The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread

[Kirkhill]

I think you are right GGBoy

And bossi the Americans are currently building them but have cut back on their order.   There might be an opportunity to make a deal there.   Maybe we could eliminate some of their bells and whistles.

There is already a discussion about this going on on these threads.

http://army.ca/forums/threads/23675.0.html   Canadian Marines
http://army.ca/forums/threads/18459.0.html JSS project

This also going to impact discussions about Hercs, A400s, C17s and Il76s as well as the Cormorant/Cyclone debate - which helicopter do we buy for the army that trains on land and operates from the sea? - gonna get interestin' ;D

http://army.ca/forums/threads/22082.60.html - Cyclone/Cormorant
http://army.ca/forums/threads/22920.0.html - Herc Replacement - Tactical
http://army.ca/forums/threads/26360.0.html - Herc Replacement - Strategic
http://army.ca/forums/threads/23889.0.html - Herc Replacement - SAR(fixed wing)

 

[ArmyRick]

I like hearing some one in charge who is telling the public what we need.

Can't be a peacekeeper if you are not ready for war.

Also, nothing in what he said goes agaisnt the MGS. He wants a rapid deployable force that can project power. A tank weighs 30-60 tonnes. The MGS weighs 20 tonnes or so. How many more do you think you cram into a JSS type ship? Besides the CDS said as CLS that tanks are not needed any more.

I tried telling some one during PT today that their is going to be big changes in the CF in the next few years and they simply replied "every CDS says the same thing"
Really? Who was the last CDS to mention such noticable changes?

Wait for it. In five years there will be some big changes in the CF.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Tanks have protection MGS' don't but thats for another thread.

 

[ArmyRick]

Tanks are going, wether we like it or not, thats also been stated on other threads.

 

[Slim]

Well after reading the newspaper articles above, all I can say is...Wow...!

I hope it happens...The CDS certainly has my vote 

Slim

 

[silentbutdeadly]

damn he is going to be a very busy general in the near future, kinda makes you get all warm and fuzzy , until the budget comes out!

 

[Korus]

There's some exciting things proposed, but being the pesimist that I am, I'm having trouble getting my hopes up.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

"Tanks are going, wether we like it or not, thats also been stated on other threads."

NOTHING in the military is in stone.

 

[ArmyRick]

I wouldn't count on seeing tanks because Hillier himself has made it clear he doesn't want them.

 

[Zipper]

"Tanks are going, wether we like it or not, thats also been stated on other threads."

NOTHING in the military is in stone.

I wouldn't count on seeing tanks because Hillier himself has made it clear he doesn't want them.

I'm surprised at that, being Armoured himself. However, he'll quickly realize how much their needed. Maybe not right away, but down the line...

There's some exciting things proposed, but being the pessimist that I am, I'm having trouble getting my hopes up.

I agree. I'm actually surprised he's given this much detail. Until the budget comes out and is approved, nothing in what he says is actually going to happen. Not to mention that policy review (that he is writting) will have to be passed by the government.

Otherwise, I'm impressed at what he has in mind. Making the Canadian Forces over into a more Marine (US or Brit) style org. makes some sense.

 

[Slim]

Otherwise, I'm impressed at what he has in mind. Making the Canadian Forces over into a more Marine (US or Brit) style org. makes some sense.

I agree. It should have been done years ago.

Cheers

Slim

 

[Wizard of OZ]

The MGS may be a political pill he is swallowing in order to get the other things off of the wish list needed to better the forces. Tanks can be bought at any time and little training would be needed the helos and aircraft and ships would years away from completion and have to be pushed through when the iron is hot.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Just to follow on what the Wizard of Oz said, the following thought process makes sense:
1)   Say what is necessary to get the job
2)   Say what is necessary to get the support of the politicians who sign the cheques
3)   Obtain buy-in for an expeditionary force structure
4)   Obtain funding based on new relationship to fix the rot (spare parts and emergency maintenance)
5)   Use political leverage to reform and downsize NDHQ
6)   Recruit and train to fit new structure
7)   Procure all expeditionary support equipment (LPD, Tactical Lift Helicopters, AOR, New Air Lift, etc.)
8 )   Prove model is capable
9)   Propose addition of Armoured Add-on Units as the final piece of the land forces puzzle....perhaps with a different political party in power who would be more amenable to such an addition.

Well, we can always hope....



Matthew.    

 

[Zipper]

Just to follow on what the Wizard of Oz said, the following thought process makes sense:
1)   Say what is necessary to get the job
2)   Say what is necessary to get the support of the politicians who sign the cheques
3)   Obtain buy-in for an expeditionary force structure
4)   Obtain funding based on new relationship to fix the rot (spare parts and emergency maintenance)
5)   Use political leverage to reform and downsize NDHQ
6)   Recruit and train to fit new structure
7)   Procure all expeditionary support equipment (LPD, Tactical Lift Helicopters, AOR, New Air Lift, etc.)
8 )   Prove model is capable
9)   Propose addition of Armoured Add-on Units as the final piece of the land forces puzzle....perhaps with a different political party in power who would be more amenable to such an addition.

Not a bad way to look at it. I especially like number 5. Stream line HQ's into fewer, and "hopefully" downsize NDHQ while he's at it. Maybe even militarize to a greater extent again.

After thinking more on his ideas. I wonder why he said that the heavy lift (C-17, etc) would probably not be an option? I'm surprised he wants to go into large scale troop transports for the Navy, but not also take into the mix our own ability to get large quantities of troops and equipment into hot spots away from water (like AfganistaAfghanistan can continue to "rent/beg" these things from the US and Russia, but it doesn't make sense in a sort of way.

As well. These ideas are seemingly to form us into a more "Marine like" (US or Brit) structure, but not turn us into Marines themselves. Which I hope I am interrupting correctly?

Now last point for now. Where does the Airforce fall into all of this tactically? I would assume that air support has been thought about, but no word of it has happened yet. Any thoughts?

 

[George Wallace]

I've got a feeling that we won't see everything that we require all at once, but brought in over a lengthy period of time.  Don't rule anything out.  At the same time don't rule anything in  ;D as it may be too soon to tell how or even what the new plans will be.

GW

 

[Zipper]

True.

The whole budget could flop and we'll be back into an election again. Groan...

 

[Wizard of OZ]

Don't think it will be the budget that brings this government down think the same sex marriage stuff and kyoto accord may play into it soon.  I think it may actually give the liberals a majority if it happens.  Scary i know but then we may be screwed over even worse.  Only time will tell. 

 

[Slim]

I still won't vote for them...In fact I would be surprised if any here do...But that's just me.

As for the current CDS, I say God bless the man and every success to him...

Slim

P.S. It would not surprise me in the least to find that he is registered here...Perhaps under a less-attention grabbing name...?! You never know...

 

[pbi]

I recently read a truly excellent magazine interview done with Gen Hillier when he was the CLS. I'll try and find it later today and post extracts, but he says some things that IMHO really needed to be said. Now-you can accuse him of just blowing hot air, and you can demand to see the money, but the point for me is that I can never recall a CLS who spoke out as clearly as Gen Hillier has, and that has to count for something.

Cheers

 

[tomahawk6]

The CF is not into the rapid deployment business so being able to deploy forces with a robust sealift capability would be a good trade off for C-17's. If there was a need to get troops and equipment to a theater quickly airlift can be hired.