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The Bio-Science Officer Merged Thread

Hi:
With regards to the pilot trade the MSc will help your application a bit (part of your score is based on your academics and the higher your education the more points you get).  With regards to the BioSci officer the MSc will be an advantage.  
BMOQs run at different times during the year.  (Sept, Jan, April-MAy and June)
 
rohitk said:
Oh I understand that ... I was actually curious as to whether more qualified candidates get to jump ahead of the line in terms of those waiting to receive offers... the recruiter online said they had 0 positions and several hundred files waiting for the position to open up .. so i was wondering whether a new and more qualified applicant would jump to the front of that waiting line...I'm assuming thats what they'd do since they'd want only the best candidates. But either way it sounds like a looong wait ... I hope to get my application in during the summer, once my knee is all healed up.

I think your education will help you most definitely, as others have already mentioned, it will help increase your score.  I have an MA and I think it has helped me in the recruiting process.
I got my call mid April and was made a conditional offer for pilot, after about a year (I had to wait until the beginning of this fiscal year, which began 01 April and I think that is often the case for positions that have a supply that is low, relative to the demand).  My last obstacle is Aircrew Selection in Trenton and the following medicals in Toronto, which I will do in July.
I guess all I'm trying to say is stay the course.  If it's what you want, wait for it, because your education will most likely give you an edge over other DEO candidates.
Also, don't let them talk you into joining the artillery ;)  I hear they do that a lot.
 
I've really enjoyed reading the various topics on this site and find the posts and replies very informative. Thank you. 

Perhaps my question would be better suited to someone who works as or has a handle on the recruitment process for the Bioscience Officer position. I will be graduating near the end of the summer and recently (2 weeks ago) made formal application with the recruiting office for the Bioscience Officer position. Though the recruiting officer didn't know much about this particular speciality, he was able to tell me that 3 positions existed and explained the application process (CFAT, medical, interview etc).  I have researched this position extensively, mostly provided via CF site and here. Though I feel I have positioned myself well for a career with the CF, for example, I hold a Kinesiology (honours) degree, Masters of Science (Mechanical Engineering), 5 years applied ergonomics, industrial hygiene (IH), OH&S field experience and will have full ergonomics accreditation soon (application pending approval), I'm hoping to gain some additional insight about the recruiting process for this position.

Given that there only a few openings annually for the Bioscience Officer position, when would these positions typically become available? What I mean is, 3 positions available at once seems to be a high number but could it be that these became available recently which are to be filled soon with existing top ranked applicants?  If this is the case, what is the likelyhood of me missing the boat, since I'm now only going through the application process?   

As well, it would seem that applicants with cognant science degrees are wanting to pursue this profession even though the brochure identifies human factors / ergonomics / IH etc. as specific and desirable  backgrounds for this career (I believe one post mentioning holders of military backgrounds filled the position of Bioscience Officer). One question which arises concerns grooming those who are already employed by the CF.  Is it really important to the CF to have individuals with existing skill sets because the CF seems to invest an enormous amount of resources on upgrading and developing skills of individuals from within. 

Any insight would be helpful.

EG
         


   
 
Ergotracer said:
I've really enjoyed reading the various topics on this site and find the posts and replies very informative. Thank you.   

Perhaps my question would be better suited to someone who works as or has a handle on the recruitment process for the Bioscience Officer position. I will be graduating near the end of the summer and recently (2 weeks ago) made formal application with the recruiting office for the Bioscience Officer position. Though the recruiting officer didn't know much about this particular speciality, he was able to tell me that 3 positions existed and explained the application process (CFAT, medical, interview etc).  I have researched this position extensively, mostly provided via CF site and here. Though I feel I have positioned myself well for a career with the CF, for example, I hold a Kinesiology (honours) degree, Masters of Science (Mechanical Engineering), 5 years applied ergonomics, industrial hygiene (IH), OH&S field experience and will have full ergonomics accreditation soon (application pending approval), I'm hoping to gain some additional insight about the recruiting process for this position.

I can't really tell you much about the recruiting process except for my own story.  I applied to the Bioscience trade back in the Feb/March time frame (after a huge nightmare of nobody knowing the trade even existed), received my acceptable message in the summer and was in St-Jean in the fall.  Currently the Bioscience recruiting video is being redone, but I'm not sure when it'll show up on the CF site. 

Given that there only a few openings annually for the Bioscience Officer position, when would these positions typically become available? What I mean is, 3 positions available at once seems to be a high number but could it be that these became available recently which are to be filled soon with existing top ranked applicants?  If this is the case, what is the likelyhood of me missing the boat, since I'm now only going through the application process?   

Three positions is actually quite a few and your background would steer you towards the human factors positions in Toronto.  How the slots are filled will depend on when the next board sits.  Ask your recruiter if they know the date.

As well, it would seem that applicants with cognant science degrees are wanting to pursue this profession even though the brochure identifies human factors / ergonomics / IH etc. as specific and desirable  backgrounds for this career (I believe one post mentioning holders of military backgrounds filled the position of Bioscience Officer). One question which arises concerns grooming those who are already employed by the CF.  Is it really important to the CF to have individuals with existing skill sets because the CF seems to invest an enormous amount of resources on upgrading and developing skills of individuals from within. 

Prior military is big simply because when you're in a applicant pool where everybody has the same educational credits, that experience sets you apart from the crowd.  It's not really an issue of grooming, as there are few trades out there that actively seek out some of the degrees that Bioscience goes for.  As such, not many people currently in the CF are working through ergonomics courses or going for their CRSP.  The trade does have two post grad streams, so they actively look for people that either meet the graduate criteria, or have the ability to meet the entrance requirements.

If you have any other questions about the trade, feel free to send me a PM.

 
Hello everyone,

Many thanks DirtDigger for your time and kind reply. I'm happy to report that I successfully completed the CFAT and medical today.  The next step will be to have all the additional medical testing requirements completed and submitted and then hopefully I'll be invited back for the interview.

ErgoTracer     
 
I have been looking into this trade to switch into as my contract is up soon.

Are there any bioscience officers lurking here who can answer my questions?

The recruiting page describes the job:
http://www.forces.ca/html/bioscienceofficer_reg_en.aspx

As a Bioscience Officer, your contribution to the Canadian Forces mission will be to develop practical procedures, standards, equipment and strategies that conserve personnel and material resources, protect the environment, and enhance operational effectiveness.

You will have opportunities to become involved in a wide variety of CF operations, depending on your assignments and interests.

My questions are:

1) What limitation is there to the projects that  you can work on?  Can I move into any R&D area that involves development of training equipment and technology? Or is it restricted to safety factors?

2) What Universities are bioscience officers typically allowed to attend? Are foreign universities that fit the research area accessable?

3) What is the typical work environment like for the bioscience community? Where is the head office? Are you trapped in the head office for long portions of your career? ;)

4) What is the demand for Bioscience officers? Are there openings for the trade each year?

Thanks in advance.

 
I am not a Bio-Sci but I have worked closely with several:

My questions are: Answers to the degree I can answer

1) What limitation is there to the projects that  you can work on?  Can I move into any R&D area that involves development of training equipment and technology? Or is it restricted to safety factors?

Human factors - takes into account most equipment for soldier to pilot to diver.  Whereas laser safety would find you with air force in Winnipeg, Chem/Bio - Suffield, Hazardous environments - Ottawa and Suffield, CBRN - Borden at School or Suffield, there is a team from Ottawa that deploys on recce to regions we are thinking of deploying - they do hazard assessments, equipment design, trials - Toronto, Ottawa.  You with work with a lot of public servants and contractors  (scientists with specific specialties)

2) What Universities are bioscience officers typically allowed to attend? Are foreign universities that fit the research area accessable?  Not sure, I will have to defer!

3) What is the typical work environment like for the bioscience community? Where is the head office? Are you trapped in the head office for long portions of your career? ;)  Your career path depends on your sub-specialty - you can spend most of your career in one or two locations.  Head office is at DRDC in Toronto.

4) What is the demand for Bioscience officers? Are there openings for the trade each year? Yes and yes.

Thanks in advance.
 
Thanks for the response, was helpful. Perhaps you could direct this link to one of the bioscience officers you know?
 
Perhaps...???  But that would make me the middleman, I already have a career and it is not liaison or recruiting.  Perhaps you could...

Get some answers by using contacts through - http://www.drdc-rddc.gc.ca/careers-carrieres/index-eng.asp

or http://www.drdc-rddc.gc.ca/contact-contactez-eng.asp

or do some reading at http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/ps/oh-so/DHHAT-EDERS-eng.asp

or http://www.drdc-rddc.gc.ca/sitemap-plandusite-eng.asp
 
Perhaps...  But that would make me the middleman, I already have a career and it is not liaison or recruiting. 
Thanks, did not intend to turn you into the middle man.


 
Pieman said:
I have been looking into this trade to switch into as my contract is up soon.

Are there any bioscience officers lurking here who can answer my questions?

As far as I know, I'm the only Bio that actively monitors this site.  A few others have posted in the past, but usually only for specific topics (i.e. ongoing equipment projects).

1) What limitation is there to the projects that  you can work on?  Can I move into any R&D area that involves development of training equipment and technology? Or is it restricted to safety factors?

Restricted, but not in the way you've phrased the question.  You appear to be leaning towards the role of a defence scientist, which we are not.  You don't have the ability to pick and choose research projects or areas of interest...you're posted into a job and you perform that job.  For example, you may have a background in organic chemistry and find yourself working in Winnipeg as the Standards Officer at the CF School of Survival and Aeromedical Training (CFSSAT). 

There is a lot of variety in the trade and a lot of opportunities to do unique courses.  However, the chance of getting into the trade and working on a single specialty for your entire career is very unlikely.

2) What Universities are bioscience officers typically allowed to attend? Are foreign universities that fit the research area accessable?

The only reason you would go to a university is for a post grad (or if you wanted to take some courses on your own time).  The trade currently offers two PGs from schools in the States, with a yearly competition for the slots.  The first is in Human Factors from Monterey, CA and the second is in Industrial Hygiene from Bethesda.  Each of the PGs is a two-year posting...slots are based on the needs of the trade.  There is also a certificate in Aerospace Physiology from NAS Pensacola, but that's a three-month course.

3) What is the typical work environment like for the bioscience community? Where is the head office? Are you trapped in the head office for long portions of your career? ;)

Work environment changes based on where you work...each location is different.  The trade is small and only has a few main postings:  Suffield (Medicine Hat), Winnipeg, Toronto and Ottawa.  There are also a few one-of positions in Halifax, Trenton (mine) and Fort Detrick, MA.  For example, Winnipeg is flight suits and combats...flights suits around the altitude chamber and combats when out in the field for SERE courses.  In Trenton I'm in combats...plus I'm in one of the positions that deploys overseas (DHHAT).  Your number of subordinates will vary based on the job as well.

Head office is in Ottawa.  People either really like or really hate going there.  There are a few positions there besides the trade advisor...we have a DHHAT based out of NDMC, a medical intelligence position, etc.  Personally, of all the places I've been, I would say that my least favorite was Toronto...simply because I hated living in the city.  Toronto tends to have the highest number of Bios, so is often seen as being the "head".

4) What is the demand for Bioscience officers? Are there openings for the trade each year?

Small trade...about 35(?) positions.  Usually there are one or two slots open per year.  We've recently had a few members release from the CF, so that number may increase for the next few years.  Minimum to apply is an undergrad in the health sciences with the ability (i.e. B average) to get into a Masters program.

If you've seen the video on the recruiting website, you've probably figured out who I am (no, my avatar is not a picture of me  ;D).  Feel free to send me a PM if you have more questions.  You can also search for "bioscience" and read some of my historical comments.
 
I'm currently working towards a BSc in biotechnology (closely related to microbiology) and I'm looking for potential employment as a Commissioned Officer in the CF. From the official recruiting website, I found that there were indeed scientist positions offered ("Bioscience Officer"). But the description seems to imply that this position is geared towards people with an engineering or physiology background. The description also says that the candidate "meet minimum requirements for acceptance into a post-graduate programme in Human Factors, Physiology or Industrial Hygiene". Can anyone shed light on this? Would this position be compatible with my background? Are there other science related positions that the site does not state that would be suitable for me or would I be best off looking at other agencies like NRC or DRDC?

On a side note, I might choose to get a BA after my BSc (just because political science and military subjects are also my interest aside from science) so there are potentially other options there.
 
I work with Bioscience Officers frequently.  Small trade but a good bunch who do some really neat stuff.  They are the interface between the Canadian Forces Health Service (CFHS) and the Defence Research and Development scientists and between contracted researchers and the CFHS. They also do some research proper in their own right.

The guys I know do research in the fields of soldier survival (personnel armour), personnel equipment improvement, chemical biological radiological nuclear defence, the human machine interface, blast injury, medical countermeasures, improving individual and team performance, operational culture, synthetic environments, modeling, simulation, and decision support. I am sure there is stuff I missed / do not know about as it seems that much of their research is done at the classified level, either for security reasons or intellectual property.

When they are not employed in doing research type stuff they are involved in the CFHS aerospace medicine program, medical intelligence, and lead the Deployable Health Hazard Assessment Teams (DHHAT).

All of the ones that I have met have at least one masters degree. Often they come with a degree and then get a second one in industrial hygiene (for DHHAT or medical intelligence), or human factors (for research and aerospace medicine) in order to meet the needs of the service.  In a few cases I have met officers who have came in with an undergraduate degree, with the obvious capability to get into one of the masters programs that you have mentioned.

If you apply the CFHS Science and Technology Manager (the senior Bioscience Officer) will see your application to determine if your undergraduate degree will meet the needs of the CF.  You need to be in a position however then you leave undergrad to undertake and succeed in graduate schooling. 

If you need more information let me know and I can ask around for you.

MC
 
MC covered most of the bases already (excellent info), but do a search here for the bioscience thread.  Give it a read and if you have any further questions, feel free to PM me.  I'm one of the Bios in the recruiting video.  :)
 
:crystalball:

I see a merge coming soon.....

Milnet.ca Staff
 
Thread revival!

Just got a few miscellaneous questions after reading through the entire consolidated thread:

1. How much choice do Bioscience Officers get as to what field they get trained in or does it depend on the need of the Forces? I plan on specializing my BSc Honours in Microbiology and Immunology (changed from my last post) and would like to work with cells (which I guess means that I'm leaning towards health/occupational hygiene). I wouldn't be sent to do applied R&D on stuff like equipment would I?

Dirt Digger said:
The trade currently offers two PGs from schools in the States, with a yearly competition for the slots.  The first is in Human Factors from Monterey, CA and the second is in Industrial Hygiene from Bethesda.  Each of the PGs is a two-year posting...slots are based on the needs of the trade.  There is also a certificate in Aerospace Physiology from NAS Pensacola, but that's a three-month course.

2. Dirt Digger (or anyone else in the know), is the above information still accurate for place and duration of the MSc?

3. I've been doing a bit of career exploration and it seems that in the civilian scientist field, there is a lot of emphasis on research and lab experience. Is any of this necessary/useful for entry as a Bioscience Officer? How much research does each specialization within the Bioscience trade do?

4. What pay scale does Bioscience Officer fall under?

5. More of a fun question: upon entry, what element uniform do Bioscience Officers wear (since it is a purple trade)? I heard that Bioscience Officers wearing Naval uniforms get cherry red bands between the gold rank bands on their sleeves :D
 
paxis said:
4. What pay scale does Bioscience Officer fall under?

5. More of a fun question: upon entry, what element uniform do Bioscience Officers wear (since it is a purple trade)? I heard that Bioscience Officers wearing Naval uniforms get cherry red bands between the gold rank bands on their sleeves :D
4.  I suspect that BIO falls under the pay scale for general duty officers i.e. no spec pay, same as every other Captain rank.

5.  Naval uniforms for Medical Officers have the red bands, all other allied health professionals wear maroon bands between the gold bars.  BIO would wear maroon.
 
paxis said:
1. How much choice do Bioscience Officers get as to what field they get trained in or does it depend on the need of the Forces? I plan on specializing my BSc Honours in Microbiology and Immunology (changed from my last post) and would like to work with cells (which I guess means that I'm leaning towards health/occupational hygiene). I wouldn't be sent to do applied R&D on stuff like equipment would I?
Hard to say - while CF need plays a role, you obviously can't fill certain positions unless you have the right background.  As a junior Bio (as in "Pre-PG"), you could very well find yourself involved in some sort of job you were not expecting.  For example, I started off doing aerospace physiology, which I had no idea even existed before I joined (and loved every minute of it).  Some positions you can "OJT" into with some coursework, some you need a certain check in the box like the PG.  So, until such time as you start down either the Industrial Hygiene (IH) or Human Factors (HF) path, you leave yourself open.

Remember as well that the BSc is just your foot in the door.  You say that you like working with cells, but the important thing to remember is that a Bio is not a defence scientist.  I completed my undergrad in biology and did lots of genetics - haven't done any of that since my commissioning.  Can't really say that I miss it either, because I've been able to do what I consider to be much more interesting things.
2. Dirt Digger (or anyone else in the know), is the above information still accurate for place and duration of the MSc?
The IH PG is currently in Bethesda, although I've argued that it should also be offered at UofT (where I did mine).  The HF PG was last offered in Monterey, although that might change to Bethesda as well.  In the past, HF was also offered in Loughborough, UK.  This one is almost impossible to predict for the future, as the trade is trying to maximize what we get out of the programs.  Length of training hasn't changed.
3. I've been doing a bit of career exploration and it seems that in the civilian scientist field, there is a lot of emphasis on research and lab experience. Is any of this necessary/useful for entry as a Bioscience Officer? How much research does each specialization within the Bioscience trade do?
It really depends on what you mean by "research and lab experience".  On the IH side, you don't really do hypothesis-based experimentation.  As a short example, there's concern that chemical X may be an exposure issue for people in job Y.  I would research the chemical and investigate the job, then make a sampling plan for routine exposures.  My team would then go out, complete the sample plan and send the samples off to an accredited lab.  Once the results came back, I would compare the results against accepted Canadian standards and determine if there was a problem.  The basics are actually fairly similar to doing a patrol or a small party tasking, with people filling certain roles, using specialized equipment and meeting specific timings.  HF falls along the same line, but it's the area I have the least amount of trade experience in and can't go into a lot of detail.  HF also does a lot of project management. 

Not really a lot of lab-coat style work done in the trade.  Emphasis is more on the scientific method toward doing studies and scientific writing.  I do very little true research outside of reading journal articles, although I have presented results from environmental sampling at conferences.  Again - not defence scientists!
4. What pay scale does Bioscience Officer fall under?
We're classed as Specialist Officers, but we're paid as General Service Officers.  The real difference is that we bypass the rank of 2Lt and go straight from OCdt to Lt. 
5. More of a fun question: upon entry, what element uniform do Bioscience Officers wear (since it is a purple trade)? I heard that Bioscience Officers wearing Naval uniforms get cherry red bands between the gold rank bands on their sleeves :D
The element seems to almost be a roll of the dice.  The year I joined, all three of us ended up army, although one has since transfered over to the naval uniform.  They try and keep the numbers balanced between the three, but this is one part of the joining process that's a true mystery.  I think it involves several beers and a dart board.

What you've heard about the bands are true for the navy - the docs wear a difference shade than other medical trades. 
 
Strictly speaking, you're supposed to be commissioned as a second lieutenant with simultaneous promotion to lieutenant.

A pedantic point, but it does provide the CF the ability to reduce you in rank to 2Lt at court-martial, should such a situation ever occur.
 
Thanks for the replies all, definitely helped. To be honest I am not 100% sure how much research I want to do (finding it difficult to even find opportunities) so I'm gonna have to do some meditation/soul searching to see where my interests fit in terms of research and employment (which should determine if Bioscience Officer is really the thing for me vs civilian).
 
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