- Reaction score
- 4,709
- Points
- 1,160
Does the 8 man section have to man the driver/cc seats as well? Might be the photo angle but looks pretty small to fit a dismount section in there. Coyote replacement potential for sure though.
Eye In The Sky said:Not having been in one, I am curious what the ability to view all around it is/blind spots to observation. Having optics are great but you get a 'straw' view. And everyone can get sucked into looking down that straw to the detriment of SA.
Underway said:Last I spoke to a RCD MWO, I think the blind spots issue for "observation" was relatively minor. To do recce properly you need dismounts and to get out of the vehicle and LOOK (so I was told, emphasis his, swear words removed...). Can't do recce properly mounted. I'm sure someone here will correct my if I'm off base. But are these TAPV recce vehicles or observation vehicles. There is a big difference between sitting in one spot and watching vs doing recce I would think. I don't know if traditional armoured recce has a place in peace support or counter insurgency operations (which I'm sure TAPV will be pretty good at). Observation certainly does. Now with UAV's is traditional roles for armoured recce dying on the vine? Can a TAPV do them effectively?
George Wallace said:To do RECCE you need to use all your senses; not just vision. Enclosed in an armoured vehicle, or using a UAV, takes away your sense of HEARING, and to lesser, but just as important, SMELL and TOUCH. When you do not have 360 degrees of vision, you are greatly hampered. If you can't hear what is out there, you are even more hampered. If you don't smell changes in the air, you may really be screwed. Touch (although rather minor) could be anything from direction of wind, to any other factor that may affect your detecting a threat or approaching a threat.
George Wallace said:The Armour Corps has been plagued for the past four decades with buying vehicles, not to match the Doctrine, but matching the Doctrine to the vehicles it buys. This is one (or more) instance where 'Change' is not necessarily good, nor ideal. Changes to Armour Doctrines, not only affect the way the Armour Corps does business, but all the other Cbt Arms and Support Arms.
Underway said:Last I spoke to a RCD MWO, I think the blind spots issue for "observation" was relatively minor. To do recce properly you need dismounts and to get out of the vehicle and LOOK (so I was told, emphasis his, swear words removed...). Can't do recce properly mounted. I'm sure someone here will correct my if I'm off base. I don't know if traditional armoured recce has a place in peace support or counter insurgency operations (which I'm sure TAPV will be pretty good at). Observation certainly does. Now with UAV's is traditional roles for armoured recce dying on the vine? Can a TAPV do them effectively?
But are these TAPV recce vehicles or observation vehicles. There is a big difference between sitting in one spot and watching vs doing recce I would think.
There was room for kit; NODLRs, the dismtd version of the Coyote mast, ammo, water, rats, batteries, you name it. It was limited to a C6 on the slew ring, but you could carry some extra SRAAWs and you usually had comm's with a Golf c/s.
Underway said:So why is this? Is the doctrine held and applied by the NCO's and the officers forget it when they are promoted or something? What are they teaching you on AOC these days?
Oldgateboatdriver said:So a Reece mantra would be like: "No one controls my fate, especially not one who smells of garlic and attacks downwind!"
Chris Pook said:One of my pet peeves is the notion of permanently fixing gear to vehicles. It removes a lot of options. There may be advantages but now the capabilities of the attached system are no longer available unless you can get the attached 20 tonne anchor into position as well.
Chris Pook said:George:
Is part of the problem embedded in the identity of the Corps: the Armoured Corps?
Would the issue be addressed differently if it were still the Cavalry Corps?
Armour is all about protection and specifically breaking sieges. I think I can make a case that Armour could be primarily and engineering asset.
If troopers were still riding their vehicles rather than being encased in their vehicles, how would the Corps' tactics change?
MilEME09 said:Not to mention said kit may need power from your vehicle, which limits your operating time, or you are taking batteries to operate longer, which weighs you down.
106. Concept
1. Canadian doctrine holds that brigade level reconnaissance units should be lightly armed
for self-protection, mounted in fast and agile vehicles, equipped with extensive radio
communications and organized to operate a large number of sub-units in surreptitious
reconnaissance. (Sounds like a Coyote, Lav 6.0 or a TAPV right? NOT! :facepalm
2. Although, in garrison, the reconnaissance squadron will be an integral part of the
armoured regiment, in operations it will normally operate independently under the direct control
of the brigade commander.
3. The reconnaissance squadron is required to provide information to the brigade
commander and most tasks will involve reconnaissance or surveillance. Without important
augmentation in firepower, the squadron has almost no capability to impose delay on a
determined enemy. It can observe, report, maintain contact and provide warning, but little more.
recceguy said:As to size and type of vehicles, I found nothing worse for recce than the big, black exhaust spewing, jake brake noise of the current vehicles trying to do 'sneak and peek.'
Eye In The Sky said:Situation dependant, but I'd be willing to trade off some of the noise a Bison makes for the stuff it did 'better'; more stores, protection, mobility, an actual place to mount the GPMG. A boiler vessel...who doesn't love hot dogs in the OP base without having to fire up a stove? ;D
Although, with that said, I am just picking from the stuff we have had recently or have now. I'd do something different if it was up to me. I was a fan of the VBL myself. One ea of the turret/turretless versions per Ptl. 50 cal in the turret.