The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[suffolkowner]

are not all our CF-18's based at Bagotville and Cold Lake?

 

[dimsum]

are not all our CF-18's based at Bagotville and Cold Lake?

Yes.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Yes.

I thought we had aircraft effectively based at Trenton, Comox, Gander, etc. as well?  Even if the squadron administration's are still centralized in Cold Lake and Bagotville?

My point being if we do deployments to those.bases, we should account for those requirements  in the planning stages when looking at aircraft numbers required.

 

[dimsum]

I thought we had aircraft effectively based at Trenton, Comox, Gander, etc. as well?  Even if the squadron administration's are still centralized in Cold Lake and Bagotville?

My point being if we do deployments to those.bases, we should account for those requirements  in the planning stages when looking at aircraft numbers required.

Those places occasionally get the odd Hornet passing through, but not "based" in the sense you're talking about. 

 

[Quirky]

I thought we had aircraft effectively based at Trenton, Comox, Gander, etc. as well?

That would bring up moral and improve attrition rates substantially, something the government is strongly against.

 

[MarkOttawa]

No problem with Super Hornet--upgraded--being around for our (whenever finished) competition:

Boeing Super Hornet program gets second life through future sales and upgrades

Boeing is expecting an important delivery this week: the arrival of the first Super Hornet slated to undergo a service life extension at the company’s production line in St. Louis, Missouri.

The work will kick off a decade long “service life modification” effort that will increase the lifespan of the U.S. Navy’s F/A-18E/F aircraft from 6,000 to 9,000 flight hours, but also transform them into the newest Block III configuration, said Dan Gillian, Boeing’s program manager for the Super Hornet and Growler.

The SLM effort, coupled with future Super Hornet procurement spelled out in the fiscal 2019 budget, has given the F/A-18E/F program a second life. Earlier this decade, it was thought that Super Hornet production could end as early as 2016 or 2017.

Now the situation has changed entirely.

"We feel good through the end of 2025 at our current production rate of two per month, and there are lots of opportunities to extend beyond that, perhaps to increase the rate,” Gillian told Defense News in an interview.

That new business translates into a massive windfall for Boeing.

The Navy intends to spend about $9.2 billion to procure 110 Block III Super Hornets from FY19-FY23, budget documents show. Those jets will roll off Boeing’s production line in 2020 with a 9,000-hour service life, conformal fuel tanks that increase its range, a new cockpit, an enhanced network architecture and signature management improvements that include a reapplication of its stealthy coating.

And although Boeing is not disclosing the projected value of the SLM and Block III retrofit efforts, they will probably net Boeing a hefty sum by the time they are completed in the late 2020s.

...very effective lobbying campaign by Boeing, which was supported by lawmakers in Congress. Navy leaders have grappled with a fighter jet shortage for years, but they kept requests for additional Super Hornets out of their budget requests due to fiscal limitations...

Every carrier air wing will have at least one squadron comprised of Block III Super Hornets by 2024. A second squadron is slated to arrive in 2027 or 2028, depending on when aircraft are induced...
https://www.defensenews.com/digital-show-dailies/navy-league/2018/04/04/boeing-super-hornet-program-gets-second-life-through-future-sales-and-upgrades/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[MilEME09]

interesting foot note,

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/streetwise/article-bidding-heats-up-for-bombardier-downsview-site/

confirmed on their facebook page Bourdeau Industries has made a bid for Bombardier's downsview site, for all that have forgotten they want to build a updated and modern version of the avro arrow. Apparently they are the only group wanting to keep the site for aerospace industry, and have secured financing. If they secure the site, and at the rate the government is stalling they might actually have an aircraft by the time we launch the competition.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

LOL that would be ironic  8)

 

[Spencer100]

I wonder what this aircraft is.  Is it just a F-35+ and this is marketing talk?


http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/192654/lockheed-to-offer-japan-new-hybrid-fighter-based-on-f_22%2C-f_35-technologies.html

 

[winnipegoo7]

interesting foot note,

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/streetwise/article-bidding-heats-up-for-bombardier-downsview-site/

confirmed on their facebook page Bourdeau Industries has made a bid for Bombardier's downsview site, for all that have forgotten they want to build a updated and modern version of the avro arrow. Apparently they are the only group wanting to keep the site for aerospace industry, and have secured financing. If they secure the site, and at the rate the government is stalling they might actually have an aircraft by the time we launch the competition.

Isn't the "new Avro Arrow" thing just a joke??

According to the Walrus:

Bourdeau Industries Ltd. has no experience building airplanes, no paid employees, and no office aside from Bourdeau’s home in suburban Ottawa.

https://thewalrus.ca/air-apparent/

And according to Company Check - Bourdeau's (former??) UK based company has a networth of - £898,021.00 (that's negative; aka deeply in debt).

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/04877569/BOURDEAU-INDUSTRIES-LTD/companies-house-data

 

[PuckChaser]

The whole recreate the Avro Arrow is a joke, not just the "company" involved.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

The whole recreate the Avro Arrow is a joke, not just the "company" involved.

And didn't we have another thread about this a few years ago?

 

[MarkOttawa]

Bets on whether Finnish air force or RCAF gets new fighter first (note Finns' number, almost what Conservatives planned):

Finland invites bids to supply 64 fighter jets 

Finland invited bids on Friday [April 27] to supply 64 multi-role fighter aircraft to replace its ageing fleet of F/A-18 Hornet jets, due to be phased out from 2025.

The deal is expected to cost 7-10 billion euros ($9-12 billion). Possible candidates include Saab’s Gripen, Dassault’s Rafale, Boeing’s Super Hornet, Lockheed Martin’s F-35 and the Eurofighter, a joint project by Airbus, BAE and Leonardo.

...performance of the jets would be the main criterion and Finland was committed to thorough talks with all plane makers.

U.S. President Donald Trump suggested last year that Finland had already chosen Hornets, made by U.S. group Boeing, but Finland denied that.

Helsinki is asking manufacturers to provide price quotations for the new jets by early 2019, and plans to make the final decision in 2021 [emphasis added].

Finland shares a 1,340km (833 miles) border and a difficult history with Russia. It has compulsory military service for all men and is one of six members of the European Union that have not also joined NATO.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-finland-jets/finland-invites-bids-to-supply-64-fighter-jets-idUSKBN1HY27V

As for Canada:

Future Fighter Industry Day Statements[January 22, 2018]
...
Lisa Campbell, Assistant Deputy Minister, Defence and Marine Procurement Branch, Public Services and Procurement Canada
...
Following negotiations and selection of the best-value solution to meet Canada’s future fighter capability requirements, contract award is anticipated in 2021/2022, and delivery of the first replacement aircraft is planned for 2025...
https://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/app-acq/amd-dp/air/snac-nfps/remarques-remarks-eng.html

Sigh.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[tomahawk6]

Are't you getting the F-35 ? Thats next generation Due to its stealth characteristics.You wont get that in an EU fighter.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The whole recreate the Avro Arrow is a joke, not just the "company" involved.

These guys may be flying their Arrow before we make up our minds http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-avro-arrow-model-flight-museum-1.4049398

 

[MarkOttawa]

What might this mean--excuse for delay? Company's connections?

Commerce Decisions Awarded Contract to Support DND’s Future Fighter Capability Project

Commerce Decisions, a QinetiQ company, has secured a strategically important contract with the Government of Canada to support the competitive procurement process to replace Canada’s fighter fleet with 88 advanced jets.

As outlined in Canada’s defence policy, Strong, Secure, Engaged, Canada will purchase the fighter aircraft to contribute to the safety and security of Canadians and to meet Canada’s international obligations. A modern fighter jet fleet is essential for defending Canada and Canadian sovereignty and to contribute to its NORAD and NATO commitments, now and in the future. The acquisition will include associated equipment, weapons, and sustainment set-up and services to ensure a Canadian Fighter capability that leverages Canadian industry capabilities and contributes to economic growth and jobs.

Commerce Decisions, in conjunction with QinetiQ Ltd and QinetiQ Group Canada Ltd has been awarded the contract via Department for National Defence’s (DND) TSPS Supply Arrangement (Task and Solutions Professional Services) following a competitive bidding process. The Future Fighter Capability Project (FFCP) is being run by DND, Public Services and Procurement Canada (PSPC), and Innovation, Science and Economic Development (ISED); Commerce Decisions will support the development of the Bid Evaluation Plan for the competitive procurement process, as well as support PSPC in its oversight role of the Bid Evaluation process. The work includes support in preparing the evaluation strategy, methodology, and associated criteria & weightings, leading to the production of bid evaluation guidelines and plans.

In meeting the needs of the client, Commerce Decisions will deliver its proven methodologies – including Structured Criteria Development (SCD) and Real Value for Money (RVfM); and will deploy its most experienced principal procurement consultants to ensure a rigorous, evidence-based and robustly designed and delivered assessment schema for this programme...
http://www.canadiandefencereview.com/news?news/2513

Company is British:
https://cd.qinetiq.com/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Journeyman]

Commerce Decisions Awarded Contract to Support DND’s Future Fighter Capability Project

Ah, but look at all the money saved, since we'll obviously  be cutting those senior RCAF, DND/ADM(Mat), PSPC, etc fighter acquisition positions now made redundant.  Kind of like the legislative staff cuts, which I'm sure will be announced momentarily, from giving elected Parliamentarians' firearms decisions to the RCMP.

One may suspect that there's a trend to divest any decision-making that may hurt a voting block's feelings, while focusing on special interest sound-bytes & pork-barrelling opportunities (ie - do nothing  substantive until after the next election).  :nod:

/cynicism

 

[Cloud Cover]

Wasn't that the plan  after the last election (delaying while spending and studying). It seems to be working....

 

[Uzlu]

Exclusive: Canada Could Make It Harder for U.S. to Win Fighter Bid - Sources

OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canada is discussing changes to a multibillion-dollar fighter jet procurement process that could make it harder for a U.S. company to win the order as trade relations between the neighbors sour, two sources with direct knowledge of the discussions said.

Canada is considering whether to penalize companies from countries that have caused it economic damage, the sources said on Wednesday. While a final decision is not expected before next year and the threat could be posturing, the move shows how the Trump administration's trade disputes are spilling over into other areas.

A spokeswoman for federal Procurement Minister Carla Qualtrough - who has overall responsibility for major purchases of military equipment - declined to comment. Sources declined to be identified as the discussions are confidential.

Boeing Co's F-18 Super Hornet and Lockheed Martin Corp's F-35 fighter were among the favorites to capture the contract to supply 88 planes, worth between C$15 billion ($11.3 billion) and C$19 billion.

Defense sources have long said the Canadian air force would prefer an American-built jet, citing the importance of operating easily with U.S. armed forces.

But a change in procurement terms would give more of a chance to European suppliers: Airbus SE , which makes the Eurofighter; Saab AB , which makes the Gripen; and Dassault Aviation , which makes the Rafale.

Defense sources, however, say the European jets are likely to become obsolete by around 2040, at which point they could no longer incorporate the latest technologies.

Canada has been trying unsuccessfully for almost a decade to buy replacements for its aging F-18 fighters, some of which are 40 years old. The former Conservative administration said in 2010 it would buy 65 F-35 jets but later scrapped the decision, triggering years of delays and reviews.

Ottawa has already said bids will be evaluated in part by examining whether firms competing for the order have caused any past economic damage to Canada. Officials said at the time this was aimed at Boeing, which last year launched a trade challenge against Canadian planemaker Bombardier Inc .

Government officials are now discussing whether Canada should also consider economic damage caused by governments, a clear reference to worsening relations with Washington, said the sources.

"Politically it's hard to spend billions of dollars on contracts with a country that's hurting you," said one of the sources, who asked to remain anonymous given the extreme sensitivity of the situation.

However, the sources emphasized that the discussions are at an early stage and Ottawa could eventually decide to drop the proposed language.

Canada - which is due to release the exact specifications for the jets next year - has not yet finished work on the clause referring to economic damage caused by a single firm.

U.S. President Donald Trump last month slapped tariffs on Canadian steel and aluminum, prompting Canada to announce its own retaliatory measures. Trump has also threatened tariffs on Canadian autos, which could badly hurt the economy.

Ottawa froze talks with Boeing about the fighter jet contest but after the company's trade challenge against Bombardier failed, Canadian officials made clear the firm would not be discriminated against if it chose to bid.

https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2018-06-21/exclusive-canada-could-make-it-harder-for-us-to-win-fighter-bid-sources

 

[Kirkhill]

"Canada has been trying unsuccessfully for almost a decade to buy replacements for its aging F-18 fighters, some of which are 40 years old. The former Conservative administration said in 2010 it would buy 65 F-35 jets but later scrapped the decision, triggering years of delays and reviews."

Yup. Absolutely. All the Conservatives' fault......