Syria Superthread [merged]

[myself.only]

So do you think that that would be an easier sell and legitimately the West's problem if Assad was gassing people of a different ethnicity / religion...?

 

[Inquisitor]

So do you think that that would be an easier sell and legitimately the West's problem if Assad was gassing people of a different ethnicity / religion...?

Most assuredly, since that would likely mean that they weren't Syrian.

I suggest that the article reinforces what most posters agree on. The situation is tragic.  The hype that the Administration is putting out to justify strike is not helping anyone.

Sarah Paulin may be right to imply its best to Let them sort themselves out on their own. The ones I truly feel for are those that want to but lack the means to get out of the way.

 

[PMedMoe]

Sarah Paulin

FTFY.  :

 

[Scott]

"Inquisitor" has been discovered to be a reincarnation of a banned member. It took me a while, but I have enough to send his arse packing.

Nice try. Your manner undid you...again.

 

[Edward Campbell]

The Onion gets it right again.

Today's headline reads:

Poll: Majority Of Americans Approve Of Sending Congress To Syria  :nod:

 

[jollyjacktar]

"Inquisitor" has been discovered to be a reincarnation of a banned member. It took me a while, but I have enough to send his arse packing.

Nice try. Your manner undid you...again.

Thank you very much.

 

[57Chevy]

                            Article shared with provisions of The Copyright Act

(highlights mine)

Putin says he can work with Obama
By David Jackson USA Today

Vladimir Putin says his differences with President Obama aren't personal, or permanent.

"President Obama hasn't been elected by the American people in order to be pleasant to Russia," Putin told the Associated Press. "And your humble servant hasn't been elected by the people of Russia to be pleasant to someone either."

He said, "We work, we argue about some issues. We are human. Sometimes one of us gets vexed. But I would like to repeat once again that global mutual interests form a good basis for finding a joint solution to our problems."

That could include Syria, Putin said in the interview with AP and Russia's state Channel 1.

Though Putin warned the United States and the West against one-sided military action against Syria, he said Russia "doesn't exclude" supporting strikes if it can be proved that Bashar Assad's government used chemical weapons against its people.

The Associated Press reports:

"Putin said Moscow has provided some components of the S-300 air defense missile system to Syria but has frozen further shipments. He suggested Russia may sell the potent missile systems elsewhere if Western nations attack Syria without U.N. Security Council backing.

"The interview Tuesday night at Putin's country residence outside the Russian capital was the only one he granted before the summit of G-20 nations in St. Petersburg, which opens Thursday. The summit is supposed to concentrate on the global economy, but it looks likely to be dominated by the international crisis over allegations that the Syrian government used chemical weapons in the country's civil war.

"Putin said he felt sorry that President Obama canceled a one-on-one meeting in Moscow that was supposed to have happened before the summit. He expressed hope the two would have serious discussions about Syria and other issues in St. Petersburg."

 

[Rifleman62]

IMHO this is an obvious example of the WH press corp, absolutely and positively in President Obama's pocket, providing intimate support to a POTUS who has got himself in a big, big mess. As a matter of fact, President Obama now denies saying "a red line".

People forget that al Qaeda is Russia's enemy also.

"First of all, I didn't set a red line," said Obama.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=avQKLRGRhPU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xKxzF_K2u8

From SDA:

Robert Spencer at FrontPageMag:

    Obama doesn't even have any real allies inside Syria...The major rebel groups are all allied with al-Qaeda. John Kerry insists they're "secular" and John McCain assures us they're "moderates." None of these groups, however, have shown any sign of being either.

Vladimir Putin:

    "They lie beautifully, of course. I saw debates in Congress. A congressman asks Mr Kerry: 'Is al Qaeda there?' He says: 'No, I am telling you responsibly that it is not.' Al Qaeda units are the main military echelon, and they know this. It was unpleasant and surprising for me - we talk to them, we proceed from the assumption that they are decent people. But he is lying and knows he is lying. It's sad."

 

[CougarKing]

"How many troops?" shouldn't be the only question in mind, but "whose troops?" is probably also relevant, since a US Senate resolution draft called for Obama to put "no boots" on the ground. Whether the Turks, Saudis, Jordanians, Israelis, Iraqis, etc., will be willing to put troops in Syria to secure these WMD sites is another dilemma altogether...

link

75,000 troops needed to secure chemical weapons if Damascus falls
Published time: September 05, 2013 15:24


(AP) The potential of strategic US strikes in Syria has sparked fears Damascus’ chemical weapons could fall into the wrong hands if the government is toppled. A recent congressional report says 75,000 troops would be needed to safeguard the WMD caches.

The Congressional Research Center (CRS) report, issued just one day before the alleged August 21 chemical weapons attack in a Damascus suburb, was compiled with the aim of “responding to possible scenarios involving the use, change of hands, or loss of control of Syrian chemical weapons.”

It states that Syria’s chemical weapon stockpiles, which a French intelligence report recently estimated at over 1,000 tons, have been secured by Syrian special forces.

“Due to the urgency of preventing access to these weapons by unauthorized groups, including terrorists, the United States government has been preparing for scenarios to secure the weapons in the event of the Assad regime’s loss of control,” the document reads

Testifying before the Senate Armed Services Committee on March 7, 2012, then-Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta warned the ouster of Assad would present a scenario “100 times worse than what we dealt with in Libya.”

In order to secure the 50 chemical weapon and production sites spread across Syria, in addition to storage and research facilities, “The Pentagon has estimated that it would take over 75,000 troops to neutralize the chemical weapons,” the document continues, citing a February 2012 CNN report.

Meanwhile, a resolution backing the use of force against President Bashar Assad's government cleared the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on a 10-7 vote on Wednesday, although section 3 of the draft ostensibly ruled out US combat operations on the ground.

The wording of the text, however, could potentially allow for troops on the ground for the sake of non-offensive operations, including securing chemical weapons stockpiles and production facilities.
(...)

 

[Fishbone Jones]

IMHO this is an obvious example of the WH press corp, absolutely and positively in President Obama's pocket, providing intimate support to a POTUS who has got himself in a big, big mess. As a matter of fact, President Obama now denies saying "a red line".

People forget that al Qaeda is Russia's enemy also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=avQKLRGRhPU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xKxzF_K2u8

From SDA:

If people haven't figured he's the king o' flip flop and the biggest lyin' shyte south of 49, they deserve to spend their time in purgatory , praising him, while the country falls apart around them.

 

[OldSolduer]

People forget that al Qaeda is Russia's enemy also.

Throw in the fact that the Chechens aren't exactly Russian pals either.....nor ours as far as I'm concerned.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Russian landing ship Nikolai Filchenkov is reportedly heading to the Syrian coast as tension in the region continues to escalate.

The deployment of another vessel by Moscow, a key ally of Damascus, comes as the US considers unleashing a military strike against president Bashar al-Assad's regime.

"The vessel will dock in Novorossiysk where it will take special cargo on board and head to the designated area of military service in the eastern Mediterranean," an unnamed naval source told Russia's Interfax news agency.

The nature of the cargo is still unclear. The vessel has capacity for 3,300 troops and 1,700 tonnes of cargo, including 20 tanks.

It is protected by three guns and three missile launchers ....

International Business Times, 6 Sept 13

More on the Filchenkov here, and on the Alligator Class of ships here

 

[tomahawk6]

I suspect that the ship will take on additional SAM launchers/radar.

 

[vonGarvin]

I wonder if Canada will get involved?  But I suspect it wouldn't be for a year or so.  I mean, first they would need to set up a Strat Recce into Syria, followed by a Tac Recce, then the HLTA plan would have to be made up, the work up training would have to be booked at Wainwright, etc etc.


/sarcasm

 

[The Bread Guy]

MORE Canadian aid for SYR civilians - from the PM's Info-machine ....

Prime Minister Stephen Harper today announced further Canadian support to help address the worsening humanitarian situation in Syria.

“The Government of Canada stands with the people of Syria as they continue to face unfathomable hardships at the hands of the Assad regime,” said Prime Minister Harper.  “Canada’s support, together with that of its allies, will help provide much needed humanitarian assistance to the millions of innocent people whose lives are being destroyed by the conflict in Syria.”

Canada will provide $45 million in support of humanitarian organizations striving to meet the needs of Syrians affected by the conflict.  This includes providing food, clean water and sanitation, medical assistance, shelter and protection to those Syrians in country, as well as to those who have fled to neighbouring nations.

With this announcement, Canada has committed $203.5 million for humanitarian assistance to the crisis in Syria since January 2012.

From the backgrounder:

.... Canada’s support will help humanitarian organizations meet the needs of Syrians affected by the conflict by providing food, clean water and sanitation, medical assistance, shelter and protection to those Syrians in country, as well as to those who have fled to neighbouring nations ....

 

[OldSolduer]

A video was played on CBC Newsworld that allegedly showed the rebels executing seven Syrian Army soldiers.


And the US Government - Obama- wants to bomb the Syrian Army..... :facepalm:

And John Kerry and his outrage is old already.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Prof Bruce Ackerman, writing in Foreign Policy says: President Obama's proposal to the US Congress "is a massive bait-and-switch operation. It authorizes the president to use "the Armed Forces of the United States," including boots on the ground, and to employ military force "within, to or from Syria." What is more, the president can act to deter the "use or proliferation" of "chemical or other weapons of mass destruction" and intervene to "protect the United States and its allies and partners against the threat posed by such weapons." This is nothing less than an open-ended endorsement of military intervention in the Middle East and beyond."

Prof Ackerman suggests that "The crucial point to recognize is that something special is happening. A dispute with a minor-league despot is provoking a major turning point in American foreign policy. This is a moment for Congress to confront its responsibilities with high seriousness."

I'm not so sure, my suspicion is that, despite a few big brains in the White House and in Foggy Bottom, the real planning is both highly political and highly partisan, rather than being either strategic or in America's best interests. I'm guessing that President Obama is sincere when he says he doesn't want to engage in the Middle East. I base that guess on the fact - and I believe it is a fact - that he and his closest advisors neither know nor care much about that region, or any other outside of "Blue America" for that matter. It was another great Democrat, Thomas "Tip" O'Neill who reminded us that all politics, and by extension all policies, even the gravest foreign policy matters, are, ultimately, "local." I think President Obama "sees" the world, and indeed America, through the eyes of an inner city "community activist" ~ in that I think he is just the other side of the same coin from President George W Bush. I, honestly, cannot see much to choose between them in terms of what President George HW Bush famously called "the vision thing."

Unfortunately, for America, it is, yet again, saddled, by choice, with thoroughly second rate leadership, but this time there is no Margaret Thatcher to put some intellectual heft and spine into the leader of the free world.

 

[CougarKing]

Perhaps those Russian ships are carrying further arms to replace those expected to be lost in an upcoming Syria strike?  ???

Fox News link

Putin warns Russia could come to Syria's aid over US strike

(...)

Putin escalated concerns about the fallout from any strike when he indicated in an interview published Wednesday that his country could send Syria and its neighbors in the region the components of a missile shield if the U.S. attacks.

U.S. Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, testified this week that the Russians might even replace any military assets the U.S. destroys in a strike.

The warnings raise the possibility of a supposedly "limited" strike on Syria turning into a proxy tit-for-tat between Russia and the U.S.

Rep. George Holding, R-N.C., went further during a hearing on Syria on Wednesday, pressing military officials on what the U.S. would do "if Russia decided to strike at us in that theater."

"We can certainly say that Russia would have options to strike us in that theater in retaliation for us striking their ally," he warned.

Dempsey declined to engage in that discussion, saying only that "Russia has capabilities that range from the asymmetric, including cyber, all the way up through strategic nuclear weapons. And again, it wouldn't be helpful in this setting to speculate about that."

Secretary of State John Kerry, though, said the Russians have made clear they don't intend to go to war over a strike on Syria.

Perhaps more likely is that Putin's government would continue to aid and prop up the Assad regime, undermining any gains made by a U.S. strike.


(...)

 

[Jarnhamar]

Isn't Putin too busy with his war against gays?

 

[Rifleman62]

I wonder if Canada will get involved?  But I suspect it wouldn't be for a year or so.  I mean, first they would need to set up a Strat Recce into Syria, followed by a Tac Recce, then the HLTA plan would have to be made up, the work up training would have to be booked at Wainwright, etc etc.


/sarcasm

From what I read here @ Army.ca, I am supposing that once WX is finished it will be realized that new boots, tac vest and rucks will be needed, thus development  will commence. The Green, Desert, or Urban decision must be made first. Or will it be Blue for the new Foreign Non Policy of his eminence, Justin Trudeau. The addition of a special tac vest JT pouch may also be mandated.