The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

[ModlrMike]

Lots of people east of Manitoba have firearms...

Sure they do... which changes the calculus to "we're going to go up in flames, we might as well burn everyone when we do".

 

[Haggis]

I would love to see that play out in Court. It's private property and a business transaction. I don't have to do business with anyone I don't want to.

Your club's licence right now probably already says that public agents are allowed to use prohibited firearms without restrictions. This is just another small step and well within the authorities of the Firearms Act.

I personally think many in the Firearms Community are still of mind that, "this will all blow over and it's all going to go back to normal when the CPC comes to power". AKA they have their head in the sand.

It will take years. Likely at least 1/2 way into PP first term before any attempt a meaningful positive changes are made to Trudeau's assaults on lawful firearms ownership.

C-19 was a decade+ ago. Canada is a different Country now and gun owners/sports shooting enthusiasts are a dwindling group.

Not true. The number of PAL holders has never been higher. The number of PAL holders rose by 87,694 in 2023, the biggest annual advance since at least 2003. I have a friend who runs a firearms training business teaching the CFSC and CRFSC and he cannot keep up with demand.

They also think that LE Organizations are their allies in this cause, after all, many LEO are firearms enthusiasts themselves. Sorry to say but this couldn't be further from the truth.

Many major LEAs see this as a colossal waste of money and resources. Some have called Trudeau out on his claims that these bans have made Canada safer. Within federal agencies, many of the rank and file feel the same way. But organizationally, the federal agency senior management has to toe the party line. The RCMP's union has opposed this from the start.

You hit the nail on the head with the money piece though. Most Ranges are hooked to the Govt teeth and want the $$$.

Gun clubs and shooting ranges are by law not-for-profit entities. If you want to keep your membership dues low and make shooting accessible to a larger number of people, rental income helps do that. The agencies that use my club are excellent clients. They leave the place spotless, never interfere with other members and give us good reviews with the CFO and local government when asked. Dozens are members now, because they like the place.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I personally think many in the Firearms Community are still of mind that, "this will all blow over and it's all going to go back to normal when the CPC comes to power". AKA they have their head in the sand.

This is a cornerstone issue for the CPC, no matter if they recognize it or not. Millions of Canadians are expecting action on this; and quickly. And a strong majority Gov by them should allow this to happen.

If they fail in this, the fallout for them will be millions of lost voters who I think will end up going PPC and that should be a nightmare scenario for the CPC.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

When (if?) the Conservative are back in power, they need to put this whole matter to bed once and for all so that the Libs/Dippers can't keep bringing it up all the time. The way to do it is through a comprehensive, thoughtful piece of legislation based on verifiable facts that emphasizes the already stringent requirements to hold a FAC, make red flag rules clear and easy to assimilate, require (or rather continue to require) firearms serial numbers, make plain the factors that disqualify you from owning a firearm - including how to lose it after you have qualified, and then create a centralized system that is fast and easy to use for police and firearms dealers to identify who does or does not qualify for a firearm. It would also provide for the obligation to report annually on firearms crimes with full information on source of the guns and whether the crimes arose from lawful owners or unlawful owners of guns.

Such legislation would then create specific criminal acts related to unlawful firearms use and possession, with severe automatic penalties protected against charter challenges by legislation, such as, for example, an automatic five years no parole term for merely being in possession of a handgun without the proper permits, etc. etc.

Finally, this would be rounded up by policy of creating and fully financing on a steady basis special joint units of the CBPS and RCMP to go after gun smuggling and of specialized Provincial/municipal police task forces to go after gangs' guns.

 

[Halifax Tar]

When (if?) the Conservative are back in power, they need to put this whole matter to bed once and for all so that the Libs/Dippers can't keep bringing it up all the time. The way to do it is through a comprehensive, thoughtful piece of legislation based on verifiable facts that emphasizes the already stringent requirements to hold a FAC, make red flag rules clear and easy to assimilate, require (or rather continue to require) firearms serial numbers, make plain the factors that disqualify you from owning a firearm - including how to lose it after you have qualified, and then create a centralized system that is fast and easy to use for police and firearms dealers to identify who does or does not qualify for a firearm. It would also provide for the obligation to report annually on firearms crimes with full information on source of the guns and whether the crimes arose from lawful owners or unlawful owners of guns.

Such legislation would then create specific criminal acts related to unlawful firearms use and possession, with severe automatic penalties protected against charter challenges by legislation, such as, for example, an automatic five years no parole term for merely being in possession of a handgun without the proper permits, etc. etc.

Finally, this would be rounded up by policy of creating and fully financing on a steady basis special joint units of the CBPS and RCMP to go after gun smuggling and of specialized Provincial/municipal police task forces to go after gangs' guns.

A new gov department perhaps. The Canadian Department of Firearms.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Next you'll want to add Alcohol and Tobacco?

No, I don't think it warrants a whole department. And I would like to emphasize that the type of legislation I envisage her would be mostly encompassing of the rules, with very little left within the purview of regulations or orders-in-council so that it would be settled law with nearly no capacity for later governments or firearm officers to change the rules without either amending or repealing the law by way of another act of Parliament, which is always more difficult once a permanent law is on the books.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Next you'll want to add Alcohol and Tobacco?

No, I don't think it warrants a whole department. And I would like to emphasize that the type of legislation I envisage her would be mostly encompassing of the rules, with very little left within the purview of regulations or orders-in-council so that it would be settled law with nearly no capacity for later governments or firearm officers to change the rules without either amending or repealing the law by way of another act of Parliament, which is always more difficult once a permanent law is on the books.

I was only half serious... Unless they'd offer me a job, then I'm full serious lol

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Meanwhile back in the US

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Meanwhile back in the US

6000 rounds a minute. Able to penetrate both sides of a building and still hit a target 18 football fields away.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Yea the description by the media people is rather fanciful

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I was only half serious... Unless they'd offer me a job, then I'm full serious lol

Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a chain of convenience stores.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Even in the US, long guns of all types are used in about an average of 400 homicides a year.

 

[ballz]

Gun clubs and shooting ranges are by law not-for-profit entities. If you want to keep your membership dues low and make shooting accessible to a larger number of people, rental income helps do that. The agencies that use my club are excellent clients. They leave the place spotless, never interfere with other members and give us good reviews with the CFO and local government when asked. Dozens are members now, because they like the place.

What part of the law prevents a "for-profit" entity from running a gun club or shooting range?

I'm also not sure how that matters .... "not-for-profit" corps only differ from "for-profit" corps in one way that is relevant to the point I thnk you're trying to make - they don't pay income taxes on their "profits" (called 'surplus') - which is an advantage from the perspective of being able to keep prices lower.

There is nothing that prevents an NPO from having any of the revenue streams of a normal corporation.

Not arguing that renting to various government agencies is good business for them... just don't see how them being an NPO is relevant and don't think that there is any law stating they must be NPOs. It just makes better sense to operate as an NPO if you've got no profit intentions/motivations.

 

[FSTO]

Matt Gurney on the vacuousness of the Trudeau Party of Canada.

Dispatch from the Front Lines: When the Liberals ban guns in the forest ...

... no one cares, because no one takes them seriously anymore.

www.readtheline.ca

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The fastest way is to bring back one of the previous Firearms Acts with no rewrites and bring that into law, while you write a new one.

 

[CountDC]

When (if?) the Conservative are back in power, they need to put this whole matter to bed once and for all so that the Libs/Dippers can't keep bringing it up all the time. The way to do it is through a comprehensive, thoughtful piece of legislation based on verifiable facts that emphasizes the already stringent requirements to hold a FAC, make red flag rules clear and easy to assimilate, require (or rather continue to require) firearms serial numbers, make plain the factors that disqualify you from owning a firearm - including how to lose it after you have qualified, and then create a centralized system that is fast and easy to use for police and firearms dealers to identify who does or does not qualify for a firearm. It would also provide for the obligation to report annually on firearms crimes with full information on source of the guns and whether the crimes arose from lawful owners or unlawful owners of guns.

Such legislation would then create specific criminal acts related to unlawful firearms use and possession, with severe automatic penalties protected against charter challenges by legislation, such as, for example, an automatic five years no parole term for merely being in possession of a handgun without the proper permits, etc. etc.

Finally, this would be rounded up by policy of creating and fully financing on a steady basis special joint units of the CBPS and RCMP to go after gun smuggling and of specialized Provincial/municipal police task forces to go after gangs' guns.

kinda sounds like an enhanced gun registry. Would be nice if they could put if to bed but we all know that no matter what they do the libs and ndp will rehash and change as they want over time. Best that can be done is to make it a longer process. I don't even own a gun and hate the changes they keep pushing and the false narrative to justify it. Hate even more that there are so many stupid people that keep falling for it.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Best way to put the gun control stuff in it's place is to promote shooting sports to women and minorities. Both of which were the fastest growing demographics in the sport. Once you get a large number of women into the sport, they will lose it as a wedge issue. It will also push gun ranges to improve their facilities.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Oh yah, and all the little piddly chicken shit Firearm Orgs that exist in Canada need to get their act together, merge and get organized.

NFA, CCFR, CSSA, DCRA.... merge them all together. Get some real lobbying power.

Been tried before, massive failure.

Petty politics, oneupmanship, types of messaging, who gets to lead, funds and policy differences has sewered the idea a couple of times already. We can't leave this up to the organizations to get this done. It'll take a huge groundswell of members from all entities to demand consolidation of the organizations. It is useless to try this during the current fuckery, ongoing by the trudeau regime.

Once the Conservatives take the pressure off, it'll be time to mobilize members to get this done and be operating at full steam whenever a hostile government comes back to power.

Besides, if the Conservatives mount their firearms committee, there are only going so many seats at the table. If there are still a number of small entities, they all run the risk of not getting a seat.

The organizations need to get their shit together and fight for gun owners, not for who gets a job on the board of directors.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Even in the US, the NRA is not the only pro-gun organization, there are several other ones as well. The reality is that the gun community in both countries is far more diverse than presented, with many different interests.

 

[Fabius]

Best way to put the gun control stuff in it's place is to promote shooting sports to women and minorities. Both of which were the fastest growing demographics in the sport. Once you get a large number of women into the sport, they will lose it as a wedge issue. It will also push gun ranges to improve their facilities.

I think the LPC actions and the extremist agenda driven by the gun control lobbyists are exactly because the lobbyists were seeing that demographic shift and overall growth in positive legal firearms ownership.
That is NOT in line with what they want for Canadian society. Hence the relentless and ambiguous random bans, they are effective in destroying the manufacturing, distributing, importing and retail sectors that underpin the culture.
The hard core gun control lobby in Canada (Quebec) is actually very small but the LPC grants them outsized power.