatening future - and this concept model is just a glimpse into what the future could look like."

'Direction of travel'

According to BBC defence correspondent Jonathan Beale, the Tempest looks remarkably similar to the current generation of stealth jets, including the US developed-F 35.

Its sleek lines are designed to be hard to detect by radar, but unlike the current generation of jets it could also operate as a drone without a pilot.

It would also be the first British-designed jet to carry laser directed energy weapons capable of shooting down aircraft and missiles.

Aeropace giant Airbus welcomed the new jet programme: "Airbus welcomes the UK's commitment of funding for the future fighter project. We look forward to continuing collaborative discussions with all relevant European players."

Earlier, the chief executive of BAE Systems, Charles Woodburn, told the BBC's Today programme that the new jet would be some time in coming.

"We already have the Typhoon platform which forms the absolute bedrock of European air defence and that'll be in service for decades to come," he said.

He added that the inner workings of the new craft would start life within the Typhoon.

"The important thing about the new concept is that it will illustrate a direction of travel and many of those technologies that will be embodied in that will first see their service through the Typhoon.

"For example, upgrades on the avionics, upgrades in the weapons systems, upgrades in the radar will be deployed through the Typhoon and will be deployed there and then."

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44848294

 

[MarkOttawa]

If USAF goes ahead with new-build F-15Xs as replacement for C/Ds, worth considering for RCAF esp. with NORAD mission in mind? Note cost (extracts from longish piece):

Exclusive: Unmasking The F-15X, Boeing's F-15C/D Eagle Replacement Fighter
Boeing and the USAF have been in talks for a year and a half about replacing the aging F-15C/D with a brand new advanced Eagle derivative, the F-15X.

Last week, the aerospace-defense community was overwhelmingly intrigued by a report from Defenseone.com that said Boeing was pitching a new variant of its 45-year-old F-15 Eagle line of fighters to the United States Air Force. Still, next to nothing is known about this initiative, including where it came from and what it entails exactly. Although it has been framed as a Boeing solicitation to the USAF, the opposite is actually true—the USAF began the discussion over a year and a half ago. Since then, ongoing talks have been kept incredibly hush-hush, along with the details of the aircraft involved—until now.

According to sources familiar with the discussions, The War Zone has learned about the F-15X's origins, its intended capabilities and features, and where it would fit inside the USAF's tactical airpower ecosystem.

The F-15X came out of a quiet USAF inquiry to Boeing and Lockheed Martin about fielding an aircraft that could seamlessly plug into their existing air combat infrastructure as part of better-defined high-low capability mix strategy—one intended to specifically help counter the service's shrinking force structure.

The airframe would have to be cost-effective both in terms of operation and acquisition, very low-risk, and most of all, it would need to be non-disruptive to the larger F-35 procurement initiative. If anything else, it had to be seen as complementary to the F-35, not as an alternative to it...

As time moved on, it became clear that the F-35 might not be the USAF's one-size-fits-all solution some thought it would be. This is not a mark against the F-35, but just the reality that the USAF has tactical air power needs that don't necessitate or even benefit from the F-35's unique and costly capabilities.

...Our sources describe the aircraft as a single seat variant of the latest F-15 advanced Strike Eagle derivative—the F-15QA destined for Qatar—but it will also integrate many of the features and upgrades that the USAF intends (or intended as it may be) to include on its nearly four-decade-old F-15C/D fleet. And no, the aircraft is not a repackaging of the semi-stealthy F-15 Silent Eagle concept that Boeing floated nearly a decade ago. The F-15X features no low-observable enhancements of any kind.

The F-15X configuration is impressive as it includes a flat-panel glass cockpit, JHMCS II helmet mounted display (HMD), revised internal wing structure, fly-by-wire controls, APG-82 AESA radar, activation of outer wing stations one and nine, advanced mission computer, low-profile heads-up display, updated radio and satellite communications, the highly advanced Eagle Passive Active Warning Survivability System (EPAWSS) electronic warfare and electronic surveillance suite, Legion Pod-mounted infrared search and track system (IRST) and the list goes on.

With the help of the company's new AMBER missile carrying racks, the F-15X will be able to carry a whopping 22 air-to-air missiles during a single sortie [emphasis added--NORAD?]. Alternatively, it could fly with eight air-to-air missiles and 28 Small Diameter Bombs (SDBs), or up to seven 2,000lb bombs and eight air-to-air missiles...

What the F-15X doesn't include is a high price. The War Zone has learned that Boeing intends to deliver the F-15X at a flyaway cost well below that of an F-35A—which runs about $95M per copy [emphasis added]. And this is not just some attempt to grab business and then deliver an aircraft that costs way more than promised. Our sources tell us that Boeing is willing to put their money where their mouth is via offering the F-15X under a fixed priced contract.

...the jet is intended t directly replace the USAF's entire F-15C/D fleet. It would have no impact on the existing F-15E Strike Eagle fleet or its planned upgrade pathway that is underway now.

Currently, the F-15C/D force is largely arrayed along America's maritime borders, with five Air National Guard units flying the type. A squadron at RAF Lakenheath in England and two squadrons at Kadena Air Base in Japan round out the full front-line force...
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/22372/exclusive-unmasking-the-f-15x-boeings-f-15c-d-eagle-replacement-fighter

Mark
Ottawa

 

[PuckChaser]

F-15X could be the flying bomb truck the F-35 is meant to lead into battle. The article is also incorrect, the next batch of F-35As in 2019 are approx $85M USD flyaway, and dropping.

 

[CBH99]

Curious to hear from some experienced AF guys or SME on the idea.

On the surface, it seems like a solid & potentially better option -- to my non-expert ears.

The known platform of the F-15, upgraded to the max with new radar, EW equipment, and the ability to haul big payloads.  Plus a flyaway cost similar to an F-35, perhaps even less than.  20,000hrs on the airframe before a SLEP is required?  That's pretty amazing!

I don't buy the whole "We can ONLY to NORAD with Stealth!" argument.  And if the RCAF ever gets serious about an anti-ballistic missile mission, the F-15X could carry an ballistic missile killing payload. 


Interested in thoughts on the matter.  (Although I know we've discussed this in length on multiple threads before...)

 

[PuckChaser]

Its built by Boeing, and we're in a pissing match with Boeing right now. Until that changes, I doubt the F-15X or the Super Hornet will even be allowed to bid.

 

[dapaterson]

Its built by Boeing, and we're in a pissing match with Boeing right now. Until that changes, I doubt the F-15X or the Super Hornet will even be allowed to bid.

Dash-8s with a side-mounted C9 for the win!

 

[Good2Golf]

Dash-8s with a side-mounted C9 Browning for the win!

There you go, Big Guy! 

 

[dapaterson]

There you go, Big Guy! 

Don't be ridiculous.  After Toronto, there's gonna be a handgun ban.

 

[FSTO]

If the results of this survey is true, we could go out and buy everything we need right off the US factory floor and nobody in Canada would give two hoots.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/military-is-off-the-radar-of-most-canadians-dnd-poll-1.4754083

Most Canadians seem only vaguely aware they have a military and are decidedly confused — or uncertain — about what it does, according to new research conducted for National Defence.

The biennial report, carried out this year by Earnscliffe Strategy Group, found that while general and specific knowledge was low, appreciation for individuals who serve was high.

The report, dated July 4, examined what sort of public perception remained following the release of the Liberal government's marquee defence policy last year.

The findings stand in abrupt contrast to surveys over the last decade, where the Afghan war seared awareness of the military into the public consciousness.

The inconspicuous profile is a significant challenge for a military that is attempting to increase the size of the regular and reserve forces.

"Awareness of and familiarity with the [Canadian Armed Forces] was generally very low; virtually non-existent among those in the younger age group," said the research report, which included focus groups and a telephone survey conducted last winter and spring.

"Indeed, few had recently seen, read or heard anything about the [Canadian Armed Forces]."

Only 26 per cent say they had some awareness of what the military had been doing in the last year and less than half — 42 per cent — described themselves as "somewhat familiar" with the Forces.

Peacekeeping still top of mind
Presentation of the research comes just a week after Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced increased commitments to NATO missions in Latvia and Iraq.

The report found recognition that there were troops overseas, but an ill-defined notion of where they were and what they were doing.

"Most participants had a hard time conjuring up where they thought Canada was currently active internationally, though some brought up involvement in Iraq, Afghanistan, peacekeeping missions in Africa and disaster relief in Haiti," said the report.

The impression Canadians were involved in peacekeeping was also deeply embedded, even though the number of soldiers assigned to UN missions was — until just very recently — at an all-time low. Up to 250 aircrew and soldiers for a helicopter detachment supporting the UN peacekeeping force in Mali will be fully in place later this summer.

The survey portion found 90 per cent of those asked believed Canadian troops should be conducting disaster assistance on the world stage, followed closely at 85 per cent by those who believe in conducting peace support missions.


Members of the Canadian Forces move their luggage before taking off from CFB Trenton on July 5. The soldiers are heading to Mali for Operation Presence to support the United Nations peace mission. (Lars Hagberg/Canadian Press)
During the Afghan war, participants in previous surveys bemoaned how the combat mission in Kandahar had changed the character of the Canadian military, and they pined for a return to the day of peacekeeping.

At home, the majority of people see the military's mission as combating terrorism, but beyond that they're not quite sure what the military should be doing.

Domestic role unclear
"Participants were hard-pressed to volunteer what roles they believed the [Canadian Armed Forces] plays domestically," said the report.

There was, in fact, confusion among focus group respondents about the military's role in the Arctic, a policy the previous Conservative government held dear.

"Many were surprised to learn about the [Canadian Armed Forces]'s role in patrolling the Arctic and there was some uncertainty about the importance of this role, particularly among the younger participants," said the research report. "They tended to think of the CAF's role in the Arctic as being about protecting the environment, while the older group was more aware of the territorial 'dispute' with Russia, Denmark, and the U.S."

The research is disturbing but not surprising to Rob Huebert, a political science professor at the University of Calgary and a senior research fellow with the Centre for Military and Strategic Studies.

He said it's troubling because the world has become more unstable, and by the Liberal government's own admission Canada cannot depend any longer on the United States to defend it.

The findings of the survey and the focus groups, Huebert said, show fundamental lack of understanding about the role of the military in the world, and that does not bode well for recruiting and for society in general.

'Memories are short'
It should have been entirely expected and cannot necessarily be addressed by ad campaigns and community outreach, he said.

"We haven't had anything in your face since Afghanistan," he said. "Memories are short."

Aside from the absence of a high-profile conflict, Huebert said, provincial education systems have focused on culture rather than conflict when teaching history.


Canadian Special Forces troops launch into a mission from a base in Erbil, Iraq, on Nov. 14, 2016. (Murray Brewster/CBC)
"Many educators are uncomfortable with the idea of getting up and saying we need a military where individuals are trained to — if necessary — kill others," he said.

The federal political culture for decades has also contributed to a collective amnesia.

"Ultimately, the horrible thing about all of this is that we've had the luxury of always depending upon the Americans to take care of anything that is really nasty. So, therefore, we can pretend the military is there as a warm and fuzzy thing," Huebert said.

The current government's focus on the so-called softer aspects of defence — peacekeeping and gender equality — could backfire if a serious conflict erupts, he said.

'Demilitarizing our military'
"The Liberal have been very successful in demilitarizing our military," said Huebert. "We have men and women in harm's way in Ukraine and in Latvia, and if they blow up I think you're going to have an awful lot of shocked Canadians because they'd be saying, 'I thought our military was all about the environment and peacekeeping.'"

A spokesman for National Defence said the report helps inform the department's recruiting strategy, and much of that effort is being channelled through digital platforms.

"These platforms typically include both social media and traditional websites," said Dan Le Bouthillier in a statement.

"In addition, DND and the CAF have multiple social media channels that are used to amplify the recruitment message and support the online advertising campaign."

The report, which cost $144,650.55 including taxes, was based on focus groups held in four cities during February, with two groups (18- to 34-year-olds and 35- to 65-year-olds) in each city.

Quantitative results were based on a telephone survey of 1,524 Canadians conducted between April 30 and May 21 by the polling firm Léger, with the weighted results considered accurate within a margin of error of plus or minus 2.53 per cent.

Clarifications
This story has been updated from a previous version that referred to the military report as "bi-annual." In fact, the report is biennial, released every two years.
Jul 20, 2018 11:36 AM ET

 

[MarkOttawa]

Two tweets of mine:

1) https://twitter.com/Mark3Ds/status/1022266744558288897

@Mark3Ds

If #USAF does buy substantial number of new-build #F15X, better late than never for #F15 and #RCAF? Around for decades, we'd be fully interoperable, decent price, great for #NORAD--the #CF15 Loonie? @RCAF_ARC

2) https://twitter.com/Mark3Ds/status/1022270062491836416

@Mark3Ds

Last time Canada actually selected new fighter--1978 "Although a favorite of the Canadian military, the McDonnell Douglas #F15 was ruled out because it was too expensive" #RCAF
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/canada/cf-18.htm

Mark
Ottawa

 

[dapaterson]

Apocrypha states that the twin engine requirement in '78 was inserted to force the F-15 as the choice, lest someone opt for the F-16...

Lesson (hopefully) learned: Be careful what machinations you engage in.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

My vague understanding is the new F-15 can carry that large payload for a much greater range than a similar payload on the F-35, which would not be very stealthy in that configuration.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Meanwhile RCAF awaits 25 used RAAF Hornets:

USS Carl Vinson flies last legacy Hornets during RIMPAC drills

This month’s Rim of the Pacific exercise in Hawaii will mark the end of the line for the Navy’s “Baby Hornets.”

Ten F/A-18C multirole supersonic combat jets on the USS Carl Vinson aircraft carrier will be traded for newer, larger F/A-18E Super Hornets in January, said Lt. Kevin Frattin, the “senior-junior” officer for Strike Fighter Squadron 34 out of Virginia Beach, Va.

“You’re not going to see a Hornet on an aircraft carrier, at least with U.S. Navy painted on it, ever again,” he said during a tour of the carrier on Saturday [July 21]...

The legacy Hornet, which some claim is nimbler and more agile than its replacement, will be missed by pilots, Frattin said.

“It’s a lot of fun to fly,” he said. “For some things we could do, we were the only ones who could do it.”..
https://www.stripes.com/news/uss-carl-vinson-flies-last-legacy-hornets-during-rimpac-drills-1.539180

Mark
Ottawa