The Khadr Thread

[OldSolduer]

I refuse to lie in bed at night cowering from some fictitious 'hordes' of terrorists. There are no boatloads of al-Qaeda disgorging on the beaches of Nova Scotia; the threat you're trying to describe doesn't exist. We do not face en existential threat from terrorists. Most are too stupid to accomplish anything but a premature violent death. Even those who are proficient can't actually harm our country in a lasting way.

You are right - there are no boatloads of bad guys waiting to do jihad on us.

BUT - there are some already here who want Sharia Law....and all the while condone honour killings and support the subjugation of women. The enemy is within, encouraged and supported by the enemy outside our borders.

We can stay in this forum and argue all day long....or longer...about the rule of law, the moral high ground etc. OR we can tell our so called elected representatives to damn well get off the fence and inform people like the Khadr clan (those that immigrated here), the Westboro Baptists and any other terrorist group  that they ARE NOT WELCOME and will be packed up and shipped out ASP. As for born Canadians who mean to do us  harm - prosecute to the fullest extent of the law. Its been done already.

 

[jollyjacktar]

And yet we still come out soiled and smelling like s***.

I refuse to lie in bed at night cowering from some fictitious 'hordes' of terrorists. There are no boatloads of al-Qaeda disgorging on the beaches of Nova Scotia; the threat you're trying to describe doesn't exist. We do not face en existential threat from terrorists. Most are too stupid to accomplish anything but a premature violent death. Even those who are proficient can't actually harm our country in a lasting way.

I don't cower, nor do I envision "fictitious 'hordes' of terrorists" creeping up my stairs at night either.  If you wish to take the high moral stance in life and not risk getting some dirt on your shiny white suit, that's up to you and good luck to you as well. 

When my Dad was a little boy he emigrated here from England just after WW1 to a small mining town.  His Mum sent him to school in a nice pretty velvet short pants suit just like in England.  At the end of the day, he returned home bawling his eyes out.  His suit in ruins, blood all over his face and his nose neatly re-arranged for him.  His Dad looked at him and said "Well, Son looks like you'll have to learn how to fight".  He did, and engaged with them at their level and pretty soon was left alone.

That's what I am talking about.  You want to sit there with your Marquois of Queensbury rules in a pub fight, fine.  But don't be surprised when some Yob kicks you in the nuts and glasses your face.  Wring your hands all you want over poor Omar, other offenders  you deal with professionally and the process of decision making that was used to take Al-Awlaki out.  I'll not join you and the others in the pity party.  :boke:

 

[CountDC]

Where will he serve his time?  Most likely at home in no time with a large compensation from our tax dollars.  Won't take long for some bleeding hearts to argue that he has already done his time and should be released in the cause of justice. They will also argue that our government didn't do it's job on his behalf and should pay him millions which the courts will agree with.

Will he go back there to fight again? No, he will sit in Canada and give them a donation out of the interest he makes off his compensation, be worshipped by the extremist here and be a poster child for recruiting. Do I believe he has been rehab?  Not a chance.  He was so easily influenced in to doing his actions then I am sure sitting where he was has been a real influence too.

As for his terrorist supporting family - they should be deported but of course nothing will be done and in no time he will be back in the fold with them.

Yes he will be watched closely but there is always some places where you can get privacy and meet with others such as private gatherings at religious facilities. Not easy places for CSIS to get into when there is a restricted access list to the room.

Do I buy any of the sympathy crap - no.

 

[krustyrl]

Will he go back there to fight again? No, he will sit in Canada and give them a donation out of the interest he makes off his compensation, be worshipped by the extremist here and be a poster child for recruiting. Do I believe he has been rehab?  Not a chance.  He was so easily influenced in to doing his actions then I am sure sitting where he was has been a real influence too.

Excellent point CountDC...'cause you KNOW there will be some sort book or "made for TV " deal here despite Khadr not able to make money on it.  Some station like Fox or ABC or whatever will make a movie.

 

[FlyingDutchman]

I worry about how a Fox movie will handle it.

EDIT: I have been unimpressed with most of Fox's recent outings.

 

[aesop081]

I worry about how a Fox movie will slant it.

I think it is more realistic that he will sue the GoC.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I don't agree that we came out of WWII smelling like anything unpleasant.  Neither a person nor a nation is irrevocably and irredeemably stained by misdeeds, otherwise there could only be decline, never improvement.  Clearly most people don't end their lives scorned by all due to the lifetime sum of their wrongdoings; clearly nations have not all been sliding downhill since they were created as pure as the falling snow.

The notion that we can defend ourselves within the limit of the law carries the implied assumption that the law might change to erode as many of our freedoms as necessary in the pursuit of security, and that we should give up whatever we must to avoid crossing some arbitrary boundary - which is not a one-way trip in any event.  That is intolerable; hence, there must be a llimit beyond which we can secure our freedoms only by temporarily transgressing some of the limits we have set for ourselves.

[Add: for example, I am entirely dissatisfied with the security measures deemed necessary in airports, and I think it reasonable to restore those measures to status quo ante 2001; let the cost of whatever is necessary to allow that reversion to safely occur be borne by those who would make those measures necessary.]

 

[GAP]

In Omar Khadr’s legal saga, a new chapter begins
paul koring  Globe and Mail Wednesday, Oct. 26, 2011
Article Link

Omar Khadr, Canada’s only convicted war criminal – a confessed murderer, spy and terrorist – is headed home soon. But just how soon remains unclear. Even murkier is when he will be freed.

Mr. Khadr is eligible for repatriation any time after Monday, to serve the rest of his sentence in a Canadian prison. That could be years or as little as a few months, depending on whether he can successfully challenge the Guantanamo war crimes conviction in Canadian courts.

Mr. Khadr pleaded guilty to murder, spying and supporting terrorism as part of a plea bargain that resulted in him being sentenced to eight years, of which only the first year was to be served at Guantanamo.

After spending most of his 25 years abroad, first as a child in Pakistan as the son of a leading al-Qaeda family, followed by a brief summer learning bomb-making with Islamic jihadists in Afghanistan and nine years in Guantanamo, the Toronto-born Mr. Khadr will be eligible on Halloween to seek repatriation to Canada.

But it could take months or longer to hammer out his return, especially if Ottawa demands that he drop any further legal action as a condition of repatriation. Until then, Mr. Khadr remains one of only two convicted terrorists in a separate prison block in Guantanamo.

This week, huddled with his lawyers, Mr. Khadr may be examining his options.

He could agree to seek repatriation quietly, to serve his remaining time and try to re-enter Canadian society as unobtrusively as possible in an attempt to salvage something approaching normality for the remaining two-thirds of his life. That would require the Harper government to approve and quickly facilitate his return.

In return, lawyers familiar with his case believe Mr. Khadr would need to agree to abandon any further constitutional challenges.

But some lawyers believe Mr. Khadr could be out in less than a year if he takes his case again to the Canadian courts. They believe Mr. Khadr could challenge the U.S. war crimes conviction and the sentence, claiming both were illegal under international law. In Canada, the Supreme Court has already ruled that the government failed to properly protect Mr. Khadr’s rights.
More on link

 

[The Bread Guy]

The Supreme Court of Canada will not hear the extradition case of Abdullah Khadr, shutting the door on American efforts to prosecute the man in a terrorism case.

The high court has dismissed the federal government's leave-to-appeal application in the case of Khadr, the older brother of Omar Khadr, the last Western detainee to be held at Guantanamo Bay.

The federal government, acting on behalf of the Americans, was appealing rulings by lower courts that prevented Abdullah Khadr from being extradited to the United States.

Ottawa had argued it was wrong to prevent an "admitted" terrorist from facing trial in the U.S.

Last year, the Ontario Superior Court decided there were sufficient grounds to send Khadr to the U.S. based on self-incriminating statements he'd given the RCMP.

However, the court ruled the U.S. had violated fundamental justice with its involvement in Khadr's "shocking" mistreatment during 14-months' detention in Pakistan, a decision that was upheld by the Ontario Court of Appeal ....

The Canadian Press, 3 Nov 11

 

[jollyjacktar]

Shame that.  It would have got one of them out of the country at least. 

 

[The Bread Guy]

Omar Khadr, the first Canadian convicted of murder, spying, and terrorism and held at Guantanamo Bay, needs another first before he can go home to serve out his sentence in a Canadian prison. Canada must first be certified as a fit place to send a convicted terrorist, a nation not likely to permit him to attack the United States, and one that has control of its prisons. That certification must be delivered to Congress signed by U.S. Defence Secretary Leon Panetta with “the concurrence of” U.S. State Secretary Hillary Clinton. It’s new, but hardly trivial. It’s a part of the 2011 National Defence Authorization Act, the annual funding legislation for the entire U.S. military that, among other things, outlaws using U.S. taxpayer funds to airlift a Guantanamo detainee to the United States ....

Globe & Mail, 21 Nov 11

 

[Pusser]

Now the question is, do we get insulted if the Americans do not find us worthy, or chuckle softly and reflect on the bullet we dodge?

 

[jasonf6]

Now the question is, do we get insulted if the Americans do not find us worthy, or chuckle softly and reflect on the bullet we dodge?

I'd happily waive the insult fee in order to dodge that bullet.

 

[Danjanou]

Now the question is, do we get insulted if the Americans do not find us worthy, or chuckle softly and reflect on the bullet we dodge?

The outrage over this should it happen by the NDP and the CBC etc alone will provide days if not weeks of entertainment.  8)

 

[GAP]

Whitewashing Omar Khadr
Confessed terrorist will soon walk free in Canada
By Ezra Levant, QMI Agency
Article Link

In a revealing new book, The Enemy Within, the Sun's Ezra Levant brings Omar Khadr's story back into the public eye. Having completed his U.S. sentence in October 2011, Omar Khadr could return to Canada at any time. He may well be released, thanks to a lenient system that will likely credit him for the time he has served awaiting trial in Guantanamo Bay. With Parliament back in session, Levant brings his razor-sharp perspective to bear on a story that is vital to our notions of citizenship and justice, and to our national security.

---

So, what can we expect to happen with Omar Khadr when he inevitably returns to Canada?

Unfortunately, it's not hard to guess. When Maher Arar came back to Canada after he was released from a prison in Syria, he was hailed as a hero and celebrity. Every anti-war, anti-Western activist with an axe to grind--which includes a large swath of Canada's mainstream media--turned his homecoming into a triumph. If only they treated our wounded soldiers returning from Afghanistan so warmly.

If Maher Arar became a minor celebrity after his wrangle with the Syrian security system, with a secondary role played by Washington and Ottawa, it's a virtual lock that Omar Khadr--the leading man in a supposed morality play pitting the Bush administration, perennial bugbear of the left, and its Guantanamo "gulag" against a purportedly naive and pitiable "child soldier" from Canada--is set to become nothing less than a superstar.

Unlike Arar, who enjoyed only a fraction of the sympathy and media coverage, Khadr will be coming home to the built-in fan club that he's amassed since his capture. Arlette Zinck, the professor at Edmonton's King's University College who struck up a tender pen pal relationship with Khadr -- "Whenever you are lonesome, remember you have many friends who keep you in their prayers. Each morning at 9 o'clock, I include you in mine," she wrote to him in Guantanamo, referring to Khadr as "my dear student"--has led the charge in turning her campus into a factory for Khadr groupies.


Zinck actually testified in Khadr's defence, calling him a "considerate young man ... thoughtful and generous in spirit" in a sentencing hearing for a murder he himself confessed he took pleasure in reminiscing about (how considerate). In 2008, her school hosted a talk by Dennis Edney, one of Khadr's lawyers, to give a speech about how "a young Muslim man has been branded a terrorist without trial" and the failures of the Canadian government in supporting Khadr's case.
More on link

 

[OldSolduer]

Then this Zinck character can house him , feed him, clothe him, educate him and all that.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Then this Zinck character can house him , feed him, clothe him, educate him and all that.

:goodpost:

 

[Good2Golf]

So sad that he will never come close to enjoying the carefree, fun times as a young pre-teen.  The morally decrepit system has robbed him of the joy he once knew.  He looked so happy back then...poor Omar.  :'(

 

[The Bread Guy]

.... from an unnamed (U.S.?) official:

A "frustrated" Omar Khadr could be back in Canada by the end of May, with both Ottawa and Washington poised to approve his transfer from Guantanamo Bay, where the convicted war criminal has been held for almost a decade, The Canadian Press has learned.

A source familiar with the file said U.S. Secretary of Defence Leon Panetta was expected to sign off on the transfer within a week.

"It's on his desk, it's ready," the source said Wednesday. "The U.S. has no concerns about (Khadr)."

Khadr has been caught up in a bureaucratic "Catch-22" since becoming eligible to leave the American prison on Cuba last October under terms of a plea agreement struck a year earlier.

The Toronto-born Khadr, 25, pleaded guilty before a much maligned U.S. military commission to five war crimes he committed as a 15-year-old in Afghanistan in July 2002.

In exchange, the Canadian citizen was given an eight-year sentence, with one year to be served in Guantanamo Bay and the remainder in Canada.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government has been in no hurry to approve the transfer request, which Khadr's lawyers submitted to both governments a year ago.

Instead, the source said, Ottawa has been scrutinizing the application far more closely than required, looking at issues such as his parole eligibility, which would essentially be almost immediate.

"I think they have stalled the proceedings — the U.S. would have sent him home a lot earlier if things had been worked out in Canada," the source said ....

The Canadian Press, 28 Mar 12

 

[The Bread Guy]

The Canadian government has received a formal request for the transfer of convicted war criminal Omar Khadr from Guantanamo Bay to Canada, Ottawa confirmed Wednesday.

A spokeswoman for Public Safety Minister Vic Toews said Ottawa is now considering the request.

"The government of Canada has just received a completed application for the transfer of prisoner Omar Ahmed Khadr," spokeswoman Julie Carmichael said.

"A decision will be made on this file in accordance with Canadian law."

(....)

According to a source familiar with the application, the Americans have been pressing Canada to accept the Toronto-born Khadr. Sources have said the delay has complicated commission proceedings against other Guantanamo inmates because it has made them reluctant to strike their own plea deals.

"The United States basically asked Canada for a diplomatic favour and Canada previously agreed to look at a request of this nature favourably," one source said.

"The U.S. needs to get rid of this guy for their own reasons."

According to the source, the Americans are "bending over backwards" to ensure Khadr's exit from Guantanamo Bay and will have to "bend their way around a number of their own rules" to make that happen.

At the same time, the source suggested, Toews has little choice but to accept Khadr's return, which would happen at U.S. expense.

Should Khadr remain in Guantanamo for his full sentence, he would be able to return to Canada and walk the streets without any restrictions, the source said ....

The Canadian Press, 18 Apr 12