TF-08 Bison Drivers

[HCA]

Well it has finally happened.  We have asked for it for the last decade and 1 HSG came through.  We have 3 Medics (2 others on standby)  going off on the 15th of Jan to start the Bison training for Afghanistan.  Now we just need to follow through on what we have asked for and make sure our 3 represent the unit and the medical reserve well.  Talk about pressure. 

Gotta say 1HSG has really been doing a fine job of looking out for Reserve interests so far.

 

[Franko]

Let me get this straight....

They are getting medics to drive and CC Bisons?

Regards

 

[aesop081]

looking out for Reserve interests so far.

Empire building at its best..........How about looking out for the CFs interests !

 

[MED_BCMC]

Well it has finally happened.  We have asked for it for the last decade and 1 HSG came through.  We have 3 Medics (2 others on standby)  going off on the 15th of Jan to start the Bison training for Afghanistan.  Now we just need to follow through on what we have asked for and make sure our 3 represent the unit and the medical reserve well.  Talk about pressure. 

Gotta say 1HSG has really been doing a fine job of looking out for Reserve interests so far.

I'm sure that I have a few pers in my unit that would be interested in this training and the subsquent deployments. Are there other positions avail, or was it just the 3? This is the first I've seen of this being offered to Reserve Medics in a long time.

Thanks,
BCM

 

[geo]

Hmmm.... wouldn't if be better to train the medics as medics so they can be used as medics ........ instead of using em as bus drivers / mechanics / etc...........

 

[aesop081]

Hmmm.... wouldn't if be better to train the medics as medics so they can be used as medics ........ instead of using em as bus drivers / mechanics / etc...........

My point exactly.  I have no doubt of the ability of thse individulas to serve in Afghanistan.  But i question the motivation behind employing them as drivers.  Is this in the CFs best interest or is this a case of the HS reserves trying to snag a part of the action just to say it did ? If those guys are medics, shouldnt  1HSG seek employement as medics for these people ?

 

[geo]

Reservists?.... even a Reg medic can be better used as a medic than as a driver.... but that's just me 8)

 

[MED_BCMC]

These folks are the ones that do not have the PCP Course (Reg F QL3). Without Reg F QL3, Res F medics cannot deploy as medics, and as a Senior HS Officer so gracefully put a few years ago, are "nothing more than glorified ambulance drivers".

Is this in the CFs best interest or is this a case of the HS reserves trying to snag a part of the action just to say it did ? If those guys are medics, shouldnt  1HSG seek employement as medics for these people ?

This is the Reserve Force member trying to make sure they are useful.

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

A rhetorical question:  if you have SQ qualified soldiers awaiting training as medics, but who don't have a course, what's the better course of action - give them a relatively short driver's course or let them wait until they're trained and deployable as medics?

Stop second guessing when you don't have all the facts.

 

[geo]

(breaking up their trade course and train them to QL5 (TQ level for DP2))

 

[Trinity]

Think about it

Medics that drive Bisons.

You have the medic who works in the back... and you
have a second person medic trained to assist (the driver)

You double your man power for medics.  Better to have
the driver a medic (even if not reg force standard) because
a reserve medic still has significantly more medic training and
experience with the equipment (I know, I've trained enough Res Medics)
than the infantry or others.

This is a win / win situation for the army.  The army gets more
people who drive and can serve, the wounded get more medics
on the field.

 

[Gunner98]

Think about it

Medics that drive Bisons.

You have the medic who works in the back... and you
have a second person medic trained to assist (the driver)

You double your man power for medics.  Better to have
the driver a medic (even if not reg force standard) because
a reserve medic still has significantly more medic training and
experience with the equipment (I know, I've trained enough Res Medics)
than the infantry or others.

This is a win / win situation for the army.  The army gets more
people who drive and can serve, the wounded get more medics
on the field.

IMHO - just because the TO&E position says 'Bison Driver' that Res Medic could end up doing KP or digging D&S trenches once in theatre.  It is not the qualification it is the soldier that does the task.  I have trained Reg Force QL3 Med Techs as Bison Driver who deployed for 6 months to KAF and never stepped into a Bison once.

IMHO - in a war zone I want a Bison driver who has a little experience and not just off his driver's course.

IMHO - going to a war zone to say you went does not mean guarantee you or your mates are coming back
alive.

A little knowledge is dangerous - drivers drive; Medics treat the injured and sick.  If the driver is a Medic which is skill is more important - think carefully, your life may depend on it -  whether you are a crew member or a casualties enroute to life-saving care.

 

[MED_BCMC]

A little knowledge is dangerous - drivers drive; Medics treat the injured and sick.  If the driver is a Medic which is skill is more important - think carefully, your life may depend on it -  whether you are a crew member or a casualties enroute to life-saving care.

Very true, but the Reserve Force medics in question CANNOT serve as medics in theatre, because they do not have the minimum required qualifications (PCP - Reg F QL3). It's not a matter of mis-employing a medic as a driver, it's a matter of employing a willing reservist. The individual soldier's motivations for deployment are for a different thread at a different time.

 

[Trinity]

Gunner

In principle  I agree with you.

I would love to have people who are fully trained in their specific
role FILLING those roles.

Sadly... with the squeeze we are placing upon troops the military is
going to explore every option possible.  Right now it's 5 reservist.
This is most likely an test by the system to see if this is one of the
many ways to help fill roles by the reserve.  I'm also sure it won't
simply be a drivers course and then being sent into theatre. There
would have to be a 6 month work up minimum. 

Is it an ideal situation.. no.  Will it work.. probably.

 

[Gunner98]

"It's not a matter of mis-employing a medic as a driver, it's a matter of employing a willing reservist. The individual soldier's motivations for deployment are for a different thread at a different time."

;D Is that a let's take this outside - to another thread I hear.

It is nice to say "employ a willing Reservist", if he is so willing to serve and die for his country perhaps he should join an Infantry Reserve unit or a Transport Unit, otherwise he should wait his turn to face the music when he can be fully employable as a Medic.

Edit: Smileys added to designate humor!

 

[MED_BCMC]

It is nice to say "employ a willing Reservist", if he is so willing to serve and die for his country perhaps he should join an Infantry Reserve unit or a Transport Unit, otherwise he should wait his turn to face the music when he can be fully employable as a Medic.

Agreed, but until such time as Res F medics receive the same training as our Regular Force counterparts, I see no reason why a medic can't fill other "non-medic medical" (Amb Driver) type positions. Also, if the medic in question is slated to drive a Bison Amb (and actually does end up driving a Bison Amb), then he/she will be picking up some skills via OJT.

Also: No intent to "take this outside", but the member's motivations for deployment would be the same as any reservist seeking deployment. 

Edit for Clarity

 

[Franko]

Think about it

Medics that drive Bisons.

You have the medic who works in the back... and you
have a second person medic trained to assist (the driver)

Ummm no. The driver drives the vehicle period. Doesn't matter what trade they are...even if they are a medic.

If that call sign comes under attack and said medic is helping treat the wounded instead of in their hole ready to punch....well you can put the rest together.

Same as the crew commander....he's not going to help in the back when the vehicle is under way either. Air sentries have their job as well.

The crew must work together to ensure a safe extraction, from pickup to drop off. Close protection remember.

Medics in the back (hopefully 2 at least) have to do the dirty work until the evac is complete, then the crew can help....at the field hosp.

Now I know that the amb drivers for roto 1 Archer were black hatters.....don't tell me that they can't find someone from any other trade besides the medical branch to do the job.

My 2 duram worth.....

Regards

 

[Gunner98]

One round left in my magazine for today.  :threat:

Let's be clear, even the Bison Ambulances now travel outside the wire with Red Crosses turned in and C-6 MG mounted, loaded and ready to defend. 

I wish them (willing Reservists of any variety) well, hope they enjoy the ride.  The TO&Es have vacancies so let's get them filled.  It would defintely be invaluable experience for their future endeavors.

 

[Trinity]

Ummm no. The driver drives the vehicle period. Doesn't matter what trade they are...even if they are a medic.

If so.. then the entire idea of employing medics in bison ambs.. is stupid.
Might as well employ any trade in that position, not just medics.

Then the question to be asked and verified is are we employing res medics
in this role because of their extra medical knowledge or not.... guess the
original Major who posted would have more info.

 

[Gunner98]

Trinity - I just love your thinking process -"wait their reasoning makes sense, as the light bulb grows slowly brighter".

From
"Gunner
In principle  I agree with you."

A little brighter now...

"If so.. then the entire idea of employing medics in bison ambs.. is stupid."

Tracking... target identified...Engage...right to the point.  Attaboy!! :warstory: