The Post-pandemic Canadian Armed Forces

[MilEME09]

I'd like to see a large growth in HADR capability:

A. Build a LPD/LSD here, foreign off-the-shelf design, to use as a hospital ship in these situations to treat coast communities.

Bonus points if it can make it into the great lakes. Actually that would be a major project if the channel locks were expanded to accommodate larger ships.

 

[OldSolduer]

Depends on who is governing at the time. I have zero faith - negative faith - if there is such a thing , in the Liberal Party of Canada. I think they will chop the budget and reduce numbers if possible. I've never seen such incompetent toadies in cabinet.
If the Conservatives have a majority government then some common sense might prevail.

 

[GR66]

Will this finally be enough incentive to cut the HQ bloat and put more manpower into the units?

 

[GAP]

If the Conservatives have a majority government then some common sense might prevail.

I wouldn't count on it.....once an election is over, the main job is getting reelected....... :tsktsk:

 

[blacktriangle]

Will this finally be enough incentive to cut the HQ bloat and put more manpower into the units?

You mean peoplepower, right? And no, probably not.

 

[CBH99]

I agree the recruiting base might widen somewhat , but does the system have the capability to access this, process a large intake and then train these folks. Seems to me that the system is strapped for manpower, both instructional and logistical, at present with our overseas commitments so finding competent recruit/basic level instructors may be an insurmountable task. A few may be available through a massive reserve call up. Not sure what facilities still exist to sp the influx, physical administrative or logistical system appear to have been civilianized or severely degraded in the past while. Also don't think a mass rush to arms will occur, this is not 1914 or 1939 contrary to the political speak making the rounds so Canadian spirit probably will not be a factor. Did we have a great increase after 9/11?

1.  Yes, we had a massive increase in people wanting to join after 9/11.  Training capacity was increased, somewhat.


2.  Finding instructors for BMQ or BMQ(L) shouldn't be hard. 

It's learning basic dress and deportment, basic drill, rank structure, first aid, etc etc.  Some units should run a BMQ on their own (reserve side) so summers can be used for courses that actually produce useful soldiers, rather than wasting everybody's time having a recruit sit around during the year only to come back at the end of summer still being non-deployable.

Teaching a BMQ or BMQ(L) isn't hard, and it shouldn't be hard to find instructors.  These aren't specialized courses requiring specialized training facilities.  It's the most basic s**t in the world.



I don't believe every single recruit needs to go through St. Jean, personally.  Streamline recruiting, and get a few regional BMQ courses going, etc.  Running BMQ, some unit level Driver courses (Multiple units can come together to run one, isn't the first time), etc.  Get people in, get people trained up, and let's get going - so that the specialized instructors can focus on getting people trade qualified.  :2c:

(Someone mentioned One Station Training, the way the US Army does it sometimes.  Get things moving, keeps people motivated because they join & instantly start making progress towards career/goals, and aren't sitting around being 'make work' projects.)

 

[MilEME09]

1.  Yes, we had a massive increase in people wanting to join after 9/11.  Training capacity was increased, somewhat.


2.  Finding instructors for BMQ or BMQ(L) shouldn't be hard. 

It's learning basic dress and deportment, basic drill, rank structure, first aid, etc etc.  Some units should run a BMQ on their own (reserve side) so summers can be used for courses that actually produce useful soldiers, rather than wasting everybody's time having a recruit sit around during the year only to come back at the end of summer still being non-deployable.

Teaching a BMQ or BMQ(L) isn't hard, and it shouldn't be hard to find instructors.  These aren't specialized courses requiring specialized training facilities.  It's the most basic s**t in the world.



I don't believe every single recruit needs to go through St. Jean, personally.  Streamline recruiting, and get a few regional BMQ courses going, etc.  Running BMQ, some unit level Driver courses (Multiple units can come together to run one, isn't the first time), etc.  Get people in, get people trained up, and let's get going - so that the specialized instructors can focus on getting people trade qualified.  :2c:

(Someone mentioned One Station Training, the way the US Army does it sometimes.  Get things moving, keeps people motivated because they join & instantly start making progress towards career/goals, and aren't sitting around being 'make work' projects.)

Where I am we run one sometimes two local weekend BMQ's in calgary during the training year to get people on their trades courses come summer, then run full time courses in the summer time. Drivers courses are a more difficult beast, as you need to be qualified as a in cab instructor to teach, or a driver examiner to do road tests, this is something some unit's lack from my experience.

 

[PuckChaser]

Teaching a BMQ or BMQ(L) isn't hard, and it shouldn't be hard to find instructors.  These aren't specialized courses requiring specialized training facilities.  It's the most basic s**t in the world.

Don't tell St. Jean that, they make you do a course to learn how to teach a BMQ. As opposed to the PLQ that is literally designed to teach you how to teach on a BMQ...

 

[MilEME09]

Don't tell St. Jean that, they make you do a course to learn how to teach a BMQ. As opposed to the PLQ that is literally designed to teach you how to teach on a BMQ...

Sounds like something that could just be an briefing for new instructors and take an afternoon. I can't imagine there is much to add in regards to teaching a BMQ of all things

 

[PuckChaser]

Sounds like something that could just be an briefing for new instructors and take an afternoon. I can't imagine there is much to add in regards to teaching a BMQ of all things

I'll double check with my buddy how long it was, but it wasn't an afternoon from how he described it.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I'll double check with my buddy how long it was, but it wasn't an afternoon from how he described it.

GMT-I is 2 weeks IIRC.

This thread is one perspective of where the CAF is going into the COVID pandemic.  While not 100% accurate it presents a fairly bleak look at the CAF, IMO. 

Opinion - Liberators of the Netherlands in 1945, today... - CBC

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Teaching a BMQ or BMQ(L) isn't hard, and it shouldn't be hard to find instructors.  These aren't specialized courses requiring specialized training facilities.  It's the most basic s**t in the world.

* edit - repeating something PC just said.  :Tin-Foil-Hat:

*the General Military Training - Instructor course has the basic aim of taking members from all branches/trades of the CAF and attempting to ensure that there is as much standardization in the delivery of the BMQ/BMOQ QS and TP to each candidate at CFLRS as possible.  A PPCLI MCpl, in theory, will deliver the training 'the same way to the same standard' as a AVN Tech MCpl will, etc.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Under the current direction we're pushing I could even see us recruiting women only or women first until we hit 20% women or even 51%.

Under current federal legislation?  I don't know if that is possible but...hey, if anyone is going to ignore stuff like that it might be the sitting government. 

 

[stellarpanther]

What cuts if any do people see happening in the CAF/DND?  A few of us were having a private chat on FB over the last few days and we were thinking about courses that could be cut.  PLQ was one that a couple people thought about for certain trades.  Like all courses, they're expensive when you think about transportation, meals, housing and everything else and for many trades, useless.  Take for example and HRA or FSA and some others.  They get promoted, do the job as a MCpl for up to two years and sometimes longer depending on availability or injury/illness and then go back and keep doing the same job they did prior to going on course.  Learning section attacks, giving O groups etc doesn't train us to be better supervisors in the OR.  The only think I can think is beneficial is learning to teach a lesson and that can probably be done at the unit level. There are probably many other courses as well.

 

[blacktriangle]

What cuts if any do people see happening in the CAF/DND?  A few of us were having a private chat on FB over the last few days and we were thinking about courses that could be cut.  PLQ was one that a couple people thought about for certain trades.  Like all courses, they're expensive when you think about transportation, meals, housing and everything else and for many trades, useless.  Take for example and HRA or FSA and some others.  They get promoted, do the job as a MCpl for up to two years and sometimes longer depending on availability or injury/illness and then go back and keep doing the same job they did prior to going on course.  Learning section attacks, giving O groups etc doesn't train us to be better supervisors in the OR.  The only think I can think is beneficial is learning to teach a lesson and that can probably be done at the unit level. There are probably many other courses as well.

Maybe they will just phase out a lot of the HRA and FSA, and supplement more and more with civilians making less money.

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=stellarpanther] Learning section attacks, giving O groups etc doesn't train us to be better supervisors in the OR.  The only think I can think is beneficial is learning to teach a lesson and that can probably be done at the unit level. There are probably many other courses as well.
[/quote]

1. You're still in the military.
2. If you're deployed and get attacked and there isn't security/combat arms around then your subordinates are going to look to you for leadership.

 

[stellarpanther]

Maybe they will just phase out a lot of the HRA and FSA, and supplement more and more with civilians making less money.

To be honest, that wouldn't be a bad thing.  IMO, a big problem is even with the split there are so many functions we need to learn and it can take a while.  As soon as we start getting comfortable with it, it's time for a posting to another unit or base who does it different. 

 

[stellarpanther]

1. You're still in the military.
2. If you're deployed and get attacked and there isn't security/combat arms around then your subordinates are going to look to you for leadership.

I know I'm still in the military but that doesn't mean I can't have opinions and it doesn't mean that just because something has been done a certain way for ages, that it's the right way to be doing things. 
I haven't deployed but I've heard several people including many Sr NCO's who have deployed make this comment that PLQ needs to be revamped to be realistic to what many trades will do  Does anyone really picture an image tech getting orders and then giving an O group and leading a section attack. I've had friends who've been to Afghanistan and Iraq and they all say that when the alarm goes, they all run to the designated shelter.  I don't picture a bunch or HRA's or FSA's sitting around a base by themselves. 

 

[blacktriangle]

To be honest, that wouldn't be a bad thing.  IMO, a big problem is even with the split there are so many functions we need to learn and it can take a while.  As soon as we start getting comfortable with it, it's time for a posting to another unit or base who does it different.

Absolutely, and it happens elsewhere in the CAF as well. But ultimately, I think these sort of changes will be driven by cost. The potential for increased effectiveness will just be a byproduct. It's also by no means guaranteed to work out better. An endless rotation of cheaper contract workers could be what you get stuck with. If you look at some other trades, I think cost will be reason that they stay military. No one wants to pay a police constable 100k if they can pay a Cpl MP 75K. Same goes with some of the more technical trades.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I know I'm still in the military but that doesn't mean I can't have opinions and it doesn't mean that just because something has been done a certain way for ages, that it's the right way to be doing things. 
I haven't deployed but I've heard several people including many Sr NCO's who have deployed make this comment that PLQ needs to be revamped to be realistic to what many trades will do  Does anyone really picture an image tech getting orders and then giving an O group and leading a section attack. I've had friends who've been to Afghanistan and Iraq and they all say that when the alarm goes, they all run to the designated shelter.  I don't picture a bunch or HRA's or FSA's sitting around a base by themselves. 

Right. And just because something has been done for ages doesn't mean it needs to be changed either.

Plq could use some changes I'm sure. It still needs to have some raised voices and raised adrenaline so when things get scary, like someone shooting rockets at you, leaders don't curl up in a ball and wet themselves. Not saying that sarcastically either. From what I recall clerks aren't hard assessed on section attacks but they're exposed to it.

Being able to fight is a common task for the military. Section attacks teach muscle for fire and movement for 8 directions.
No, a clerk sergeant probably won't be taking a section of clerks and attacking bad guys but they may have to take some privates and withdraw while getting shot at. Plq will give the leader some exposure controlling people moving around with guns.

I think a lot of soldiers are hoping we keep doing this work from home, part time hours thing. Not going to work long term.