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The Khadr Thread

the 48th regulator said:
Hey X-Mo,

Cheers, I had not even heard about the videos and such, so I went looking;

http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=3518748n

dileas

tess

Well, I think he should be allowed to go after the war is over  ;D  that was we get our kick at the can, I think these will fit well:

1. Treason as defined here
2. Terrorism as defined here
3. Murder in commission of offences as defined here
4. Murder during terrorist activity as defined here
5. Using explosives in association with criminal organization as defined here


Well thats all I can think of at the moment.


Maybe we can trial him in the US and lock him up in the US to reduce costs associated with him in a Canadian jail  ;D


Is it just me, or was that 14 year old talking about sex  ::)  I think someone needs to give him a smack up side the head and tell him to wait till his 18  ;D
 
Canadian child soldier faces Nuremberg-type charges
Updated Wed. May. 7 2008 9:04 PM ET
CTV.ca News Staff

Canadian Omar Khadr is about to become the first child soldier to be tried for war crimes since the Nuremberg trials against the Nazis.

A military judge in the United States has given the go-ahead to a military commission to prosecute the child soldier for war crimes. He has been languishing in a jail cell in the internationally-condemned U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, since he was 15-years-old.

As U.S. military prosecutors get set to prosecute the Canadian, his case was kicked around like a political football in Ottawa.

Domestic and international observers -- including Canadian and European human rights activists and legal organizations -- have been pressing Prime Minister Stephen Harper to repatriate Khadr for years.

Liberal Leader Stephane Dion on Wednesday demanded to know why the government has not called for the Canadian citizen's return like other Western nations have with their citizens.

"It's the freedom of a Canadian citizen that's at stake," Dion said during question period in the House of Commons.

"Why is the prime minister refusing to demand the return of a Canadian citizen?"

Harper's response to questions about the child soldier's fate was similar to answers he has been given about his government's handling of election tactics, environmental policies, and bureaucratic issues -- he said the previous government was no different. Harper said the Liberals did not do anything to help Khadr when they were in power.

"The only thing that has changed is that in 2006 Canadians changed governments," Harper said.

Harper said Khadr, who was taken by his father to war-torn Afghanistan as a child, faces serious charges.

Deputy Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff brought up the case of Abousfian Abdelrazik, a Canadian on a no-fly list because of alleged ties to terrorists who is stuck in Sudan. His family has said he is not a terrorist and wants Canada to help bring him home. Internal government documents suggest that even some foreign affairs officials say "it's unethical" to leave the Canadian in a legal limbo.

Ignatieff suggested that the Conservatives are picking and choosing which Canadians they want to help overseas.

Last week, Brenda Martin, who was convicted in connection with a fraud scheme in Mexico, was brought home to Canada on a private jet. She was allowed to serve her time in a Canadian prison after several top-level officials in Ottawa -- including the prime minister -- spoke with their Mexican counterparts.

Khadr, now 21, is the only remaining Western prisoner at Guantanamo Bay. Canada, unlike other Western nations who had citizens detained there, has not pushed to have Khadr returned home.

Khadr was captured in 2002 following a firefight with U.S. Special Forces. He was brought to the country by his father, who had ties to al Qaeda and was killed in Pakistan in 2003. The Pentagon maintains Khadr threw a grenade during the fight, killing a U.S. soldier.

"No part of this story is true," his lawyer U.S. navy Lt.-Cmdr. William Kuebler told a parliamentary committee in Ottawa last month.

He was a "frightened, wounded 15-year-old boy" during his capture, Kuebler said.

He said Khadr was then shot twice in the back by a U.S. soldier and would have been summarily executed on the spot had another soldier not intervened. Kuebler has also said that the U.S. has doctored evidence against the Canadian.

He noted he does not think that the Canadian government should punish Khadr for the sins of his father.

Kuebler said international protocol establishes that soldiers under 18 cannot be considered voluntary participants in armed conflict. He said the protocol has established that child soldiers should receive "rehabilitative rather than punitive sentences."

Khadr is expected to appear again in a military court Thursday. His lawyers are trying to obtain documentary evidence about the case from the prosecution.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080507/omar_khadr_080507/20080507?hub=World
 
the 48th regulator 

    Thanks for posting that link  I found it very informative .  I to think he is guilty just from what the videos shown in that link you provided . The only thing I can't understand  is why in the world would we allow his family to live in Canada .    As far as I am concerned once a Terrorist always a Terrorist  .
      Leave it to Stephen Dion to cheer for a wrong cause just so he can gather some votes .  One more reason why he should never be aloud to be a Prime minister .
 
So, "they" have been lobbying PM Harper "for years" on this one, eh?  As in "two" years?  I seem to recall him becoming PM in 2006.  This is 2008, so....

What was the "previous" government doing about Khadr's release prior to 2006?  Just curious....
 
Dollars to doughnuts that all Brenda Martin did was cash her pay cheque to be "guilty" of money laundering in Mexico.  The cases are not similar at all.  Were she found guilty of murder in Mexico she would not be sent home.  Not to mention that there was no action to re-pat her until she was tried and sentenced.  So if that is the standard we have a bit of a wait ahead of us yet.  I recall reading that the British subjects sent home from Gitmo were done so to serve out their sentences, no?
Every time I read about that little shit (kahdr) I get ill thinking about how his family has buggered our country and continues to do so.  :rage:
 
OldSolduer said:
As for Omar Khadr? The due process of law must prevail.

A .22 short in the back of the head, in a ditch on a quiet country road. No publicity, no media announcment, no hoop-la, just a muffled shot in the night.

Justice would be swift.

This whole family is a disgrace, and as far as I am concerend should just 'conveniently' disappear.
 
Khadr was captured in 2002 following a firefight with U.S. Special Forces. He was brought to the country by his father, who had ties to al Qaeda and was killed in Pakistan in 2003. The Pentagon maintains Khadr threw a grenade during the fight, killing a U.S. soldier.


"No part of this story is true," his lawyer U.S. navy Lt.-Cmdr. William Kuebler told a parliamentary committee in Ottawa last month.


He was a "frightened, wounded 15-year-old boy" during his capture, Kuebler said.

He said Khadr was then shot twice in the back by a U.S. soldier and would have been summarily executed on the spot had another soldier not intervened.


Really to bad that was never carried thru.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080507/omar_khadr_080507?s_name=&no_ads=
 
Larry Strong said:
Really to bad that was never carried thru.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080507/omar_khadr_080507?s_name=&no_ads=

Moderator Warnings after a few complaints coming in:

I realize that this topic is pretty emotional and everything ... but committing a war crime or sanctionning the commission of such? That is what that action would be.

Let's remember on this site exactly why we are "Lawful Combattants" shall we? The public and the media ARE seeing the words that you "say" here -- and sometimes the impression being left isn't all that nice.

Same with your's Wes -- murder is still murder.

ArmyVern
The Milnet.ca Staff
 
Complaining???

Good gawd.

Did you call them a whaaaaabulance, or offer them some cheese with their whine, or some tissues for their ussues  ;D ?

What we said was simply tongue in cheek from the ongoing frustration from this group of losers. None of us are serious. Those who can't read what we are saying have a hidden agenda. Thats as plain as the broken nose on my face.

Come on Sarge, sum up....

I hope the left wing liberal limpwristed snivel libertarian granola eating alph-alpha loving tie dye wearing metrosexual nose pierced flower wearing dope smoking head in the sand save the whales freakazoids who pander such crap feel happy by sufficating those of us who have opinions are happy now.

Enough of the PCness.

Anyone who thinks this Khadr family are not a disgrace (and should no longer grace our country's land) are un-Canadian as far as I am concerned.

Would those who complained have been happier if I said, its time for a group hug, so lets give them a new house, car, and a payout of 100 million bucks for offending them? 

I would not be the first person to suggest on here that they take a dirt nap, nor will I be the last. We are expressing our anger and outrage.

Being realistic, many of us are beyond frustrated by those who support open terrorism, then rape and pillage the wealth from the fruit of our great nation by sucking the welfare system, and using the laws we passed to protect ourselves against us. This family are undeserving, and should be deported via frogmarch on the next dirty empty oil tanker off the Halifax pier as far as I am concerned. Of course at night without media hype  ;)

If they lived where I grew up, they would have been burnt out and long since moved on.

Please consider this a complaint against the whinging complainers  ;)

Cold beers,

Wes

EDIT - Yes I am into the whisky tonight :blotto:

 
Wesley  Down Under said:
Complaining???

Good gawd.

Did you call them a whaaaaabulance, or offer them some cheese with their whine, or some tissues for their ussues  ;D ?

What we said was simply tongue in cheek from the ongoing frustration from this group of losers. None of us are serious. Those who can't read what we are saying have a hidden agenda. Thats as plain as the broken nose on my face.

Come on Sarge, sum up....

I hope the left wing liberal limpwristed snivel libertarian granola eating alph-alpha loving tie dye wearing metrosexual nose pierced flower wearing dope smoking head in the sand save the whales freakazoids who pander such crap feel happy by sufficating those of us who have opinions are happy now.

Enough of the PCness.

Anyone who thinks this Khadr family are not a disgrace (and should no longer grace our country's land) are un-Canadian as far as I am concerned.

Would those who complained have been happier if I said, its time for a group hug, so lets give them a new house, car, and a payout of 100 million bucks for offending them? 

I would not be the first person to suggest on here that they take a dirt nap, nor will I be the last. We are expressing our anger and outrage.

Being realistic, many of us are beyond frustrated by those who support open terrorism, then rape and pillage the wealth from the fruit of our great nation by sucking the welfare system, and using the laws we passed to protect ourselves against us. This family are undeserving, and should be deported via frogmarch on the next dirty empty oil tanker off the Halifax pier as far as I am concerned. Of course at night without media hype  ;)

If they lived where I grew up, they would have been burnt out and long since moved on.

Please consider this a complaint against the whinging complainers  ;)

Cold beers,

Wes

EDIT - Yes I am into the whisky tonight :blotto:

Drinking tonight or not -- Fair Warning --

Enough already.

ArmyVern
The Milnet.ca Staff
 
By John Ward, The Canadian Press
ADVERTISEMENT

OTTAWA - Canada and the United States have sunk to the moral equivalent of terrorists in their handling of a young Canadian held at Guantanamo Bay, says Liberal senator and ex-general Romeo Dallaire.

Dallaire says the two countries have flouted human rights and international conventions in dealing with Omar Khadr and are no better than those who don't believe in rights at all.

He told a House of Commons committee Tuesday that Khadr is a victim - a child soldier who should be rehabilitated and reintegrated into society and not tried before what he called an illegal court.

Canada should be bending over backward to bring him home, said Dallaire, formerly Canada's special UN ambassador for children.

Khadr was 15 when he was captured after a fire fight in Afghanistan and has been held in the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, for six years. American authorities now are attempting to try him before a special tribunal.

Dallaire, whose troubling experiences during the 1994 Rwanda genocide helped make him an outspoken advocate of human rights, said the Khadr case points out a moral equivalence among Canada, the United States and al-Qaida.

The United States is ignoring its own laws in prosecuting Khadr and Canada is betraying itself by not fighting for Khadr's return home, he said.

He said the Americans were acting out of panic after 9/11 and Canada was playing politics and that left them no better than the terrorists.

"The minute you start playing with human rights, with conventions, with civil liberties, in order to say that you're doing it to protect yourself and you are going against those rights and conventions, you are no better than the guy who doesn't believe in them at all," he said.

"We are slipping down the slope of going down that same route."

Tory MP Jason Kenney asked if Dallaire really believes that. He pointed to a number of al-Qaida outrages, including an incident in which the terror group reportedly outfitted mentally challenged young girls with explosive belts and sent them to their deaths in a Baghdad animal market.

"Is it your testimony that al-Qaida strapping up a 14-year-old girl with Down syndrome and sending her into a pet market to be remotely detonated is the moral equivalent to Canada's not making extraordinary political efforts for a transfer of Omar Khadr to this country?" he asked.

Dallaire was adamant.

"If you want a black and white, and I'm only too prepared to give it to you, absolutely," he replied. "You're either with the law or not with the law. You're either guilty or you're not."

He added, though, that Kenney was using "extreme scenarios."

Kenney was dismissive: "I submit that the only thing extreme here is what you're saying."

Liberal Leader Stephane Dion said he disagreed with Dallaire's choice of words, and hinted the senator could be disciplined.

"This is a matter to deal with the (party) whip, and we'll deal with that," Dion told reporters.

"I would express that in my own way. I would say that Canada should do like the other countries and ask the government of the United States to bring this Canadian home to be prosecuted in Canada."

"The inaction of the government is unacceptable." 


Wow, I lost a lot of respect for Dallaire for making comments like that, but its not surprising coming from a lieberal.
__________________
 
U.S. paid bounty for Khadr arrest in Pakistan
COLIN FREEZE
From Tuesday's Globe and Mail
May 12, 2008 at 9:32 PM EDT

A U.S. intelligence agency paid a bounty of $500,000 (U.S.) to Pakistani military officials who arrested a Canadian citizen wanted for links to al-Qaeda, according to a new Federal Court ruling.

Mr. Justice Richard Mosley ordered an Oct. 19, 2004, RCMP memo released yesterday after lawyers for The Globe and Mail fought for its disclosure. The newspaper obtained the document more than a year ago, but chose not to publish it after Crown lawyers warned that the release of the information could illegally reveal a state secret.

U.S. officials - likely from the Central Intelligence Agency - had regarded the bounty as sensitive information passed along to Canada in confidence, prompting officials to fight to keep it secret.

Marked "Top Secret," the internal Mountie memo was addressed to former RCMP commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli. Its subject matter was the arrest in Pakistan of Abdullah Khadr, now 28 and jailed in Toronto, the oldest living male member of Canada's infamous Khadr clan.

"He is deemed to be a national security threat and has a $USD 500,000 outstanding bounty for his capture," the memo reads. "He is deemed to be a great intelligence asset due to his close relationship with Osama bin Laden and other [al-Qaeda] members."

The suspect is the older brother of Omar Khadr, who was arrested at 15 in Afghanistan and sent to the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay.

Like his siblings, Abdullah Khadr was raised in Afghanistan by a fundamentalist father, a naturalized Canadian, who befriended Mr. bin Laden while fighting the Soviets.

The family fled to Pakistan in late 2001, where the local army killed the Khadr family patriarch in 2003 and arrested Abdullah Khadr a year later. He was questioned by a host of U.S., Canadian, and Pakistani agents while in custody for nearly a year. During that time, he is alleged to have made several admissions about running guns and rocket launchers to al-Qaeda fighters in Afghanistan.

Mr. Khadr was released in 2005, and Canadian officials facilitated his repatriation, but he was arrested within days of landing in Toronto. More than two years later, he continues to fight extradition to Boston on a U.S. indictment alleging material support for terrorism. While the Mounties say they considered Mr. Khadr a "primary target" of their own investigation, they never laid any charges in Canada.

So far, Mr. Khadr's allegations that he was tortured in Pakistan, and his battles for disclosure of documents in Canada, have stymied all attempts to extradite him. Officials allege he admitted running guns across the Pakistan-Afghanistan border - "I only buy and sell weapons for al-Qaeda," he told authorities, according to a transcript - and also said he used a GPS device to map out co-ordinates for Pakistani jihadists plotting to assassinate Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf.

It was amid the Canadian disclosure battle that federal officials inadvertently released to Mr. Khadr's lawyers the top secret Mountie memo as part of the case's voluminous court filings.

Citing secrecy provisions in the Canada Evidence Act, Crown officials tried to pull it back within hours of its release last spring, and, after learning The Globe and Mail had obtained a copy in the interim, warned that publication could lead to prosecution.

That set the stage for a court battle that ended yesterday with Judge Mosley supporting the news media's right to publish the document. "It is a reasonable inference from the public evidence filed in this application that the bounty was offered and paid by the U.S. government," his 47-page decision reads.

Judge Mosley then went one step further, confirming that the payment was made, even though the memo said only that the bounty was offered.

"The evidence heard in camera supports the conclusion that the bounty was offered and paid by the U.S.," Judge Mosley said in his ruling.

The Federal Court found that the information was supplied to Canada in confidence, and that the attorney-general had acted in good faith by striving to keep it secret. Even so, Judge Mosley ruled that the memo is crucial to Mr. Khadr's defence and the public has a right to know about it.

"The fact that a foreign state paid a bounty for the apprehension of a Canadian citizen abroad and that Canadian officials were aware of it at an early stage is also a matter in which the public would have a legitimate interest," the decision reads.

Government lawyers had argued that a "third-party rule" in intelligence circles keeps vital information flowing among states. Global counterterrorism agencies swap secrets on the understanding that sensitive foreign-generated information should not be publicly produced domestically. To jeopardize the third-party rule is often seen as tantamount to risking the entire flow of information.

Peter Jacobsen, the lawyer who acted for The Globe and Mail, called the ruling a victory for transparency. "It was a crack in the system that allowed The Globe to know this information even existed," he said. "... One wonders how much other information is out there being unjustifiably kept from the public in the name of risk to national security or international relations."

Mr. Khadr's lawyer, Nathan Whitling, said the memo is crucial. "The secret payment of this bounty is another illustration of the U.S.'s notorious practice of 'outsourcing torture,' " he said in an e-mail.

"Rather than getting its own hands dirty, the U.S. simply paid the Musharraf regime $500,000 to arrest Mr. Khadr, knowing full well what Pakistan would do to him."

When asked which U.S. intelligence agency paid the bounty, another one of Mr. Khadr's lawyers said it was obvious. "The CIA," said Dennis Edney. Asked if he had any doubt about that, he said, "none at all."

Mr. Edney added that records show that the CIA questioned Mr. Khadr for 17 days at the beginning of his detention in Pakistan. Defence lawyers intend to argue that the CIA grilling sessions informed, influenced and tainted all subsequent interrogations, nullifying any admissions Mr. Khadr may have made.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080512.wkhadr0512/BNStory/International/?cid=al_gam_nletter_newsUp
 
Hmmm,

My take -- they paid a bounty for a terrorist who was admittedly running guns on behalf of Al-Qaida in Pakistan/Afghanistan who happens to be a Canadian citizen (and being that WE are also in Afghanistan and Al-Qaida is our enemy -- seems quite like the definition of "traitor" to me). What seems to be the big deal?

His Canadian citizenship should somehow protect him from being sought out for his actions?? Spare me. Only in the purple sky world ...
 
Maybe its time that Romeo offers him and his family a group hug, and a we're sorry poster.

I don't think dear sweet Romeo is going to generate much of a fan club shy of the LWDGs and other nutcases. He is not in touch with reality and the overall Canadain public (or so I think), and if he thinks he is scoring political points for his party, well I think he is not.

His comments to me, well personally, and to be serious for one word, are simply 'disgusting'.

Perhaps he should walk accross the floor to Taliban Jack and their ilk?
 
While I might dissagree with Gen Dallaire, I do not think it is reasonnable for the US Government to perpetuate Khadr's detention without due process / trial.
If the US is not prepared to proceed with the due process, then quite possibly, Canada should step up and put him thru the court process...

Isn't that what the US , AUSTRALIA AND BRITAIN did with their own Citzens?
 
geo said:
While I might dissagree with Gen Dallaire, I do not think it is reasonnable for the US Government to perpetuate Khadr's detention without due process / trial.
If the US is not prepared to proceed with the due process, then quite possibly, Canada should step up and put him thru the court process...

Isn't that what the US , AUSTRALIA AND BRITAIN did with their own Citzens?
Yes.  Put them through court processes.  Yes.  Totally reasonable.

::)
 
Well we should bring him back to Canada, and charge him with what I posted a few months ago, but only if it is harsher then he gets from the US; or even better fly a judge down to Cuba so we can charge him under Canadian Law at the same time.  That way he gets a faster "Go directly to Jail"  ;D

NL_engineer said:
1. Treason as defined here
2. Terrorism as defined here
3. Murder in commission of offences as defined here
4. Murder during terrorist activity as defined here
5. Using explosives in association with criminal organization as defined here


Well thats all I can think of at the moment.


Maybe we can trial him in the US and lock him up in the US to reduce costs associated with him in a Canadian jail  ;D
 
Considering all the false starts that have happened WRT this Khadr trial, it makes the US military judicial process appear so incompetent (or possibly corrupt - WRT information withheld fromn defense).  Let's do it - regardless of the endstate and move on.

As things stand, neither the Cdn or US Govts appear well in the court of public opinion.  Time to close this chapter
 
  ::)    Sorry GEO on this I think you following down similar lines as that crackpot Dallaire
 
Hey Kev,

Don't think so...
The US gov't has dictated that their military will put Mr Khadr on trial.....
let them do so with all due haste - as they have indicated they will.

What is it about their DUE PROCESS that is stalling the trial?
They had the will and the means to coduct war crime trials in Nuremburg.... let's get er done.
 
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