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The Gagetown Thread- Merged

Who in their right mind would leave a weapon in a vehicle unattended. I smell a rat and maybe an inside job, but too late now, the pistol is gone. 4 months ago?  ::)

Pistols are easly tucked away on one's person, and if the vehicle broken down and left unattended, I don't think there would be one nose out of joint if the pistol was smartly and discretely carried on one's person, out of sight, as one is on duty at the time.

Irregardless of reasons, there has been on dirty giant great big act of irresponsiibility by an INDIVIDUAL, and he/she should be made an example of, no matter of his/her rank.

There is no reason the pistol should have been left in the vehicle, no reason at all.

Wes
 
A high-powered 9mm pistol?  There is worse stuff on Jane and Finch then a worn-out old Browning.  Let's not act like somebody is running around with a death-ray gun.
 
Too right Infanteer, call it dramatic creativity from the media. Key words get people to read, and 'high powered' is on of them, perhaps they edited it from Browning High Power, not knowing it is the nomenclature of the weapon in question. A transforamtion from actual information to civvy journo speak, all to catch one's eye.

Cheers,

Wes
 
Because I have to show loyalty to my RSM (Residential Sergeant Major), I will admit that I was thinking the exact same thing as my better half.

For those willing to do the math, the incident happened 4 months ago (January - 4 months = August-ish). Since they didn't provide an exact date, it could have in all likelihood happened during summer training. But (and it's a big but), "young officer"'s in training (AFAIK) don't carry pistol's, so the likelihood of it being a Phase student (yes, I know it is DP1, but old habits die hard) is unlikely. But, seeing as how it is usually officer's and Sgt's and up that usually are issued pistols (as DS), there is also a good chance that it is a member of my mess that lost it as well  ::)

News of a weapon going missing usually spreads like wildfire (for the "well d'uh!!!!" reasons), and I hadn't heard Boo about it. So I smell a cover-up, not the normal Inquisition that happens when it is a member of the unwashed masses (students or OR's).

I love the gun-shop owner's comments about the affair: I can't say that I have ever seen a trigger lock (on an issue weapon) in the whole time I have been in, and the only box they ever go in is a barrack box (usually "ghost" locked because there is nothing worse than trying to get your weapon out of your barrack box when there is no power, and there is a fire drill. I have heard of guys trudging out their barrack box overseas because of this (and when it's full of Pivo, it can get heavy  8) ).

Al
 
I've learned to stay away from the "What if..." questions but here is a very possible scenario:

You' re on ex and for some reason you have to drive by yourself civyside (case in point I was in Beachburg during Stalwart Guardian this summer (40 km south of Petawawa)). Now you are issued a C-7 and of course dutifully take it with you. Now somewhere along the way from point 'A' to point 'B' that hamsteak and mustard sauce IMP hits you like Montezuma's revenge. The only bathroom is at a public restaurant along the highway. How does one run to the washroom with a rifle without looking lie a deranged gunman?
 
>"A stolen handgun is a serious, serious crime," said  Sgt. Paul Boudreau, the RCMP's coordinator of Crime Stoppers.

I guess armed robbery must be a serious, serious, serious crime.

Mowing someone down accidentally while dragging down a city street must be a serious, serious, serious, serious crime.

Trading in narcotics which ruin the lives of people and their families, not to mention the people and families afflicted by drug-driven crime, must be a serious, serious, serious, serious, serious crime.

What a jackass.  Federal departments should issue a public affairs bulletin forbidding the use of adjectives in any publicly accessible communication, lest any more Officer Nigel Tufnel's dial their comments to 11 and leave us nowhere further to go.
 
a powerful nine-millimetre handgun

Oh god!

I have half a mind to say:"Good riddance". Very callous indeed.

Cover up? What would be gained by making this public? One pistol missing, while still very unfortunate, is not the end of the world, unless you are the one who lost it. My perception is that an isolated incident of a missing pistol is barely worth space in a local paper. Unless you are trying to discredit the Forces.

Don't get me wrong, if 1 or more C-7's went missing, I'd raise an eyebrow and wonder.

 
Although we can all speculate as to who might be most likely to be the "victim" of this theft, I would hope that in this day and age this situation is not another example of a cover up to protect a soldiers career or rank.

Lately we have seen Lcol's being charged with negligent discharges and Generals with pocketing CF money, so when it comes to any crime it shouldn't matter who you are.................you pay the piper.
 
The gun dissapeared from a vehicle parked near a highway during a training exercise. Unable to recover the gun, military officials have gone public with the possible theft, alerting N.B. Crime Stoppers.
Well, this smells of several things:  Careless senior officer on EX (Perhaps Milcon or Arcon), inattentive CP operator (insert any trade) who had a pistol issued, and most dastardly of all, a MP.  It states a 9mm high power pistol, but not what type.

This speculation is getting a lot like Pro Line Loto.
 
Don't get me wrong, if 1 or more C-7's went missing, I'd raise an eyebrow and wonder.

We should not act surprised.....haven't weapons in the CF gones missing before? Did not an old guard get killed years ago in Ontario where a lot of weapons went bye bye?
 
Ex-Dragoon said:
We should not act surprised.....haven't weapons in the CF gones missing before? Did not an old guard get killed years ago in Ontario where a lot of weapons went bye bye?

Wasn't that in Quebec?
 
Unless I'm the only one who sees the relevance of this hitting the media now (hello!!!!! 52 gun related shooting deaths in Toronto in 2005!!!! Liberals planning on banning handguns!!!!!).....

Based on what I have heard/read, I suspect one of two things: 1) As already pointed out, an inside job, perhaps with a view of "sticking it to" someone rather than wanting a shot-out 9mm, but I'm sure if it was for more nefarious reasons, I'm sure it would still garner a few bucks on the black market. 2) Seeing as how that there are more side-roads into the training area than there are chins on Mrs Rita McNeil, it wouldn't be hard for a civilian to have gained access to a military vehicle that was parked near the edge of the training area (again assuming this is where it transpired), taken a look into an unattended (which doesn't mean much, as the soldier(s) could have been 5 metres away when this happened) vehicle, and Yoink!!! pistol is AWOL.

Anybody who says that they have had 100% positive control on their weapon at all times that they have been in the care of one is FOS. It just happens to be this poor sap's misfortune to have had this happen to them. There is a somewhat famous story about Colin Powell (though I did a Google search and came up with nothing.... might have been someone else, but the story rings true): As a young officer, he lost his weapon, and when he finally went in to see his CO to admit to it, his CO told him that a young child had found it. Powell's heart dropped. As it turns out, he had left it on his bunk, someone found it, gave it to the CO, and the CO made up the story to put the fear of God into Powell's heart. I suspect it worked. A story from my Petawawa days: there was an older Cpl who just couldn't remember to keep his weapon with him (while in Wainwright on ex). After the third strike, they shipped him off to Club Ed for a day or so as punishment. After that he fashioned a "bracelet" from his sling and had it fastened around his wrist all the time. It doesn't matter if it actually happened: it has stuck with me for 17 years, and I have still forgotten my weapon when hopping off my vehicle, in Troop Leader's carrier after orders, in barrack box, etc.

I think when you think about it, the CF is pretty good at not losing weapons, or is very good at covering it up. I can only think of a few cases where people have "lost" a weapon (permanently, not just dropped it in the weeds and then found it later on). There are more than a few stories from overseas where people have left their weapon on the hood of their vehicle, turret, etc, only to have someone spot it before they left the camp (or in one case, fall at the feet of the gate guard). Shit truly does happen.

Al
 
kincanucks said:
Wasn't that in Quebec?

Could be.....been ages but this incident made me remember it. Not sure if anything was ever recovered.
 
If it's the pistol I'm thinking of, (4 month time frame more or less puts it right, unless there was more then one pistol lost in gagetown at the end of august), I remember the day it was lost (Though I wasn't involved in anyway, I was just on the same ex, as were a lot of people).

On the subject of weapons security on the same exercise, it was when I realised the cultural differences between the army and the civvie world... after I walked past several people dripping wet and naked (I had forgotten a bath-towel, took a shower, and only had a hand towel, and couldn't be bothered to "cover up") carrying an automatic weapon... and no one blinked.

As the investigation is on-going, I'm not going to post any details then that in a public forum, just mention that at least from the second hand information I had, some people here are right in their guesses, some are way off.

It does irritate me though that the media portrays it as if some weapon of mass destruction was lost... it was a 9mm pistol... was the individual in question negligent? Extremely. Is loosing it an extremely bad thing? Yes. Is it that hard to get substantially more dangerous weapons on the black market with in the country already? Probably not. Would it spell doom for humanity if said weapon fell into the hands of Al Qaeda? I doubt they'd even want to waste their money buying one of our worn out brownings.
 
career_radio-checker said:
I've learned to stay away from the "What if..." questions but here is a very possible scenario:

You' re on ex and for some reason you have to drive by yourself civyside (case in point I was in Beachburg during Stalwart Guardian this summer (40 km south of Petawawa)). Now you are issued a C-7 and of course dutifully take it with you. Now somewhere along the way from point 'A' to point 'B' that hamsteak and mustard sauce IMP hits you like Montezuma's revenge. The only bathroom is at a public restaurant along the highway. How does one run to the washroom with a rifle without looking lie a deranged gunman?

This is one of the many reasons why we always have co-drivers.  If for whatever reason you ARE tasked to drive alone civy-side, be smart about it and hand off the weapon to someone else.

If all else fails, I'd much rather take a squat by the side of the highway than go running into Timmies with a rifle  8)
 
I read a early news report which stated the weapon was a Browning Hi-power 9 mm, serial number 8Txxxx.

http://server09.densan.ca/archivenews/060104/nbt/060104ao.htm

Military officials at the CFB Gagetown are looking for a "high-powered 9mm pistol" that was stolen from one of their vehicles Aug. 29.

The gun was taken during military exercises on Department of Defense property between Petersville and Welsford.

Military officials didn't return phone calls. Stolen guns are often used in violent crimes.

The serial number of the Browning pistol is 8T2238.

Crimestoppers is asking anyone with information to call 1-800-222-8477.



 
::)

I've been on Ex;s where C7's have been lost from Helicopters - another where C7's,C9's and a C6 lost from an assault water crossing.

A Pistol specifically 9mm No2 Mk1* Inglis (Browning Hi-Power) is the LEAST of the CF's worries

Heck the 1997 Explosives theft of 14kg of C4 inc dets and time fuze did not even hit the papers (yes some guys in 1VP...)



-- I smell a BULLSHIT marketing ploy.
 
Infanteer said:
A high-powered 9mm pistol?  There is worse stuff on Jane and Finch then a worn-out old Browning.  Let's not act like somebody is running around with a death-ray gun.

Well- whats the real story here- the firepower (LOL) or the fact that a theft which never should have occured?
 
KevinB said:
-- I smell a BULLSHIT marketing ploy.

I smell a journalist who is just trying to stir the pot.  One need look no further than having a civy explain CIVY regulations WRT storage and transportation of firearms, while conviently not mentioning that those regulations do not apply to the military.
 
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