The Haiti Super Thread- Merged
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If there were OPSEC issues, my original questions would not have been asked.
And to clarify...OPSEC points would be flight times, point of departures and points of arrival.
Whether anyone (outside CANSOFCOM) is coming or going, once out in open source is NOT OPSEC anymore. Like really, anyone not know troops from Petawawa are the next one to go into Afghanistan?
And to clarify...OPSEC points would be flight times, point of departures and points of arrival.
Whether anyone (outside CANSOFCOM) is coming or going, once out in open source is NOT OPSEC anymore. Like really, anyone not know troops from Petawawa are the next one to go into Afghanistan?
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Prairie Dog said:
It's not the OPSEC issues I was going on about --- it's more of the other habit that seems to occur ...
It's the habit of getting the DART WngO ... then finding out via the news that you're leaving the next day ... THEN getting the call from the CoC fan-out telling you "Guess what? You're leaving tomorrow!"
Standard response: "Gee ... what a surprise."
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BulletMagnet said:
Listen, "experts", it was more than DART - get it? Roll your eyes all you want.
The media reports were wrong, your taking them as gospel was wrong and you were breaching OPSEC by speculating.
TR, out.
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Teddy Ruxpin said:
Except that he's the one who said in his very first sentence that
(ie it's [the media reports] are all only speculation). Fact is, every time there's a disaster somewhere the media begins it's speculation as to when the DART is going to be deploying. That's normal for them.
He then went on to relate a prior occasion when their deployment date/time was announced by the media ... then passed on to the deploying members by their CoC after the media had announced that info. That turned out to be the case - at least for his friend ... and some others too.
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AV:
My ire was directed at Bulletmagnet, but also at Prairie Dog and all those others who think they know better. They are out of their lanes. I read (and continue to read) Bulletmagnet's quoted post somewhat differently than your interpretation.
I don't drop the OPSEC bomb lightly, as you know.
My ire was directed at Bulletmagnet, but also at Prairie Dog and all those others who think they know better. They are out of their lanes. I read (and continue to read) Bulletmagnet's quoted post somewhat differently than your interpretation.
I don't drop the OPSEC bomb lightly, as you know.
Gramps
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I am trying to figure out what was the OPSEC violation was. All the info mentioned was in the articles as far as I can see. If anyone had mentioned specifics them maybe there would have been a problem. If flight times, departure locations and the specifics on what and who was being sent then I could see the concern for some. No specifics were given so there should be no problems. I sometimes don't get people on this site, it seems that it depends on who writes the post decides what the response will be.
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Gramps said:
Well if there was one, it wouldn't still be here anyway.
Eye In The Sky
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I think what TR was saying is that it was not just DART...elements from other units were on the ramp as well. DART itself was in the news...perhaps others...weren't.
( I have a friend from a non-DART unit who was on SB...)
( I have a friend from a non-DART unit who was on SB...)
Eye In The Sky
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BM,
FWIW...I agree with you and Gramps here on this one...no mention of anything other than DART and the PA types and media know about that before some people under the DART 'umbrella' actually do, due the nature of the DART composition.
But hey, I am just a small fish in the big pond.
I made mention that a friend of mine in a non-DART unit was on SB but..he/she could have been from the 409th Mukluk Repair Regiment. Gives nobody anything OPSEC-wise.
FWIW...I agree with you and Gramps here on this one...no mention of anything other than DART and the PA types and media know about that before some people under the DART 'umbrella' actually do, due the nature of the DART composition.
But hey, I am just a small fish in the big pond.
I made mention that a friend of mine in a non-DART unit was on SB but..he/she could have been from the 409th Mukluk Repair Regiment. Gives nobody anything OPSEC-wise.
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A major earthquake struck southern Haiti on Tuesday, knocking down buildings and inflicting a catastrophe on the impoverished Caribbean nation, its ambassador to the United States said.
"The only thing I can do now is pray and hope for the best," the ambassador, Raymond Alcide Joseph, told CNN.
The magnitude 7.0 quake struck about 10 miles (15 kilometers) southwest of the Haitian capital Port-au-Prince shortly before 5 p.m. Joseph said he had little information about the extent of damage from the quake, but one government official -- the only one he was able to reach -- told him houses had crumbled "on the right side of the street and the left side of the street."
"He said it is a catastrophe of major proportions," Joseph said.
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A hospital collapsed from the quake, The Associated Press reported. Also, damage was done to an airport and the presidential palace, and a hotel collapsed, Haitian radio reported.
The quake damaged several other government buildings, including the parliament building, and a cathedral in the capital, according to Agence France-Presse, citing Haitian TV.
Frank Williams, the Haitian director of the relief agency World Vision International, said the quake left people "pretty much screaming" all around Port-au-Prince. He said the agency's building shook for about 35 seconds, "and portions of things on the building fell off."
"None of our staff were injured, but lots of walls are falling down," Williams said. "Many of our staff have tried to leave, but were unsuccessful because the walls from buildings and private residences are falling into the streets, so that it has pretty much blocked significantly most of the traffic."
Impact Your World: How you can help
The quake was centered about 6 miles (10 kilometers) underground, according to the USGS. A magnitude 5.9 aftershock followed soon afterward, about 30 miles further west, followed by a 5.5 aftershock closer to the location of the first quake.
"There is a kind of wail as people are very frightened by it," Williams said of the aftershocks. "But most people are out in the streets and just kind of looking up."
The Rev. Kesner Ajax, executive director of a school in the southwestern city of Cayes, said several people were hurt when they rushed to get out of the building. Two homes in the area collapsed and the top of a church collapsed in a nearby town, he said, but he did not know of any fatalities.
Cayes, a city of about 400,000 people, is about 225 kilometers southwest of Port-au-Prince.
Luke Renner, an American staying in Cap-Hatien, a city nearly 100 miles north of Port-au-Prince, said he was sitting at his home when "the whole world started to shake."
"It felt like our whole house was balancing on a beach ball," Renner said. "We heard the whole community screaming and in an uproar during that whole 20- to 30-second window."
"I haven't seen any structural damage here," Renner continued. "With the sun setting it may be difficult to tell. In the morning we'll know for sure."
Because of the earthquake's proximity to the capital, and because the city is densely populated and has poorly constructed housing, "it could cause significant casualties," said Jian Lin, a senior geologist at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution in Massachusetts.
The disaster is the latest to befall Haiti, which has a population of about 9 million people and is the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere. Hurricane Gordon killed more than 1,000 people in 1994, while Hurricane Georges killed more than 400 and destroyed the majority of the country's crops in 1998.
In 2004, heavy rains from Hurricane Jeanne -- which passed north of the country -- caused landslides and flooding that killed more than 3,000 people, mostly in the northwestern city of Gonaives. Gonaives was hit heavily again in 2008, when four tropical systems passed through.
A tsunami watch for Haiti, the Dominican Republic and parts of Cuba following a 7.0-magnitude earthquake that struck southern Haiti has been canceled, the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center said.
Eighty percent of Haiti's population lives under the poverty line, according to the CIA World Factbook.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/12/haiti.earthquake/index.html
"The only thing I can do now is pray and hope for the best," the ambassador, Raymond Alcide Joseph, told CNN.
The magnitude 7.0 quake struck about 10 miles (15 kilometers) southwest of the Haitian capital Port-au-Prince shortly before 5 p.m. Joseph said he had little information about the extent of damage from the quake, but one government official -- the only one he was able to reach -- told him houses had crumbled "on the right side of the street and the left side of the street."
"He said it is a catastrophe of major proportions," Joseph said.
Are you there? Submit an iReport
A hospital collapsed from the quake, The Associated Press reported. Also, damage was done to an airport and the presidential palace, and a hotel collapsed, Haitian radio reported.
The quake damaged several other government buildings, including the parliament building, and a cathedral in the capital, according to Agence France-Presse, citing Haitian TV.
Frank Williams, the Haitian director of the relief agency World Vision International, said the quake left people "pretty much screaming" all around Port-au-Prince. He said the agency's building shook for about 35 seconds, "and portions of things on the building fell off."
"None of our staff were injured, but lots of walls are falling down," Williams said. "Many of our staff have tried to leave, but were unsuccessful because the walls from buildings and private residences are falling into the streets, so that it has pretty much blocked significantly most of the traffic."
Impact Your World: How you can help
The quake was centered about 6 miles (10 kilometers) underground, according to the USGS. A magnitude 5.9 aftershock followed soon afterward, about 30 miles further west, followed by a 5.5 aftershock closer to the location of the first quake.
"There is a kind of wail as people are very frightened by it," Williams said of the aftershocks. "But most people are out in the streets and just kind of looking up."
The Rev. Kesner Ajax, executive director of a school in the southwestern city of Cayes, said several people were hurt when they rushed to get out of the building. Two homes in the area collapsed and the top of a church collapsed in a nearby town, he said, but he did not know of any fatalities.
Cayes, a city of about 400,000 people, is about 225 kilometers southwest of Port-au-Prince.
Luke Renner, an American staying in Cap-Hatien, a city nearly 100 miles north of Port-au-Prince, said he was sitting at his home when "the whole world started to shake."
"It felt like our whole house was balancing on a beach ball," Renner said. "We heard the whole community screaming and in an uproar during that whole 20- to 30-second window."
"I haven't seen any structural damage here," Renner continued. "With the sun setting it may be difficult to tell. In the morning we'll know for sure."
Because of the earthquake's proximity to the capital, and because the city is densely populated and has poorly constructed housing, "it could cause significant casualties," said Jian Lin, a senior geologist at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution in Massachusetts.
The disaster is the latest to befall Haiti, which has a population of about 9 million people and is the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere. Hurricane Gordon killed more than 1,000 people in 1994, while Hurricane Georges killed more than 400 and destroyed the majority of the country's crops in 1998.
In 2004, heavy rains from Hurricane Jeanne -- which passed north of the country -- caused landslides and flooding that killed more than 3,000 people, mostly in the northwestern city of Gonaives. Gonaives was hit heavily again in 2008, when four tropical systems passed through.
A tsunami watch for Haiti, the Dominican Republic and parts of Cuba following a 7.0-magnitude earthquake that struck southern Haiti has been canceled, the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center said.
Eighty percent of Haiti's population lives under the poverty line, according to the CIA World Factbook.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/12/haiti.earthquake/index.html
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Having been there, I can only imagine the horror that is going on now. Thankfully the weather is not much of an issue right now (eg: not driven out into the freezing cold). 7.0 on the scale, and only 15 km away as the epicentre. That must have been one hell of a shaking. My heart goes out to those caught up in this.
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For those who would like to provide assistance, I think the Canadian redcross is the best humanitarian organization to donate to.
Here's the link: https://www.paypaq.com/redcross/new/index.php
I wished I could be there to help those people but I can't so I have made a donation instead.
And remember, every dollar counts.
:yellow:
Here's the link: https://www.paypaq.com/redcross/new/index.php
I wished I could be there to help those people but I can't so I have made a donation instead.
And remember, every dollar counts.
:yellow:
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http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Canada+ready+help+earthquake+devastated+Haiti/2433688/story.html
Looks like CF might get involved...
Looks like CF might get involved...
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If there was ever an instance where the full weight of the CF (not deployed, or deploying to Afghanistan) should be fired immediately into a foreign country in the name of humanitarian aid, this is the time.
We dump huge money into Haiti. We have police there, we had soldiers there.
If Canada want to show itself as more than just America's inconsequential neighbour, then we need to get our butt there fast.
We dump huge money into Haiti. We have police there, we had soldiers there.
If Canada want to show itself as more than just America's inconsequential neighbour, then we need to get our butt there fast.
Eye In The Sky
Army.ca Legend
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CTV News: Canada ready to help Haiti.
There is no confirmation of Canadian casualties in the Haiti earthquake, although 6,000 citizens from this country reside there, Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon said Tuesday.
Of those, only 700 are registered with the Canadian Embassy in Port-au-Prince, he said.
"Canada is offering its condolences to all those affected by this disaster. Our thoughts are with the people of Haiti," Cannon told a news conference in Ottawa. "We invite Canadians who are in the area to call home and reassure their loved ones."
Haiti is the second largest recipient of humanitarian aid from Canada, Cannon pointed out: "We have a close relationship with Haiti and are ready to act," he said. "We are committed to helping Haiti. We have done this in the past."
Officials in Ottawa and Port-au-Prince are closely monitoring the situation and "Canadians are ready to give consular assistance," Cannon said.
Government officials are also considering whether to deploy its Disaster Assistance Response Team (DART) — Canada's team of 200 Canadian Forces personnel which provides help to areas affected by disaster for up to 40 days. Canada currently has five soldiers in Haiti, posted there for security reasons.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper issued a statement Tuesday evening extending his "sincere sympathies to all affected by this disaster."
"Canadians are profoundly concerned about the impact of today's earthquake in Haiti," Harper said.
"Our nation is home to a large community of Canadians of Haitian descent. Our thoughts and prayers are with them as they seek word about the safety of their loved ones."
While officials assess the damage and the possibility of Canadians being injured in the quake, "Canada stands ready to provide any necessary assistance to the people of Haiti during this time of need," Harper said.
Gov. Gen. Michaëlle Jean issued a statement saying she is following the tragedy in her native country "with great attention and concern."
"This natural disaster has hit a country with an extremely fragile infrastructure, where many buildings are already unstable, and where living conditions are often very difficult. I fear for its people," she said.
"I would like all Haitians to know that they are not alone and that Canadians will respond to this emergency."
In Washington, U.S. President Barack Obama said his "thoughts and prayers" were with the people of Haiti and pledged to come to their aid if needed.
"We are closely monitoring the situation and we stand ready to assist the people of Haiti," Obama said in a statement.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CBC News: Thousands feared dead as 7.0 quake hits Haiti.
The largest earthquake ever recorded in the area rocked Haiti on Tuesday, collapsing a hospital where people screamed for help and damaging other buildings.
An aid official described "total disaster and chaos."
Communications were widely disrupted, making it impossible to get a clear picture of damage as powerful aftershocks shook a desperately poor country where many buildings are flimsy. Electricity was out in some places.
Karel Zelenka, a Catholic Relief Services representative in the capital of Port-au-Prince, told U.S. colleagues before phone service failed that "there must be thousands of people dead," according to a spokeswoman for the aid group Sara Fajardo.
"He reported that it was just total disaster and chaos, that there were clouds of dust surrounding Port-au-Prince," Fajardo said from the group's offices in Maryland.
The headquarters of the UN peacekeeping Mission in Haiti sustained "serious damage" in Tuesday's earthquake and a large number of UN personnel in Haiti are unaccounted for, the peacekeeping chief said late Tuesday.
Alain Le Roy in New York said other UN installations in the Caribbean nation were also seriously damaged. UN officials said a large number of its personnel were missing.
The executive director of Haitian Ministries for the Diocese of Norwich, Conn., Emily Smack, said she believed two of the organization's staff are trapped in their mission house, which partially collapsed during the earthquake.
Other buildings also were damaged and scientists said they expected "substantial" damage and casualties as powerful aftershocks shook the country.
The earthquake had a magnitude of 7.0 and was centred about 15 kilometres west of Port-au-Prince, the U.S. Geological Survey said.
It had a depth of eight kilometres and was the largest quake recorded in the area, said Dale Grant, an analyst with the U.S. agency. The last major quake was a magnitude-6.7 temblor in 1984.
Weather conditions were generally quiet at the time of the quake. A mostly sunny sky with temperatures around 25 C to 30 C were reported.
* more on article link
What do you say in times like this? Hopefully our southern neighbors and ourselves will giddy-up and do what we can, and fast.
Thoughts and prayers to all who are and will be affected by this. If they come looking for volunteers tomorrow, my name will be on the list.
There is no confirmation of Canadian casualties in the Haiti earthquake, although 6,000 citizens from this country reside there, Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon said Tuesday.
Of those, only 700 are registered with the Canadian Embassy in Port-au-Prince, he said.
"Canada is offering its condolences to all those affected by this disaster. Our thoughts are with the people of Haiti," Cannon told a news conference in Ottawa. "We invite Canadians who are in the area to call home and reassure their loved ones."
Haiti is the second largest recipient of humanitarian aid from Canada, Cannon pointed out: "We have a close relationship with Haiti and are ready to act," he said. "We are committed to helping Haiti. We have done this in the past."
Officials in Ottawa and Port-au-Prince are closely monitoring the situation and "Canadians are ready to give consular assistance," Cannon said.
Government officials are also considering whether to deploy its Disaster Assistance Response Team (DART) — Canada's team of 200 Canadian Forces personnel which provides help to areas affected by disaster for up to 40 days. Canada currently has five soldiers in Haiti, posted there for security reasons.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper issued a statement Tuesday evening extending his "sincere sympathies to all affected by this disaster."
"Canadians are profoundly concerned about the impact of today's earthquake in Haiti," Harper said.
"Our nation is home to a large community of Canadians of Haitian descent. Our thoughts and prayers are with them as they seek word about the safety of their loved ones."
While officials assess the damage and the possibility of Canadians being injured in the quake, "Canada stands ready to provide any necessary assistance to the people of Haiti during this time of need," Harper said.
Gov. Gen. Michaëlle Jean issued a statement saying she is following the tragedy in her native country "with great attention and concern."
"This natural disaster has hit a country with an extremely fragile infrastructure, where many buildings are already unstable, and where living conditions are often very difficult. I fear for its people," she said.
"I would like all Haitians to know that they are not alone and that Canadians will respond to this emergency."
In Washington, U.S. President Barack Obama said his "thoughts and prayers" were with the people of Haiti and pledged to come to their aid if needed.
"We are closely monitoring the situation and we stand ready to assist the people of Haiti," Obama said in a statement.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CBC News: Thousands feared dead as 7.0 quake hits Haiti.
The largest earthquake ever recorded in the area rocked Haiti on Tuesday, collapsing a hospital where people screamed for help and damaging other buildings.
An aid official described "total disaster and chaos."
Communications were widely disrupted, making it impossible to get a clear picture of damage as powerful aftershocks shook a desperately poor country where many buildings are flimsy. Electricity was out in some places.
Karel Zelenka, a Catholic Relief Services representative in the capital of Port-au-Prince, told U.S. colleagues before phone service failed that "there must be thousands of people dead," according to a spokeswoman for the aid group Sara Fajardo.
"He reported that it was just total disaster and chaos, that there were clouds of dust surrounding Port-au-Prince," Fajardo said from the group's offices in Maryland.
The headquarters of the UN peacekeeping Mission in Haiti sustained "serious damage" in Tuesday's earthquake and a large number of UN personnel in Haiti are unaccounted for, the peacekeeping chief said late Tuesday.
Alain Le Roy in New York said other UN installations in the Caribbean nation were also seriously damaged. UN officials said a large number of its personnel were missing.
The executive director of Haitian Ministries for the Diocese of Norwich, Conn., Emily Smack, said she believed two of the organization's staff are trapped in their mission house, which partially collapsed during the earthquake.
Other buildings also were damaged and scientists said they expected "substantial" damage and casualties as powerful aftershocks shook the country.
The earthquake had a magnitude of 7.0 and was centred about 15 kilometres west of Port-au-Prince, the U.S. Geological Survey said.
It had a depth of eight kilometres and was the largest quake recorded in the area, said Dale Grant, an analyst with the U.S. agency. The last major quake was a magnitude-6.7 temblor in 1984.
Weather conditions were generally quiet at the time of the quake. A mostly sunny sky with temperatures around 25 C to 30 C were reported.
* more on article link
What do you say in times like this? Hopefully our southern neighbors and ourselves will giddy-up and do what we can, and fast.
Thoughts and prayers to all who are and will be affected by this. If they come looking for volunteers tomorrow, my name will be on the list.
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