The Military Wedding Superthread- merged

[Neill McKay]

I've worn a sword on parade, is it usual to wear a ceremonial sword as an officer in this situation

I think swords are generally not worn inside a church, so if that's the venue for your wedding it may influence your decision.  The thing to do in that case might be to leave it in the vestibule and put it on on the way out.

 

[Gunner98]

A sword arch upon exit from the chapel by a 'guard of honor' composed of uniformed friends is a custom and is a memorable touch.  See page 6-1-19 of drill and ceremonial manual.

Page 2A-2 of dress manual states that No.1 or No. 1A are appropriate for wear at formal military weddings. 

Page 3-7-9, para. 23. Officers, chief petty officers first class (CPO1) and chief warrant officers wear swords or pistols when so ordered. Non-commissioned members other than CPO1s and chief warrant officers may also be ordered to wear swords or pistols when unit custom so dictates.

Grooms don't usually wear a sword during the wedding ceremony as it is too awkward.

 

[Journeyman]

Grooms don't usually wear a sword during the wedding ceremony as it is too awkward.

And in hindsight, you may just beat yourself up for not having used it when you had the chance  ;D

 

[Strike]

WRT the swords, don't know the answer.  I was told, however, that it is bad luck for the wedding party to wear mess kit during the ceremony itself and that mess kit should be reserved for the pictures and reception.

 

[Otis]

In my experience, I would suggest bow tie all day (therefore foregoing the need to keep track of headdress all day long) instead of the issued tie. It is a ceremonial occasion and therefore #2 order of dress would be appropriate (though traditionalists will argue that the #2 order should not be worn at all before 1800hrs, but it's your wedding, do what you please)

 

[dapaterson]

but it's your wife's wedding, do what you please are told)

Fixed that for you...

 

[Neill McKay]

A sword arch upon exit from the chapel by a 'guard of honor' composed of uniformed friends is a custom and is a memorable touch.

I've had the privilege of participating in this and can say that it makes for a very striking display.

traditionalists will argue that the #2 order should not be worn at all before 1800hrs, but it's your wedding, do what you please

I'm one of those traditionalists who maintains that mess kit is the equivalent of black tie and it's a faux pas to wear it before 1800.  But given that very odd tuxedo-influenced garments are routinely worn at day-time weddings these days I can't say that it would be terribly strange to see the same done with mess kit.

It's ultimately up to the couple; this is one of the few days in their lives that they will have almost complete control over!

 

[Otis]

My buddy wore high-collar whites for his wedding, while I wore Mess Kit as the best man. The wedding was in the afternnon on a farm!

The way we looked at it ... it made the Bride happy, we all looked nice, and in 20 years - looking at the wedding photos - who's going to remember what time tha damn wedding was anyway?

 

[Trinity]

I just had my (Cough)... wife's wedding I mean in May in Borden and I wore Mess Dress.  It looks excellent with the red doeskin. 

 

[Pusser]

Normal etiquette dictates that mess kit is evening wear and should not be worn before 1800.  Despite most mess kits having a black tie, it is actually the equivalent of the civilian "white tie" order of formal dress, which also includes tails.  A tuxedo (with its black tie), by the way, is considered semi-formal.  We no longer use mess "undress," which would be the military equivalent to a tuxedo.

Strictly speaking, a daytime wedding ceremony should be conducted in No 1 (ie. uniform shirt, standard tie, medals and sword) or 1A (same as above without sword).  An alternative would be if you are a member of a regiment that has a regimental uniform (eg. a red-coated infantry regiment).

There is no strict taboo against wearing swords in church.  People have been doing it for centuries.  You may wish to check with the church in question though as they may have a local policy.  I wore a sword (as did my ushers) for my wedding and it looked great!  You just have to be careful when moving around, especially if there is any kneeling involved.  My wedding was in a Catholic basilica, with a full mass and lots of stone steps.  The arch of swords (edges up) is a nice touch and makes for great pictures.

It is OK to wear mess kit for the reception, if it takes place after 1800, but their is no requirement to do so.  I have been to weddings where people changed into mess kits and others where they didn't.  As a personal recommendation though, if you don't have or don't want to buy a proper mess kit, I wouldn't bother changing into a white shirt and bow tie and swapping medals for ribbons (medals are not worn with interim mess kit - miniatures are worn with proper mess kit).  If you want to wear a mess kit at your wedding, spend the bucks and get a proper one.  It looks better and you'll be glad you did when you see the pictures later.  If you're worried about the cost, just consider what your bride will spend on her dress.  Shouldn't you be allowed to do the same in this modern world of equality of the sexes?  Did I just say that!?

For my wedding, my bride bought a dress and I bought a sword (I already had the uniforms).

Whatever you do, DO NOT wear a sword with mess kit (yes, I've seen it done and it is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG).  If you're going to cut the cake with your sword (which is really cool) and you're wearing mess kit at the time, just have the sword placed on the table beforehand.  Don't wear it.  On another note, make sure you clean off the sword both before and after cutting the cake.  The icing will do a number on the blade finish.

Congratulations and good luck.

 

[Rheostatic]

Great post, thanks for this.

 

[Monsoon]

Normal etiquette dictates that mess kit is evening wear and should not be worn before 1800.  Despite most mess kits having a black tie, it is actually the equivalent of the civilian "white tie" order of formal dress, which also includes tails.  A tuxedo (with its black tie), by the way, is considered semi-formal.  We no longer use mess "undress," which would be the military equivalent to a tuxedo.

As it was explained to me (in a naval context - I can't speak to dress/undress in the army), the dress is white tie equivalent when worn with the white vest. When worn with a black vest or cummerbund, it's black tie (and, hence, "undress").

 

[gcclarke]

As it was explained to me (in a naval context - I can't speak to dress/undress in the army), the dress is white tie equivalent when worn with the white vest. When worn with a black vest or cummerbund, it's black tie (and, hence, "undress").

And then of course the Navy's also got the concept of the High Collared Whites to mess things up even more. Were the OP a Naval officer, I'd suggest going with that for the daytime / ceremony, and switching to the regular mess kit for the reception. But alas, it's never that simple.

 

[eurowing]

>  For those who wore Mess Dress, I bet you looked rather dashing!  Those who wore kitchen wares...  can I see the pictures?  I am trying to figure out how the ladies could cover-up  ;D 

 

[Pusser]

As it was explained to me (in a naval context - I can't speak to dress/undress in the army), the dress is white tie equivalent when worn with the white vest. When worn with a black vest or cummerbund, it's black tie (and, hence, "undress").

Right you are.  Another difference is that "undress" also had plain trousers (without gold stripes or "lighting rods").  Mess Undress comes from an era when most naval officers lived onboard and wore it to dinner in the Wardroom every night.  This is obviously no longer the case and thus the reason that Mess Undress is no longer used.

 

[Monsoon]

Right you are.  Another difference is that "undress" also had plain trousers (without gold stripes or "lighting rods").  Mess Undress comes from an era when most naval officers lived onboard and wore it to dinner in the Wardroom every night.  This is obviously no longer the case and thus the reason that Mess Undress is no longer used.

Meaning that we just adopted the "lightning rod" pants (rather than "tuxedo" pants) for our black tie equivalent, as I understand it. Makes us look a bit strange when mess dining with the RN, who really only wear the mess "dress" at dinners where a member of the royal family is present.

 

[Pusser]

It's my understanding that the RN and RAN (RNZN as well?) have dropped the lightning rods altogether for everyone except Flag Officers.

 

[one_speed]

Normal etiquette dictates that mess kit is evening wear and should not be worn before 1800.  Despite most mess kits having a black tie, it is actually the equivalent of the civilian "white tie" order of formal dress, which also includes tails.  A tuxedo (with its black tie), by the way, is considered semi-formal.  We no longer use mess "undress," which would be the military equivalent to a tuxedo.

Strictly speaking, a daytime wedding ceremony should be conducted in No 1 (ie. uniform shirt, standard tie, medals and sword) or 1A (same as above without sword).  An alternative would be if you are a member of a regiment that has a regimental uniform (eg. a red-coated infantry regiment).

There is no strict taboo against wearing swords in church.  People have been doing it for centuries.  You may wish to check with the church in question though as they may have a local policy.  I wore a sword (as did my ushers) for my wedding and it looked great!  You just have to be careful when moving around, especially if there is any kneeling involved.  My wedding was in a Catholic basilica, with a full mass and lots of stone steps.  The arch of swords (edges up) is a nice touch and makes for great pictures.

It is OK to wear mess kit for the reception, if it takes place after 1800, but their is no requirement to do so.  I have been to weddings where people changed into mess kits and others where they didn't.  As a personal recommendation though, if you don't have or don't want to buy a proper mess kit, I wouldn't bother changing into a white shirt and bow tie and swapping medals for ribbons (medals are not worn with interim mess kit - miniatures are worn with proper mess kit).  If you want to wear a mess kit at your wedding, spend the bucks and get a proper one.  It looks better and you'll be glad you did when you see the pictures later.  If you're worried about the cost, just consider what your bride will spend on her dress.  Shouldn't you be allowed to do the same in this modern world of equality of the sexes?  Did I just say that!?

For my wedding, my bride bought a dress and I bought a sword (I already had the uniforms).

Whatever you do, DO NOT wear a sword with mess kit (yes, I've seen it done and it is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG).  If you're going to cut the cake with your sword (which is really cool) and you're wearing mess kit at the time, just have the sword placed on the table beforehand.  Don't wear it.  On another note, make sure you clean off the sword both before and after cutting the cake.  The icing will do a number on the blade finish.

Congratulations and good luck.

Hey, thanks to all that replied very helpful comments..

My plans at present are to wear my DEU  (Army) with Tux shirt and Bow tiefor the Wedding.

My promotion is coming through soon (to Captain) so I'll wait to get a new uniform for nice clean tailoring.  Mess kit is still an option for dinner and reception but it'll be greens for the ceremony and pictures.  I'm holding out as an LT, but once the promotion does pass I would really like to get my Mess kit  together.

Sword will also be present for the ceremony and pictures.

I'm an NO and am aware of the protocols with us Medical types and swords.

We are planning a sword arch on exiting the church with several of my friends attending (1 LCol, 3 Maj, and 1 Capt) as well as our Piper of course.    I have heard  different numbers of officers are required to do a proper arch (depending on the source of course).  Any suggestions ?



Ian

 

[30 for 30]

So you are in DEU, sword, and bow tie for the ceremony? Sounds odd. Best option would be the normal necktie for this dress.

 

[one_speed]

You're right, I was thinking about thsi last night after posting.  This would constitute mess kit wouldn't it ? 

I'll have to wait and see, but of course if I go with the sword I'd be in DEU with straight tie and regular shirt...