The Khadr Thread

[Journeyman]

OK, my initial thought was to rant about what possible difficulty he could have with Khadr being designated an "unlawful enemy combatant."

- was he actually "lawful," ie - wearing the military uniform of a legal state IAW Geneva Accords?
- was he not an "enemy," ie - was he actually cheering for the anti-AQ coalition forces?
- was he not a "combatant," ie - chucking a grenade that kills a medic during a firefight somehow isn't combat?

...leading me to tar military legal types with the same stereotype brushes as scumbags like OJ's Johnnie Cochran et al.

I can only believe that the judge made his decision so that a higher form of tribunal must hear the case, pre-empting a conviction loss at the hands of those aforementioned loophole lawyers who would eventually appeal the original court's jurisdiction.


Forgive me, however, if my cynicism precludes me holding out much hope against Khadr walking (and the Toronto family cult subsequently suing us taxpayers on some trumped-up grounds)

 

[dapaterson]

Journeyman:

The judge in question did not have jurisdiction to determine whether anyone is an "unlawful enemy combatant" - but for his court to have jurisdiction over someone, they must have already been declared as such.  The prosecution in this case did not provide evidence that Khadr had been declared as such, so the judge stated he had no jurisdiction.

On appeal, the prosecution introduced no new evidence, so the judge did not alter his original decision.


In brief: the prosecution screwed up.  Which is hard to do when you are writing the rules, but somehow they managed to do it...

 

[Journeyman]

The judge in question did not have jurisdiction to determine whether anyone is an "unlawful enemy combatant" -

Yes, I read that...perhaps amazingly, I even understood the words.

My point was how could Khadr be determined to be anything BUT an "unlawful enemy combatant."

I apologize for not being a lawyer, but the obvious appeared.......obvious. In the end, this is nothing but another kick at Christopher Speer's widow and family.

 

[GAP]

Pentagon Appeals Gitmo Detainee's Case
By PETE YOST The Associated Press Friday, July 6, 2007; 7:11 PM
Article Link

WASHINGTON -- The Pentagon said Friday it had appealed a decision by a military judge to dismiss the case of a Guantanamo Bay detainee accused of murdering an American soldier in Afghanistan.

It is the first time that the appeals process has been used since it was created by Congress in late 2006 to handle cases involving Guantanamo detainees.

Omar Ahmed Khadr, a Canadian citizen, is one of two detainees whose military trials fell apart because they were not identified as "unlawful" enemy combatants.

The other is Yemeni detainee Salim Ahmed Hamdan, a former driver for Osama bin Laden.

Prosecutors filed an appeal in Khadr's case with the Court of Military Commission Review on July 4, said Navy Lt. Cmdr. Chito Peppler, a Pentagon spokesman.

Peppler said both sides will be given an opportunity to file written briefs.

Khadr and Hamdan are the only ones currently in the roughly 375-prisoner population at Guantanamo who have been charged with crimes under a reconstituted military trial system. The judge who threw out the charges against Hamdan has not yet ruled on prosecutors' motion to reconsider. Hamdan is accused of conspiracy and providing support for terrorism
More on link

 

[Edward Campbell]

I'm about 99.9% sure that I'm missing something but, it looks to me as though the judge said: "Hey, fellows! Congress said I can only preside over a trial of illegal combatants.  You fellows (battalions of government lawyers and clerks) have not declared this kid to be one of those so I cannot conduct a trial.  Go back to yourt offices, get your paperwork in order - you've got supercomputers, guys; how fricking hard can it be to amend a stack of documents? - then come back with the forms filled in neatly and correctly and we'll have ourselves a trial."

It also looks to me like the prosecutors stamped their little feet, held their little breath and then said: "We don't wanna!  We don't hafta!  We're the good guys an' god said it's OK to p!ss on the paperwork."

OK.  Tell me what I've missed.

 

[GAP]

nothing....I think that is as close as it comes to the truth..

 

[The Bread Guy]

The latest from Canada's Liberal leader -- MSM coverage at European Commission media site (an amazing resource, esp. for int'l news, accessible free online) and Google News search "Dion + Khadr"....

Harper Must Defend Rights of All Canadians Citizens: Dion
Liberal Party of Canada news release, 19 Sept 07

TORONTO - Prime Minister Stephen Harper must demand the United States government remove Omar Khadr from the Guantanamo Bay detention facility to ensure his rights as a Canadian citizen are protected, Liberal Opposition Leader Stéphane Dion said today.

"Canada is alone among Western nations in not having secured the release from Guantanamo of one of its nationals. Prime Minister Harper must finally ensure Mr. Khadr receives the same consular support that any other Canadian - detainee or not - would receive," said Mr. Dion.

Mr. Dion made his comments following a meeting with the lawyers who have been appointed for Mr. Khadr in the American military commission process. Despite widespread condemnation of the detention centre, Omar Khadr remains the only Western citizen still detained at Guantanamo, the controversial American military prison in Cuba where people suspected of being al-Qaeda and Taliban operatives are held.

Mr. Khadr has been held in Guantanamo Bay since November 2002. In recent months, it has become increasingly clear that serious questions exist about the legality of the process under which he is to be tried. Despite this mounting evidence, the Conservative government has remained virtually silent.

"It is time for Canada to intervene, as so many other countries have done, to ensure that the charges against its citizen are dealt with, that he is tried in a legitimate court and that he receives due process," said Mr. Dion.

Mr. Dion repeated his call made prior to the Security and Prosperity Partnership Summit in Montebello, Quebec, in August, that if the US is unwilling to provide these assurances, the Conservative government should demand Mr. Khadr's repatriation to Canada where he can be dealt with by our justice system, as has been the case with detainees from Australia, the United Kingdom and France.

 

[COBRA-6]

attempting to deflect attention away from his failure in the Quebec by-elections and as leader of the Liberal party in general...

 

[KevinB]

Well I guess we could give the Americans Dion and try Kadhr up here -- but I think the Americans would not fall for it...

Seriously Kadhr murdered an American SF Medic, and Dion cares about him?  WTF!
I for one am upset the Americans have not executed him which is what he truly deserves, if we still had the death penatly in Canada I'd be all for droping him in Canada.

 

[GAP]

attempting to deflect attention away from his failure in the Quebec by-elections and as leader of the Liberal party in general...

That, and all he'll get here in Canada is handing out Jelly Beans in Sunnydale, because he's so deprived..........now where is that sarcasm icon?

At least in  the states, life is life....and the other inmates will look forward to him arriving 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Wasn't he in Gitmo when the lieberals were in power. I don't remember them yelling, or trying, about bringing him home.

Lie, Liebel, Liberal
The evolution of corrupt government.

At any rate, he deserves to rot there. We already have the rest of his parasite family feeding at the trough of the public taxpayer, with no return to the nation.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

What I'd love to see is him come back to Canada, face a military trial for treason, and then we shoot him.

I'm sick and tired of all this PC nonsense.  It's time to send a real clear message....



Matthew. 

 

[geo]

While I am not thrilled at the prospect of seeing him returned to Canada for trial OR detention, I do pelieve that, if the US intends to try him, they should get the proverbial thumb out and get on with it.

From my perspective, it makes no sense for it to have taken so long to bring him to trial.... No?

 

[1feral1]

Maybe they just threw away the key, ha!

If he rots in Cuba for 5 more years, does not bother me a bit, after all  he is behind bars, and is not in our country.

As far as I am concerned the only rights he has are  .22 short, long, or long rifle.


Wes

 

[Hunteroffortune]

How can this help Dion? Or should I say what groups helped get Dion elected? Two MP's brought an ethnic contingent over to Dion during the leadership race, now, you have to ask yourself, what does Dion owe them? Why has he changed the Liberal position on the Afghan mission? Why did he block the bill that would have kept security certificates? Who or what group is behind Dion?

Bad move by Dion just after his parties lost in Outremont, so why did Dion not only meet with the lawyers, but hold a press conference?

Beats me, maybe someone else has the answer.

 

[Hunteroffortune]

While I am not thrilled at the prospect of seeing him returned to Canada for trial OR detention, I do pelieve that, if the US intends to try him, they should get the proverbial thumb out and get on with it.

From my perspective, it makes no sense for it to have taken so long to bring him to trial.... No?

NO! In WWII how many POW's were granted a trial? Were they not just held until the war ended, then released? He is a traitor to Canada, why would we want him back? It's bad enough that we have his whole family here, when they have publically told us that they hate our culture, our country, and especially they just hate us. They are terrorists, plain and simple. For Dion to get involved, just after going down in flames in the by elections, is shear stupidity.

Dion is listening to some radical groups that got him elected, he never should have made this an issue. It stinks.

 

[geo]

NO! In WWII how many POW's were granted a trial? Were they not just held until the war ended, then released? He is a traitor to Canada, why would we want him back? It's bad enough that we have his whole family here, when they have publically told us that they hate our culture, our country, and especially they just hate us. They are terrorists, plain and simple. For Dion to get involved, just after going down in flames in the by elections, is shear stupidity.

Dion is listening to some radical groups that got him elected, he never should have made this an issue. It stinks.

Hunter... Khadr is not classified as a POW nor is he granted the usual rights of a POW.  The US has stated that he is in Guantanamo to stand trial & has made a big show of starting up a couple of times... only for it to peter out & have him led back to his cell.

The US has laid or alleged that as a civilian, he killed or was responsible for the death of a US Soldier.

They should make up their minds, conduct the trial if that is their intention, arrive at a decision and, if appropriate, mete out a sentence.
Then, let the appeals (if any) begin.

 

[KevinB]

The US has laid or alleged that as a civilian, he killed or was responsible for the death of a US Soldier.

I dont think anyone disputes that is a fact that he threw a grenade that kiled a 18D and inured another of the ODA.

  They have eyewitness (the team that captured him) and his family is rather proud of it.

The fact the gov't let him (and his family) keep their citizenship when they overtly treasonous make me ill.  I wish someone would hurry up and reunite the family with the dad  :threat:

 

[HItorMiss]

I personally am torn on this issue. I see nothing wrong with leaving him in his cell to rot until such time as the US finds the time to give him his day in court then find him guilty and hand out punishment. However as a person who in my mind defends what Canada stands for I find it almost wrong that he at this point has not been given his day in court as is his right.

Though after killing an 18D and committing treason to what rights if any is he truly entailed?

I agree with I6 though why is his family allowed to stay in this country, the fact that they do makes me sick as well!

 

[GAP]

I agree the US should get off the pot and convict him....period

As to Canada's involvement, we have none, other than periphery.....he was a Canadian citizen who traveled to another country(s), engaged in armed conflict, was captured,.......next!!