Swiss voters favour Islamic Minaret ban for local buildings

[zipperhead_cop]

The main problem that causes so much confusion amongst the religion is that people who KNOW the religion know that it is a very peaceful religion and has ideals higher than others (I've never read anything in a bible saying how you should treat other religions correct me if I am wrong). The people who misinterpret this book are people who can't read it or people who have higher agendas and use it to further their goals.

IMO, any religion can be peaceful or not.  It is subject to interpretation and distortion by any number of individuals.  The problem is that there are large groups (radicals) and whole countries that support them (Iran, Saudi, Pakistan et al) who are very organized (read: Hezbollah, Al Qaeda) who have a stated goal to transform the planet into an Islamic caliphate.  If you are not with them, you can be killed and it's cool with Allah according to them.  Where things go south is that the moderate Muslims don't speak up loudly or in a significant way (could we blame the MSM for not getting the message out from moderates?) thus emboldening the radicals through the implied consent the get from the silent majority.  I also perceive that Muslims collectively are on the fence if they should even try to stop the wave of radicalism, since if it does go their way it will be a good day to be part of Team Islam.  As I mentioned elsewhere, no reason to change anything if you think you are on the winning team.  I imagine being in Berlin in 1941 was pretty cool and nobody was too worried about dialing things back. 

So whether it will serve them the way they hope in the long run or not, the Swiss are taking the fight to their perceived enemy and being proactive.  My prediction?  You'll see some terrorist-type acts sprout up there and further harden the peoples attitudes towards Islam.  Maybe Switzerland will be the Israel of Europe one day? 

 

[Jarnhamar]

Good on the Swiss for putting their foot down and saying NO to something they believe in compared to Canada who gives ground over and over and over.

 

[Greymatters]

Good on the Swiss for putting their foot down and saying NO to something they believe in compared to Canada who gives ground over and over and over.

In the end its their country.  It sounds like they are more concerned with preserving their current  Swiss culture than with catering to the demands of minority groups.  Im sure a group wishing to build a series of buildings based on Japanese pagodas or a Somali mudbrick huts would also receive a negativ vote...

 

[vonGarvin]

In the end its their country.  It sounds like they are more concerned with preserving their current  Swiss culture than with catering to the demands of minority groups.  Im sure a group wishing to build a series of buildings based on Japanese pagodas or a Somali mudbrick huts would also receive a negativ vote...

I highly doubt that...

 

[mariomike]

Story in the paper on 12 Dec. saying, "Most Swiss women, who only got to vote in 1971, had no idea the Balkan Muslim women in Switzerland are as liberated as they are." Went on to compare it to the situation back in the 1930's.

 

[Greymatters]

I highly doubt that...

Its only an example...

 

[Kat Stevens]

I highly doubt that...

You can make a pretty decent guess at the objectives of the party that raised the refferendum, but you have no way of knowing the motivation of the majority that supported it.  Ain't democracy swell, or is it only good when the special ones get their way?

 

[vonGarvin]

You can make a pretty decent guess at the objectives of the party that raised the refferendum, but you have no way of knowing the motivation of the majority that supported it.  Ain't democracy swell, or is it only good when the special ones get their way?

Here's my thousands of words in response:

If 10000 people voted, then there are 10000 reasons why they voted that way.  I totally get what the Swiss (and other Euros) are thinking: the enemy is at the gates.  In some cases, in many cases, they are right.  Having said that, I think that they missed the mark on this one.  Minarets are things.  Banning them does nothing.  It's not even a band-aid to a festering wound.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Again;  in the bottom left corner of every one of those posters is the same logo.  Their motivation is self evident.  That of the Swiss majority is not.

 

[mariomike]

I came across this story on the subject, if interested:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6936267.ece

 

[vonGarvin]

Again;  in the bottom left corner of every one of those posters is the same logo.  Their motivation is self evident.  That of the Swiss majority is not.

OK, I get it.  You and I agree that the SVP campaigned for the ban for obvious reasons.  I will not agree that every voter voted for a similar reason; however, I'm fairly certain that the integrity of Swiss Architecture or the price of tea in China was the reason.  As I stated, if there were ten thousand voters, then there were ten thousand reasons for each of the ballots cast.

But I think a blind man can understand that those posters (and the campaigns that accompanied them) had some effect. 

Still, I maintain, the ban is useless, UNLESS they just want foreigners (and non-catholics) to feel unwelcome.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Of course the posters had some effect, perhaps not the desired one in all cases.  That's what posters are for.  My only point is that you implied a page or two back, that everyone who supports the ban has a brown shirt and jackboots stashed under the bed, waiting for their moment.  You can't know that, that's all I'm saying.

 

[vonGarvin]

Of course the posters had some effect, perhaps not the desired one in all cases.  That's what posters are for.  My only point is that you implied a page or two back, that everyone who supports the ban has a brown shirt and jackboots stashed under the bed, waiting for their moment.  You can't know that, that's all I'm saying.

Fair enough.  If that's how it came across, I apologise.  (The SVP are the brown shirts, as far as I'm concerned.)   

 

[sm1lodon]

Still, I maintain, the ban is useless, UNLESS they just want foreigners... to feel unwelcome.

I don't think the people who put out those posters feel that having no immigration at all would really have a deleterious effect on the health of the country at all.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Fair enough.  If that's how it came across, I apologise.  (The SVP are the brown shirts, as far as I'm concerned.) 

Agree completely.

 

[Greymatters]

Fair enough.  If that's how it came across, I apologise.  (The SVP are the brown shirts, as far as I'm concerned.) 

The docs Ive read on this org describe them mostly as democratic conservative - is there a credible link to post-WW2 brownshirt-type parties?

 

[Sythen]

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20110708/euro-human-rights-court-swiss-minarets-ban-challenge-dismissed-110708/

GENEVA — The European Court of Human Rights on Friday dismissed a challenge by Muslim groups to Switzerland's minaret building ban.

A panel of seven judges with the Strasbourg, France-based, court ruled that the people filing the lawsuits couldn't claim to be victims. The ruling's timing coincided with the Muslim day of prayer.

Swiss voters overwhelmingly approved a constitutional ban on minarets in 2009 that barred any more construction of the iconic mosque towers.

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Just a small update on this from CTV.

 

[vonGarvin]

The ruling's timing coincided with the Muslim day of prayer.

As an aside, this sentence has no place in the story.  At sundown today, it will be Sabbat (for Jews), and 8 July is the anniversary of the day that SS Unterscharführer Franz Staudegger, commanding a Panzerkampfwagen VI E ("Tiger") knocked out 22 T-34s (he was facing 50) at the Battle of Kursk.  So bloody what.....

 

[larry Strong]

As an aside, this sentence has no place in the story.  At sundown today, it will be Sabbat (for Jews), and 8 July is the anniversary of the day that SS Unterscharführer Franz Staudegger, commanding a Panzerkampfwagen VI E ("Tiger") knocked out 22 T-34s (he was facing 50) at the Battle of Kursk.  So bloody what.....

Interesting tidbit of Cliff Clavinesque information  ;D

 

[vonGarvin]

Interesting tidbit of Cliff Clavinesque information  ;D

;D

I knew that on 08 July, 1943, the Battle of Kursk was raging into its 3rd full day.  A quick search for an interesting fact from the battle on that day yielded said info