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The current navy uniform

Ex-Dragoon said:
Army and Air Force members serving onboard HMC Ships must wear NCD's

I have yet to see an Air Det wear NCDs.

Aircrew wear flight suits, the techs wear NCDs with Air Force slip ons.

There's no point issuing NCDs to aircrew since our flight suits satisfy all the flame retardant requirements already, the Air Force workdress unfortunately does not.
 
Aircrew wear flight suits, the techs wear NCDs with Air Force slip ons.

LOL not our techs only ever seen these guys wear coveralls, not saying it does not happen but my last 3 CPF postings our air types were never in NCDs.

 
Ex-Dragoon said:
Aircrew wear flight suits, the techs wear NCDs with Air Force slip ons.

LOL not our techs only ever seen these guys wear coveralls, not saying it does not happen but my last 3 CPF postings our air types were never in NCDs.

Right you are, allow me to clarify. The techs are issued NCDs, whether or not they wear them is another discussion. I've seen them getting off the bus in Shearwater after disembarking and they all had NCDs on.
 
Inch said:
LOL not our techs only ever seen these guys wear coveralls, not saying it does not happen but my last 3 CPF postings our air types were never in NCDs.

Right you are, allow me to clarify. The techs are issued NCDs, whether or not they wear them is another discussion. I've seen them getting off the bus in Shearwater after disembarking and they all had NCDs on.

Were they just coming from a ship conducting WUPS and Sea Training made them wear NCD's?
 
Ok, Ok.

Firefighters wear their Firefighting Coveralls always as they are ready to pounce on a fire 24/7.
The Aircrew (Pilots, AirNAV, AESOP) always wear their flightsuits.
The Ground Crew wear their flightsuits during AirOps, but some of the ground crew will, from time to time, wear their NCD's. At least that is my experience on the ship's that I've been on.

At the end of the day, if the laundry is backed up, they have their NCD's and are able to change into a clean uniform if they want to.
 
FSTO said:
Right you are, allow me to clarify. The techs are issued NCDs, whether or not they wear them is another discussion. I've seen them getting off the bus in Shearwater after disembarking and they all had NCDs on.
Were they just coming from a ship conducting WUPS and Sea Training made them wear NCD's?

No, it was the guys getting back from the Toronto this summer. Plus I've also seen the techs from the Montreal and VDQ Dets with them on prior to deploying for SNFL.
 
Originally I had intended to wait until I had worked in naval combats aboard ship before actually making public my thoughts on the naval uniform.  However, since I posted quite a lot on the army's uniform, it's irrational to keep biting my tongue about the navy uniform.  So I'm going to put my ideas out there & see what others think.  (Hell, it's better to be shut down here for a stupid idea than to have my staff roll their eyes at my crazy uniform ideas when I'm an admiral!)

My concept of the navy uniform is one which might be called a 'service uniform:' a single uniform which is suitable for both the field & the parade square (& walking out).  (Please correct me if this is the wrong definition of 'service dress.') 

My rationale for a single uniform rests on my limited personal experience of wearing the various uniforms, the usual environment in which they are worn, &--here it goes!--aesthetics.  I shall address the 'where they are worn' aspect first. 

As the shipboard environment is definitely not like the field of the army, the uniform designed to be worn there will be significantly different: as many generations of naval uniform have shown.  Evidence shows that, more or less, the naval working uniform (heretoforth referred to as 'undress' uniform) is extremely close in cut etc. to the naval dress uniform.  Contemporarily, we can see that the NCDs are, with the exception of the jacket, the same in cut as the dress uniform.  And I also cite that almost each undress uniform of the navy has become the dress uniform of the next generation of sailors.

I would posit that the various corps of the army followed this sort of succession until the 20th century when camouflage split, for the most part, the garrison uniform from the field uniform.  Unlike the army, however, the navy has never required camouflage (other than some stripes on ships) thus the uniform has not drastically changed since the ~1700s. 

In regards to my personal experience with the various current uniforms, I have mentioned much in previous posts.  In general I have found the NCDs to be more confortable than the dress uniforms (either no1s or no3s since they're made of similar componenents), and I've found the dress uniform (no1 or no 1c) to be more aesthetically pleasing than the NCDs. 

So that brings me to propose a single uniform for the navy, one which may be worn various ways in order to suit the conditions but which fills the 'requirements' for a dress (ceremonial) & undress (working) uniform.  (Mess dress is still separate, however.)  The changes may be explained in several steps so as to let it be understood better:

First, get rid of the no 3s order of uniform.  This not only takes away 4 orders of rig & therefore simplifies what we may wear (I honestly think we don't need a number to tell us what taking off our jacket is) but it also makes the sweater & short-sleeved shirt oboslete, thus reducing the amount of kit we need.  I find that the naval combats look just as 'professional' as any no3 order, and certainly more so than the sweater 'n' tie combo (in my opinion, though this certainly doesn't prove anything). 

Second, replace the NCD jacket with one styled as is the current reefer jacket.  Same fire-retardant material, etc, but cut like the reefer.  I can conceieve that the six buttons may be a problem, but I have no experience with this so perhaps someone can fill me in on the hazards of catching things aboard ship.  When rigged in antiflash gear, the collar & lapels could be flipped up, so this will present no problem.

Thirdly, replace the NCD shirt with a white tunic which could be worn like the current high-collared tunic but also like a regular shirt.  I think a good illustration of what I am proposing is the RN officers' summer white uniform.  Or perhaps picture the 3b shirt with long sleeves & optional hooks on the collar.  In the same vein, the NCD trousers would also be white & lighter weight.

Fourth, the sea boots would either remain as they are or be changed into a Wellington-type boot reaching just above the calf.  I believe there are some issues with dunking one's trouser cuffs in water all the time whereas the army gets to blouse their combats.  These were also worn by gunnery officers (& perhaps others) in days of yore.  The boot is reminiscent of the 'licorice legs' (black leather gaiters) worn by guard officers.  Yes, this would even be worn in summer, no more white shoes. 

Now, you see I've changed the NCDs completely in colour (& the boots & jacket in cut as well.)  I think that my suggested NCDs are, more than the current ones, fit for parade.  They look like the 'half-whites' or 'Yankee service dress' of the RN & USN, respectively (with wellingtons).  During hot weather or indoors, the reefer jacket would be removed & the white tunic untucked. 

I think the first issue that comes to mind is: wouldn't white become horribly soiled from working & then be unsuitable for parade.  Yes, but this is easily solved by ensuring sailors are issued enough sets so that one may have a clean uniform for parade/walking out.  Also, the issue of coveralls for those with particularly dirty jobs & choosing an easily-washed white cloth should solve most problems.  Perhaps a very light khaki might be used in place of white.  Admittedly, I wait to be corrected by someone who knows more about the chances of getting dirty aboard ship & the ease of washing the NCDs.

This combat uniform, unlike the CADPATS, could be easily 'dressed up' with medals & accoutrements (& a tie) for parades & undressed for work.  With a simple pinning of medals or buckling of a sword belt, this uniform transcends what was previously a larger boundary between working & ceremonial uniforms.  It also permits adaptations to the season by simply removing the reefer jacket.  In short it simplifies the kit which must be carried by sailors & I think is as well suited to the shipboard environment as the current NCD uniform. 

For clarity, the rig can be divided into 4 orders:
1. blue dress, with tie, medals, weapons, accoutrements;
2. blue undress, without tie, medals, weapons, accoutrements;
3. white dress, without reefer jacket, tunic untucked, with medals, weapons, accoutrements;
4. white undress,  without reefer jacket, tunic untucked, without medals, weapons, accoutrements.
5. also blue & white mess dress, as they are now.

Finally, I think this rig does fufill the criteria which were laid out in the 'redcoat dress uniforms' thread: 

1. I think this unform not only identifies people as sailors, as good military sense and the laws and usages of war require;

2. Since only the colour & some cut has been altered, I would logically assume that it still protects sailors soldiers, in so far as can be done, from the elements and, as for bio-chemical agents, I think the NBCD suit could fit over this very nicely;

3. This uniform is very much based on the traditional navy uniform (which is quite similar between all nations & is therefore more of a 'navy uniform' than a 'Canadian navy uniform' or a 'Japanese navy uniform,' etc.) and therefore displays military values of tradition & practicality (as it is based on a workdress).  (Perhaps I have mistaken the appropriate values.)
 
Well I don't have time to write much right now but I can definitely tell that you have never been on a ship. Dress uniforms are dressy for obvious reasons and work uniforms are used for work. Would love to see someone show up for divies in paint covered uniform with medals.
 
Sailing Instructor said:
My concept of the navy uniform is one which might be called a 'service uniform:' a single uniform which is suitable for both the field & the parade square (& walking out).  (Please correct me if this is the wrong definition of 'service dress.') 

Not even close.  The DEU is referred to as "service dress" in the regs; it is for parades and walking out only.  Even in WW II, Service Dress was not for the field, beginning in 1939.
 
sledge said:
Well I don't have time to write much right now but I can definitely tell that you have never been on a ship. Dress uniforms are dressy for obvious reasons and work uniforms are used for work. Would love to see someone show up for divies in paint covered uniform with medals.

What he said.
 
The past decade has seen quite a change regarding the number of issues of dress.

Regarding the Navy, we are now permitted to wear NCD's to and from work. When I first joined, you had to travel to/from work in your 3's (Salt n Peppers) and change into your NCD's.

The Army got rid of the Garrison Dress and now utilize Combats/CADPAT for work and walking out dress.

At the end of the day, less orders of dress means savings of funds that can be re-allocated elsewhere. Definitely a bonus these days.
 
The reason the Air Force gets blue stitching and t-shirts is because CADPAT is replacing the old 3-E work dress. They wanted to keep something distinctly Air Force on it. As far as i know the Navy is not having their salt & peppers replaced with CADPAT so there hasn't been a special issue of CADPAT accoutrements

Can anybody confirm or deny this ? sure would be nice.

regards

PV
 
As far as i know the Navy is not having their salt & peppers replaced with CADPAT so there hasn't been a special issue of CADPAT accoutrement's.

I've yet to hear anything and do not anticipate that the Navy will ever choose to replace the salt & peppers order of dress with CADPAT or anything else. When it comes to Naval Dress, the Navy appears to continue to stay on the side of tradition. They may modernize their uniforms, but they do so in a fashion that reflects older Navy styles.

As for CADPAT, personnel in the Navy who work in Army units or by nature of their job (Base Defence Forces, Range Staff, deployed OPS,  etc) are the only personnel permitted to draw CADPAT.
 
Navalsnpr said:
I've yet to hear anything and do not anticipate that the Navy will ever choose to replace the salt & peppers order of dress with CADPAT or anything else. When it comes to Naval Dress, the Navy appears to continue to stay on the side of tradition. They may modernize their uniforms, but they do so in a fashion that reflects older Navy styles.

As for CADPAT, personnel in the Navy who work in Army units or by nature of their job (Base Defence Forces, Range Staff, deployed OPS,   etc) are the only personnel permitted to draw CADPAT.

What about NBP personel that are wearing the old OD combats ? Will the change over to CADPAT ?
 
Currently NLBP personnel wear Black Tactical Coveralls for employment. During their time in the gulf, these coveralls were just to warm to wear, therefore they opted for a quick fix and chose primarily the green overalls that are thiner and when they ran out of those or couldn't get the sizes they required, they went with OD Combats.

I'm sure that during operations in normal climates, they will remain with the Black Tactical Coveralls.
 
Well, my inquiry was more so directed towards the Airforce end of things but...

PV
 
Navalsnpr said:
Currently NLBP personnel wear Black Tactical Coveralls for employment. During their time in the gulf, these coveralls were just to warm to wear, therefore they opted for a quick fix and chose primarily the green overalls that are thiner and when they ran out of those or couldn't get the sizes they required, they went with OD Combats.

I'm sure that during operations in normal climates, they will remain with the Black Tactical Coveralls.
Since I am in charge of NBP training on the West Coast, here is the skinny:

We will continue to wear the dark blue coveralls in temperate waters, when we go to tropical climes we will wear a tan L/W coveralls. I wore them while we were in Singapore at the start of Dec. They are still warm but a little more comfortable than the dark blues.
For info we are getting a tactical vest, new radios, boonie hats, new boots and a new holster for the sig sauer.

Also do not be surprised if we go back to Salt and Peppers for coming to a from work as we get closer to 2010 which is the 100 anniversary of the RCN.
 
Good to hear that the west coast is procurring additional equipment for the NLBP teams. Definitely something that is required. Hopfully this is something that is occurring on both coasts.

 
Agreed I hope the teams get the new equipment of this coast as well.

and....
Sledge said:
Well I don't have time to write much right now but I can definitely tell that you have never been on a ship. Dress uniforms are dressy for obvious reasons and work uniforms are used for work. Would love to see someone show up for divies in paint covered uniform with medals.

FTSO said:
What he said.

Agreed guys.
 
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