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The "Did Minister Sajjan 'Order' Sikh's To Be Airlifted?" Merged Thread

Sajjan figured out what the problem is. He's getting picked on (again) because he's wearing a turban.
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Played the racism card:

Sajjan calls allegations he instructed Canadian special forces to rescue Afghan Sikhs “utter BS”​

 
Rifleman62 said:
Played the racism card:

Sajjan calls allegations he instructed Canadian special forces to rescue Afghan Sikhs “utter BS”​

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Regardless of if he is playing the race card, he has a massive reputation of dishonesty and a lack of integrity.

He could argue that the sky was blue and I'd still need to look up and make sure myself.
 
Maxman1 said:
Hopefully that failed operation didn't cause Canadian citizens to be killed.
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We don’t know that, but we do know that someone whom the Canadian government ’said it was trying to help’ was killed years later (2023) while IRCC was allegedly ‘still doing its thing’ to help…

The Bread Guy said:
Latest: someone high up says it was "legal orders" ....
www.thecanadianpressnews.ca

Military was following 'legal orders' to try to rescue Afghan Sikhs, Gen. Eyre says

OTTAWA - The Canadian Armed Forces was following "legal orders" when it tried to rescue a group of Afghan Sikhs during the fall of Kabul three years ago, Chief of
www.thecanadianpressnews.ca www.thecanadianpressnews.ca
From the piece quoting the CDS:
View attachment 86284
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CDS is pretty clear. The ArchitectTM seems to be the one downplaying his part in directing the op. Perhaps his German isn’t very strong… Auftragstaktik
 
Jarnhamar said:
I sure bet Sajjan is happy with the timing of the CDS leak.

Waaaaaait a minute...
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Im Fine Fran Healy GIF by Travis
 
Jarnhamar said:
The CDS seems to disagree with Sajjan's creative story telling about the events.

Canadian military was following ‘legal orders’ to try to rescue Afghan Sikhs, Gen. Eyre says​

www.theglobeandmail.com

Canadian military was following ‘legal orders’ to try to rescue Afghan Sikhs, Gen. Eyre says

Chief of Defence Staff Gen. Wayne Eyre said the military had an ‘expansive list’ of people it was tasked to help
www.theglobeandmail.com www.theglobeandmail.com
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Like those way smarter than me have said elsewhere, if the Minister "suggests" something of some sort to a commander, no matter how it's worded, most would take it as an order - full stop. And as a former soldier, this Minister would/should have known that.
 
ModlrMike said:
Legal =/= correct or appropriate. It simply means that it comes from someone with legal authority, and that the order is not manifestly unlawful.
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Certainly. It’s also important to understand the legal relationship between MND and CAF as the narrative on this gets argued over. The lawful authority MND has to ‘direct’ CAF by virtue of s. 4 NDA could be relevant in understand where responsibility for this lies, and just as importantly, to call out any attempts to weasel out from responsibility.
 
So someone somewhere in the chain ordered the CAF to rescue Sikh foreigners. The former MND is saying it wasn't him. If it came from the CDS wouldn't he just take ownership?
 
Jarnhamar said:
So someone somewhere in the chain ordered the CAF to rescue Sikh foreigners. The former MND is saying it wasn't him. If it came from the CDS wouldn't he just take ownership?
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he said he didn't order it. This has already been covered earlier. Information from the minister is tantamount to being a very strong suggestion/order. Sajeen is an expert at using half truths to obfuscate issues.
 
Maxman1 said:
If the Minister makes a "request", it's not a request.
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Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest save these Sikhs?

Words have meanings and consequences. Whether you directly order someone to do something or not is irrelevant. Your subordinates will act to accomplish the tasks you frame as important. As the MND he should have know that, and as a someone holding a commission he should definitely have known that.
 
Ludoc said:
As the MND he should have know that, and as a someone holding a commission he should definitely have known that.
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And let's be real, IF he made it a suggestion (and not an actual order) he knew exactly how it would be construed.

It's the same way Trudeau made suggestions to Butts when dealing with the SNC bit. Plausible deniability. Trudeau never "ordered" Butts to do anything.

These people aren't amateurs.
 
YZT580 said:
he said he didn't order it. This has already been covered earlier. Information from the minister is tantamount to being a very strong suggestion/order. Sajeen is an expert at using half truths to obfuscate issues.
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He had every opportunity to issue a stop drop if he felt that his information was being misconstrued.

He did not.
 
You know after reading of the Argument the then SECDEF MacNamara had with the the then CNO Burke.
And the number of time President Johnson use to call call up Battalion and Brigade commanders when they were actually engaged with troops in contact.
At least I thought well thank god that can't happen here.
I honestly am having a great deal of trouble wrapping my head around the concept of either the Minister or a senior civil servant interfering with an ongoing operation.
Especially of all people this particular Minister.
Who really should have known better.
And this excuse of maintaining civilian control is an incredibly bad excuse for what happened.
Civil control of the military means on tactical level. Authorization of the plan , Oversight and support both logistical and in providing intelligence , Yes I have no problem with that.
It's how it should be. However changing operational goals and direction of the mission absolutely not while apparently they were already in country.
 
GK .Dundas said:
You know after reading of the Argument the then SECDEF MacNamara had with the the then CNO Burke.
And the number of time President Johnson use to call call up Battalion and Brigade commanders when they were actually engaged with troops in contact.
At least I thought well thank god that can't happen here.
I honestly am having a great deal of trouble wrapping my head around the concept of either the Minister or a senior civil servant interfering with an ongoing operation.
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Try reading Michael Gordon's "Cobra II: The Inside Story of the Invasion and Occupation of Iraq" if you want to get some insight into Rumsfeld's meddling before and during Iraq

🍻
 
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