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The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread

Greymatters said:
Dont know if he's the best ever, but he's certainly a far cry better than anybody else in quite a while.  Hard to tell if he's better than General MacKenzie was without the two of them being side-by-side for comparison. 

I think Hillier was needed at this time and is doing a good job.  Mackenzie IMHO is another one of the many wannabees you see on tv who were seen but rarely heard while in uniforum and now have alot to say when they are out of uniforum.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
Further (see Clarkson and McCall, et al) Trudeau actively disliked the military - and that's not a strong enough word. He disliked and mistrusted soldiers and just wanted them (us) all to go away, quietly. The military didn't much like the government, either - not after Hellyer vs. Landymore and Moncel (another of the best CDS we never had). 

Not up on Hellyer and Landymore, so did a quick search.  Only found one article with good details here:
http://www.st-timothy.com/newsletters/0206/vondette-complete.php?layout=1

Anyone able to confirm as to whether this is an accurate portrayal?
 
riggermade said:
I think Hillier was needed at this time and is doing a good job.  Mackenzie IMHO is another one of the many wannabees you see on tv who were seen but rarely heard while in uniforum and now have alot to say when they are out of uniforum. 

Not according to the soldiers I knew who worked under him in Sarajevo...
 
E.R, all soldiers support the CDS. I support the CDS. But he is walking a fine line when he attracts better media attention than his employer?

I am concerned that our political leader will not make the same mistake twice and have another Hillier as a CDS.

When I served during the 60's & 70's the CDS was rarely mentioned or seen. Today a vast majority of Canadians are aware of who is the CDS. Which speaks volumes for Gen. Hillier ability to communicate with the masses.

I believe if the CDS walks on to many toes,  the military will suffer when the PM selects the next CDS.



 
Greymatters said:
Not according to the soldiers I knew who worked under him in Sarajevo...

I agree that he did an awesome job in Sarajevo and he was likely muzzled while in uniforum but from civilians I speak to they see him in the same ilk as all the other so called ex-military who seem to be on the television
 
riggermade said:
I agree that he did an awesome job in Sarajevo and he was likely muzzled while in uniforum but from civilians I speak to they see him in the same ilk as all the other so called ex-military who seem to be on the television 

In that regard I have to admit some dissapointmnet, especially when I got a letter today and see he is as acting as a spokesperson for United Way.  It makes one wonder, did he sell out, or is this the best he can do after being effectively shut out of the Ottawa three-ring circus of retired experts?  Regarding his television appearances, I do recall he acted as an 'expert' during the US road trip to Baghdad, and was considered the only one who said anything credible.  Perhaps he has done some silly things since then that I havent seen out here on the west coast?

 
I believe if the CDS walks on to many toes,  the military will suffer when the PM selects the next CDS.

This is the part that worries me. We finally have an effective, outspoken, well-recognized CDS: I hope that the politicians don't get scared of the idea. I guess it depends on the strength of character of the particular MND and the PM in power on the day the decision is made. If they are real leaders who are secure in their positions and comfortable with power and responsibility, they will probably be able to deal with a strong subordinate. If, on the other hand, they are greasy backstabbers who trust no-one, or nervous newbies scared of their own shadows, they'll look for a silent office boy.

Cheers
 
What I find refreshing about Gen Hillier is he always advocates for the troops even if it makes him unpopular to the media or political parties. Most of the other CDSs I have seen would wait for their bottled response to be given to them so they wouldn't close the door on future civilian political posts.

Maybe Gen Hillier is the military's version of Don Cherry, outspoken and says what most soldiers are thinking but are afraid to say in public? Only time will tell if he is replaced. Even if he is replaced, he has served his full term and will always be remembered as a great CDS. My only hope is the next CDS is just as voracious and a soldier first, political lapdog second.

My opinion. ;D
 
Maybe this country is growing up? Maybe both General Hillier and...yes...even Don Cherry...are both symbols of a new way we are starting to look at ourselves. Maybe we will gradually shed this mumbly-peg foot-shuffling eternal bridesmaid image we have of ourselves (and that some Canadians seem to almost pathologically enjoy projecting to the world) and step up a but more. Perhaps that's a bit much to project from the actions of  one person, but sometimes I think I see signs that we are starting to come of age.

Cheers
 
Nah... it's Gen Hillier's down home personality... no one can get mad & stay mad at a Newf.

What he has done & what he has gotten away with... probably wouldn't work with most other General officers.
 
Canada's top soldier talks up the troops
  Alisha Morrissey The Telegram Friday, November 16, 2007
Article Link

ST. JOHN'S, N.L. -- Always a soldier's soldier, Gen. Rick Hillier talked up the troops in a speech in St. John's, N.L., Thursday.

Hillier talked mostly about the future of the Canadian forces and what he called "the pillars" of the future military, when he spoke to hundreds of delegates and invited guests, including the Military Family Resource Centre.

He outlined the new Canadian forces framework, talking about uniting the army, navy and air force, building up special forces, the renewed focus on physical fitness and training and recruitment.

"We're hearing around the world that, 'You guys are great. We need more of you,' " Hillier said, before asking the audience how many had seen the new recruitment advertising.

Most had seen the military's new ad campaign, which Hillier described as true-to-life advertising.

He said the ad that was playing when he joined was a soldier in dress uniform climbing down from a plane with a brief case in his hand. Hillier said when lying in trenches, muddied and tired during training he realized that the ad's slogan - "There's no life like it" - was true, but not much else.

Hillier also talked about Afghanistan, the problems there, the entrepreneurial people and culture and what Canada is doing to help.

He talked about how children attend schools in three shifts a day, because they want to be educated.

"A well changes your life," Hillier said, when showing how soldiers help dig wells for communities, "if your well is five kilometres away and you're the little boy or little girl who has to go get (water)."

He encouraged the women in the audience to click their heels proudly on the sidewalk, explaining that in Afghanistan women are whipped for the same act. There was a collective gasp, when he showed photos taken of a woman who was about to be executed because she'd been seen in public with a man who wasn't in her immediate family.

Hillier showed slides of food and supply drops, soldiers meeting with district leaders; photos taken while the country's first census was being taken and inoculation and education for Afghan children.

But not every soldier is serving in Afghanistan, he pointed out, saying that the military's "no-fail mission," is responding to needs at home in capacities like search and rescue.

It was then that he introduced two real soldiers, Vicky Stamp and Derrick Curtis, who serve respectively as a supply technician and search and rescue technician.

Stamp, he says, worked on the Swiss Air disaster and on 9/11 relief. Curtis rode a bike across the country to raise money to fight violence against women and parachuted into a blizzard in Canada's north in a search and rescue operation.

Hillier later introduced Sgt. Sheldon Herritt, who has served in Afghanistan and who was injured earlier this year when trying to disable an improvised explosive device.

Hillier said that when Canadians support their troops - with red rallies, magnetic yellow ribbons on their cars, renaming highways after lost soldiers, and even sending Tim Hortons gift certificates to a war zone - it encourages the troops and reminds them why they do their jobs.

"When you're 10,000 miles from home and somebody out there perhaps is trying to kill you, you can be forgiven for thinking you're in this by yourself," he said. "So when you're back here in Canada or here in Newfoundland and Labrador these things inspire us."
More on link
 
Eugene Lang--topic on his and Janice Stein's book here--
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/67585.0.html

to my amazement defends CDS Hillier's public role.  I couldn't find anything between the lines, except maybe the reference to UK CGS Dannatt's evangelical Christianity, and the reference to Gen. Hillier's being "the architect of the Kandahar mission"--no doubt paranoia on my part.

Don't leave talk to the politicians
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071116.wcoessayhillier1117/BNStory/specialComment/

For the first time in several decades, a serving military officer, General Rick Hillier, Chief of the Defence Staff, has emerged as one of Canada's leading public figures. Since his appointment in 2005, he has occupied centre stage on the war in Afghanistan, and he has spoken out on many other military issues.

Is this very public general encroaching on the terrain of politicians? Is he overstepping his authority? These questions are on the minds of many.

While Gen. Hillier is undoubtedly charting a new course for Canada's military leaders, his actions remain in keeping with basic principles delineating the respective roles of generals and their civilian masters. Moreover, comparison of his actions to those of top generals in other democracies suggests he is well within accepted parameters...

...if some Canadians think Gen. Hillier has been too vocal, treading on the politicians' turf — especially in his recent musings about the length of time required to establish an effective Afghan army — they should consider some of the public comments of Sir Richard Dannatt, head of the British Army. Gen. Dannatt has waded deeply into foreign policy debates and domestic politics. He has openly questioned the British military's involvement in Iraq and has linked Britain's "difficulties around the world" to its presence in Iraq. An evangelical Christian, Gen. Dannatt has expressed his concern about the decline of Christian values in Britain, which he claims has allowed Islamic extremism to flourish [emphasis added]. He has criticized the Bush administration's recent positioning on Iran, saying, "Dialogue and negotiation make eminent sense and military posturing doesn't."

Gen. Dannatt is well over the political-military dividing line. Yet he keeps his job, and the British press has labelled him "the honest general." He makes Gen. Hillier look positively cautious...

Gen. Hillier has chosen to be a public figure at the top of an important national institution. He is a passionate promoter of, and advocate for, all things military. He is an effective communicator with an astounding ability to connect with the rank and file, the general public and the media. Canada has probably never had a senior military officer with such profile and such common touch.

By contrast, in the two decades before Gen. Hillier's appointment, chiefs of the defence staff were hardly known to the public. That is how governments of the day wanted things. The CDS tended to be cast in the mould of deputy ministers: powerful figures operating behind the scenes but rarely in the public space, except for ceremonial duties. The position reflected the realities of the Canadian Forces; this was the era of military downsizing and budget-cutting. It was also a period of deep-seated morale and image problems for the Canadian Forces, stemming from the infamous Somalia scandal. The Forces were in serious decline as an institution, with a tarnished image. There wasn't a positive story for senior military leaders to tell the public, if they had wanted to do so.

Things are now much different. The CF is experiencing a renaissance and growing by several thousand personnel. Its budget is being increased radically by Canadian standards, by $18-billion in the next half-decade. It is re-equipping itself and becoming an operationally focused post-Cold War force that can act as a key instrument of our foreign policy and national security. The war in southern Afghanistan is its largest and most challenging deployment in decades.

This is a new era for Canada's military, calling for a new kind of leadership. Today, there is a compelling narrative to convey to the public about the Forces. And Gen. Hillier is creatively seizing the opportunity...

Undoubtedly, Gen. Hillier is redefining the role of the CDS. But it is hard to argue he is overstepping his authority or getting ahead of government policy.

Rebuilding the military, and restoring its image, have been objectives of both the previous Liberal and the current Conservative governments. Gen. Hillier has been working assiduously on this project for two prime ministers, advancing the government's agenda.

The Afghanistan mission adds another vital dimension to Gen. Hillier's public role. The Canadian Forces, for the first time in decades, are fighting a war. More than 70 CF personnel have lost their lives and hundreds have been wounded in the Afghan war. When the military is at war, it should come as no surprise that Canadians are hearing more from the generals. Indeed, in such times, the public should want to hear directly from the military leadership to get the unvarnished facts. It is not Gen. Hillier's job to stay "on message," as some have implied. That would be inappropriate. His job is to lay out the facts, both behind closed doors and, to a degree, in public.

The CDS would be crossing the line — wading inappropriately into the political domain — if he advocated publicly a specific policy direction.

Gen. Hillier has more influence over defence and foreign policy than any CDS in Canadian history. He literally wrote the defence policy for Paul Martin's government, and he is the architect of the Kandahar mission. Some may find that troubling, but elected leaders have chosen to give him that influence [emphasis added].

Nevertheless, Gen. Hillier has been careful not to advocate publicly a particular future course of action in Afghanistan, notwithstanding the serious implications for the Canadian Forces. He has tried to explain to Canadians what the military is doing in Afghanistan, and the nature of the challenge they face in that country. That is within his mandate. Does this more vocal type of military leadership pose challenges for political leaders? Absolutely — this is new terrain for Canada. But it is a challenge our political class needs to accept as a new normality. It is not unusual in other democracies for military leaders to say things in public that make life awkward for politicians, or that appear to civilians to be uncomfortably pro-military. This is especially so when the military is at war...

...successive governments have asked the CF to do some very heaving lifting, and to incur significant sacrifices, in Afghanistan. Those realities both require and produce a different kind of military leadership from what we have had in the recent past. It is a leadership that is much more visible and acts as an unapologetic champion for the institution of the Canadian Forces and the men and women of the Forces. Gen. Hillier is the first generation of this new leadership. He will not be the last.

Eugene Lang is co-author (with Janice Stein) of The Unexpected War: Canada in Kandahar and was chief of staff to two ministers of national defence.

Meanwhile, Prof. Stein "will be online Monday from 2-3 p.m. EST" (Nov. 19) at the Globe and Mail:

Janice Stein on Afghanistan, politicians and Gen. Hillier
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071117.wlivestein1119/BNStory/specialComment/

Questions or comments can be submitted in advance and will be "moderated".

Mark
Ottawa
 
An architect draws up plans and works with his engineers & troops to execute the will of his masters.....

If the Government did not want us to be there, we would all be home right now.

Canadian foreign policy is the "author" of our foray into a combat mission.
 
More on Gen. Dannatt's views, though not made public by him:

Our forces can't carry on like this, says General Sir Richard Dannatt
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/18/nforces118.xml&DCMP=EMC-new_18112007

Along with the view of the UK Defence Secretary:

The Armed Forces are safe in my hands
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/11/18/do1805.xml

Mark
Ottawa
 
It's high time we had people at the top who stand up and speak up, not in a partisan political way (officers should be careful NEVER to align themselves with any political party lest they be tarred with the brush of slime that eventually hits all parties: Gens MacKenzie and Dallaire take note...), but in a professional forthright and honest manner. The CDS is not just another senior civil servant, despite the fact that this is how the office has historically been regarded, by both the incumbents and Canadians at large. He has far too much life and death responsibility in his hands to just sit quiet like a good little office boy. The trick is for the CDS to keep the freedom of action and expression that the current CDS has, without threatening the government's comfort level too much, because then he may not be CDS much longer.

I hope that Gen Hillier is not a flash in the pan, but a trail breaker for a new approach to senior leadership in our forces. Too bad he comes along so late in my service...I wonder what we could have done if we had guys like him back in the days of Yugo and Somalia.

Cheers
 
pbi said:
The CDS is not just another senior civil servant, despite the fact that this is how the office has historically been regarded, by both the incumbents and Canadians at large. He has far too much life and death responsibility in his hands to just sit quiet like a good little office boy.

Good point, too bad the press contributes to this perception...
 
Greymatters:  As the CDS said in July 2005 under the Martin government after the new Kandahar mission had been announced:

"We're not the public service of Canada, we're not just another department. We are the Canadian Forces and our job is to be able to kill people."

And, as noted at the time, by a "progressive" writer:

Paul Martin appointed Hillier. Both Harper and Layton  [emphasis added] have praised Hillier's comments. Where is the party for the 77 percent of us who want Canada to be known for our peace-keeping and conflict resolution instead of combat?

See the whole piece:
http://thetyee.ca/Views/2005/07/20/ToughGeneral/

Mark
Ottawa
 
Just a quick question out of curiosity ? to be appointed CDS does that automatically mean you get bumped to full blown Gen ? has their ever been a CDS that skipped a rank ? (went from MGen to Gen ?) or has their ever been a CDS who was not a full General ?  If anyone has time on their hands, as i said just curious.


cheers

PV
 
General = Rank

CDS = Appointment


To my knowledge, it isn't indicated anywhere that the CDS must hold the rank of General.  In theory, the gov't could name Pte Bloggins on his BMQ in St Jean as CDS.

There have been instances (particulary in wartime) of people being jumped ranks for promotion (I seem to recall someone who jumped from Maj to Brigadier in WWII).  In peacetime, the promotion policy tends to be slower and more bureaucratic.

 
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