The Khadr Thread
- Thread starter The_Falcon
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Baffin Island?
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Only in North America does something like this even see the light of day :rage: Khadr as well as any other convicted felon gave up rights when they went to prison. As far as mistreatment???? in my opinion perhaps if prisons were less enjoyable(ie televisions, university educations, beds, blah blah blah) people who do break the laws of the land will spend thier free time upon release doing whatever it takes to NEVER go back to those places again!!! The majority of society has to find a measure of success on thier own and free rides ( like a 10 m settlement) are few and far between.
The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms( although it is a beautiful thing) is a law that like all others it seems can be twisted to say whatever its reader wishes it to which like all law is its fundamental flaw!!!
Maybe its just me
RTG
(screw Khadr....not one penny of taxpayers money, you broke the law, suffer the consequences)
step off soapbox now ;D
The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms( although it is a beautiful thing) is a law that like all others it seems can be twisted to say whatever its reader wishes it to which like all law is its fundamental flaw!!!
Maybe its just me
RTG
(screw Khadr....not one penny of taxpayers money, you broke the law, suffer the consequences)
step off soapbox now ;D
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Well. If the Khadr family wants to try this game, then I think it only fair that the family of the Medic that he "allegedly" killed also sue them (the Khadr family) for the same amount due to loss of income, trauma, loss of quality of life, etc.
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George Wallace said:
On the topic of fairness, IF he does get some kind of settlement, he should also have to pay the American Gov't for his past 8 years of tropical paradise accommodations, the transportations costs of flying from Bagram to Gitmo, the medical bill for the US army not letting him die (which should be the same bill someone would have to pay at a US hospital assuming they have no insurance plan), meals, etc... Also, pony up for the time his father spent in Toronto recovering (taking advantage of canadian healthcare) back in 1992.
Actually, lets save a LOT of time, hassle, and embarrassment here; take the 10M he wants, give half to the medic's family, half to Project Hero, and while those cheques are being drawn up, signed, and delivered, I'll be on my way back from the landfill, cord in hand. Do you have a good, hole-free bucket handy? ;D
Edited for grammar
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The $10m and apology is just a starting point; we're going to make him a Senator.
On a serious note, I believe all of this stems from the decision to add sleep deprivation to the "official" list of torture, because as soon as something gets the T word attached to it, it's golden.
The population doesn't see any different degrees of torture; it's almost like someone is at a Sandals resort or they are being tortured. Having been sleep deprived for weeks on end I can certainly admit that it sucked (as can any new parent for that matter), but it's hardly in the same ballpark as having your teeth filed off or being raped by a guy with AIDS.
Those are the sorts of things that should be getting someone a $10m settlement, not being asked difficult questions after sleep deprivation.
Maybe we need to invent new words to differentiate different levels of torture the way Greeks have different words for love and Eskimos have different words for snow, because only having the T word is about to cost every Canadiian 30 cents.
On a serious note, I believe all of this stems from the decision to add sleep deprivation to the "official" list of torture, because as soon as something gets the T word attached to it, it's golden.
The population doesn't see any different degrees of torture; it's almost like someone is at a Sandals resort or they are being tortured. Having been sleep deprived for weeks on end I can certainly admit that it sucked (as can any new parent for that matter), but it's hardly in the same ballpark as having your teeth filed off or being raped by a guy with AIDS.
Those are the sorts of things that should be getting someone a $10m settlement, not being asked difficult questions after sleep deprivation.
Maybe we need to invent new words to differentiate different levels of torture the way Greeks have different words for love and Eskimos have different words for snow, because only having the T word is about to cost every Canadiian 30 cents.
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There will be no more talk of 'back alley justice' here. No cords, no shots, no holes, etc.
Milnet.ca Staff
Milnet.ca Staff
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Petamocto said:
I have been asking everytime someone starts talking about torture to:"Define torture".
Being uncomfortable does not equates to being tortured in my books. The CF has removed some training methods that were contrary to Human rights, over the years, yet all of us will go through some discomfort while training. Does that means the CF tortures us?
Sleep deprivation, long marches, sleeping uncomfortably, bad food, having to stand up for long period of times, being yelled at, being lectured to death and have to drink what some people call "coffee" are not tortures. (Feel free to add to this list
) Hell, in the right context they can even be fun.When I think about torture things that come to mind are mostly physical in nature: Acid, pulling out teeth/fingernails, cutting off body parts, sexual assault, SEVERE beating, hooking you up to a car battery.
To me mild/medium (and some severe) discomfort does not equate torture.
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recceguy said:
Preytell in your exalted wisdom, how you would like the Members to express their, DISCUST, OBJECTION, RAGE and INJUSTICE of this claim.
Not withstanding the fact that there are proponents who are advocating that it would Bankrupt the Country to properly take care of our Wounded Veterans and Families of our KIA.
Your suggestions as usual will be greatly appreciated.
Gunnar
Army.ca Veteran
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Don't confuse his wisdom with his authority.
It is understood that serving members would feel disgust etc., which is adequately demonstrated by writing such things as "This person is a waste of perfectly breathable air" and words to that effect. However, as this site is read by MORE than military personnel, people who might not understand the context and feelings presented, thereby using such inflammatory comments as an occasion to make all members of the CF look bad to the press and/or the Canadian public, we follow guidelines.
That being said, this thread will follow the guidelines the moderator has laid out.
It is understood that serving members would feel disgust etc., which is adequately demonstrated by writing such things as "This person is a waste of perfectly breathable air" and words to that effect. However, as this site is read by MORE than military personnel, people who might not understand the context and feelings presented, thereby using such inflammatory comments as an occasion to make all members of the CF look bad to the press and/or the Canadian public, we follow guidelines.
That being said, this thread will follow the guidelines the moderator has laid out.
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FastEddy said:
As usual, your grasp of the situation remains at a self centered, primary school level.
You've seen these types of responses here before, including your own IIRC.
You've also seen and read the Site policy as being zero tolerance to these comments.
The Staff can only assume that your short\ long term memory is in question;
You're incapacitated to reasonable thought by drugs or alcohol; or,
You're once more trolling and flaunting the Guidelines.
If you wish to escalate this and make anything you say, following this, official and open to sanction, fill your boots.
Rest assured your past history will be factored into any new decision by the Staff.
Now, back on topic.
Milnet.ca Staff
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If one feels it's necessary:FastEddy said:
1) type something like, "I am disgusted at this suggestion, and I object with rage at its injustice."
2) Proofread it to ensure it says what you think it does,
3) Hit <spell check> to avoid terms like "discust" [sic],
4) If you want, see what it looks like when posted because of possible format/size changes,
5) and then move on.
For bonus points, however, one could also explain your opinions using facts, experiences....hell, tree-hugging societal norms. This gives a post what we call "value," and makes it stand out from a "rant."
Just making the effort will help some posters appear not to be mouth-breathing knuckle-draggers. *
Glad I could help answer the question posted.
* For others, of course, there is only the wisdom of Max Ehrmann's Desiderata:
Go placidly amid the noise and the haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.
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Gunnar said:
What !, are you Bucking for membership in that Group or just Apple Polishing.
I would presume that you are just unaware of the number of Threads and Subjects that have run rampet in that Vein to their conclusion, which might have had the consequences as you have suggested.
If the Media can find anything that is posted here to Mass Discedit the CAF's Image,like "A wounded Vet is Pissed off with the Government the way he is treated, but can dish out 10 mil to that scum bag"then I'd say we didn't have any Image in the first place.
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While we're at it maybe we should give some money to each of the black bloc protesters we billy-clubbed in Toronto the other weekend. Also, has enough been done to pay back the families of EVERY person we might've harmed in the 2 world wars? Hell, we should just start a free cash program for anyone and everyone who's ever made a stupid choice in life and had to do suffer any sort of negative conseguences!!! We should take care of all the OTHER murderers too, since they will no longer be getting pensions. 
Court ruling may force feds to bring Omar Khadr back from Guantanamo:
OTTAWA — The federal government has been given a seven-day deadline to remedy violations of Omar Khadr's constitutional rights by the Federal Court.
Khadr's lawyer Nathan Whitling said Monday's ruling is tantamount to an instruction that Khadr be repatriated from Guantanamo Bay, the U.S. detention camp in Cuba where the young Canadian-born man has been held since 2002.
Judge Russel Zinn ruled that Khadr "is entitled to procedural fairness and natural justice in Canada's process of determining a remedy" for a breach of his constitutional rights that was found by the Supreme Court of Canada earlier this year.
The Supreme Court found officials from the Canadian Security Intelligence Service and the foreign intelligence division of Foreign Affairs Department violated the principles of fundamental justice when they questioned Khadr while knowing he had been subjected to a sleep deprivation program by American authorities.
The court also found that the government violated his rights in 2003 and 2004 by allowing officials to question him without a lawyer present.
The Harper government responded to the Supreme Court by asking the United States to refrain from using information obtained through those interviews.
The Toronto-born Khadr, now 23, was 15 when he was captured by American forces following a shootout with al-Qaida fighters in Afghanistan in July 2002. He is charged with murder as a war crime, and five other charges, for allegedly lobbing a grenade that killed a U.S. army medic.
The government's long-standing position has been that Khadr faces serious charges and Canada must let the U.S. justice process run its course. Khadr's trial in military court is set for August.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Court+ruling+force+feds+bring+Omar+Khadr+back+from+Guantanamo/3238341/story.html#ixzz0sqynWCdq
(Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act)
OTTAWA — The federal government has been given a seven-day deadline to remedy violations of Omar Khadr's constitutional rights by the Federal Court.
Khadr's lawyer Nathan Whitling said Monday's ruling is tantamount to an instruction that Khadr be repatriated from Guantanamo Bay, the U.S. detention camp in Cuba where the young Canadian-born man has been held since 2002.
Judge Russel Zinn ruled that Khadr "is entitled to procedural fairness and natural justice in Canada's process of determining a remedy" for a breach of his constitutional rights that was found by the Supreme Court of Canada earlier this year.
The Supreme Court found officials from the Canadian Security Intelligence Service and the foreign intelligence division of Foreign Affairs Department violated the principles of fundamental justice when they questioned Khadr while knowing he had been subjected to a sleep deprivation program by American authorities.
The court also found that the government violated his rights in 2003 and 2004 by allowing officials to question him without a lawyer present.
The Harper government responded to the Supreme Court by asking the United States to refrain from using information obtained through those interviews.
The Toronto-born Khadr, now 23, was 15 when he was captured by American forces following a shootout with al-Qaida fighters in Afghanistan in July 2002. He is charged with murder as a war crime, and five other charges, for allegedly lobbing a grenade that killed a U.S. army medic.
The government's long-standing position has been that Khadr faces serious charges and Canada must let the U.S. justice process run its course. Khadr's trial in military court is set for August.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Court+ruling+force+feds+bring+Omar+Khadr+back+from+Guantanamo/3238341/story.html#ixzz0sqynWCdq
(Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act)
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Federal Court of Canada decision and summary attached.
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OK?
What is the Federal Court's judgement on the numerous other Canadians jailed thoughout the US, some on Death Row? Surely they have some Constitutional Rights as well. Heck! We might as well start at the beginning of the alphabet and visit every country around the world and see how many Canadians are incarcerated and not being treated as per their Constitutional Rights. I am sure that as soon as we get to Zaire, we will have found hundreds that have not had their Constitutional Rights properly adhered to by a foreign legal or judicial system.
What is the Federal Court's judgement on the numerous other Canadians jailed thoughout the US, some on Death Row? Surely they have some Constitutional Rights as well. Heck! We might as well start at the beginning of the alphabet and visit every country around the world and see how many Canadians are incarcerated and not being treated as per their Constitutional Rights. I am sure that as soon as we get to Zaire, we will have found hundreds that have not had their Constitutional Rights properly adhered to by a foreign legal or judicial system.
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