Supply Tech Ettiquette

[GO!!!]

I agree with you GO reg force should have the better stuff. But i just want to Clarify that we (or at least our unit) trains One weekend a month, and courses, so it depends on how keen the troop is, for some reservist you could be using your kit a lot of times,

I'm not saying that the regs should always have better stuff. In a perfect world, we would all be kitted out properly. I just think that in this army of finite resources, the kit should go where it is used most frequently.

Britney, while my unit's high speed kit fetish is increasingly well known, I for one have noticed that the militia troops I run into spend far more on average than the average troopie in the 3rd, with certain units looking like they are sponsored by Oakley, Snugpak and Kifaru. I find this amusing, because I use my kit alot, but a $700 ruck is still too much!!

 

[chrisf]

I'm not saying that the regs should always have better stuff. In a perfect world, we would all be kitted out properly. I just think that in this army of finite resources, the kit should go where it is used most frequently.

I figure I spent around 50+ days in the field during 2005 as a reservist, so I resent the suggestion that reservists do one exercise a year, because there are a good many of us who do a great deal more, though you're probably right about many, but I certainly agree that the reg force should have the priority in terms of kit issue, simply for preparedness...

Generally, I've never had any problems with supply (I figure I've been quite lucky in that regard), but I've watched plenty of problems... there needs to be some degree of latitude allowed (Actually, I'm quite sure there is some degree of latitude allowed, the pers in these two following examples were likely just dealing with unreasonable individuals).

First example was when a buddy of mine went to either to exchange his IECS jacket recently, there was a tear in it (In the outer layer, didn't puncture the goretex if I remember right), or get a sewing kit issued so he could fix it himself. The supply tech behind the counter, took the jacket, disapeared into the back, and returned without a replacement, because none were in stock, nor were there any in a reasonably close size. He was also told he couldn't repair it himself (As is standard with goretex kit). He was also told that he couldn't have the torn jacket back to wear as is. When he asked the supply tech what he was supposed to do without a jacket, they shrugged and replied "Guess you're lucky it's not winter."

Second example was a new private trying to get wind pants issued, our unit QM was out of the old style wind pants, and the base QM only issued the IECS windpants. The new private had to do his BMQ training exercise in the winter the upcoming weekend, and because the base QM couldn't issue him the IECS windpants, he had to do it with no windpants.

 

[armyvern]

I figure I spent around 50+ days in the field during 2005 as a reservist, so I resent the suggestion that reservists do one exercise a year, because there are a good many of us who do a great deal more, though you're probably right about many, but I certainly agree that the reg force should have the priority in terms of kit issue, simply for preparedness...

In all fairness, he referred to some reservists not them all. Nevertheless, I use my ruck, webbing etc at least 50 times a year for PT purposes, let alone field time added in with that and I'm 'only' CSS. Most Reserve Units who spend alot of time in the field do find themselves higher on the priority list for the high speed kit. Witness the Tac Vest, which us Reg F CSS pers who wear it 50 times a year (and go out on Arcon etc) are only getting issued this coming January.

Generally, I've never had any problems with supply (I figure I've been quite lucky in that regard), but I've watched plenty of problems... there needs to be some degree of latitude allowed (Actually, I'm quite sure there is some degree of latitude allowed, the pers in these two following examples were likely just dealing with unreasonable individuals).

And no, there is no latitude allowed from the scales. And there shouldn't be, again unless YOUR trade justifies it. Why? Because if we did allow a little latitude every Tom Dick and Harry would feed us BS stories about WHY he desperately deserves and requires the kit. We've heard all the stories before. Trust me. Every single Unit/Trade/Individual thinks they ARE the exception to the rule and the 'special circumstance' unfortunately all the trades/Units/Individuals usually quote the exact same stories/reasonings/examples as to why they are the exception; thereby making none of them 'exceptional.' You are not as 'unique' as you like to believe.

I don't see any latitude in your two examples below....

First example was when a buddy of mine went to either to exchange his IECS jacket recently, there was a tear in it (In the outer layer, didn't puncture the goretex if I remember right), or get a sewing kit issued so he could fix it himself. The supply tech behind the counter, took the jacket, disapeared into the back, and returned without a replacement, because none were in stock, nor were there any in a reasonably close size. He was also told he couldn't repair it himself (As is standard with goretex kit). He was also told that he couldn't have the torn jacket back to wear as is. When he asked the supply tech what he was supposed to do without a jacket, they shrugged and replied "Guess you're lucky it's not winter."

Absolutley no latitude here. He is not allowed to repair gortex. Read your CANFORGEN's. As a matter of fact, the only qualified person to repair gortex is a Mat Tech sitting in my Clothing Stores here on Base. He fixes hundreds of IECS/ICE items a day trying to get them back into the system. IECS is no longer made as it is being replaced by ICE, therefore there are critical shortages of it being experienced (again all this info is available in CANFORGENs). As your buddy can not wear a torn jacket downtown in public etc, the Sup Tech had no choice but to retain the NS item. He more than likely offered to re-issue your buddy the old OG combat jacket as a replacement (which is the standard right now due to the critical shortages..info also avail in the CANFORGENs) but your buddy probably refused to take one, which is exactly what happens here 9 times out of 10 when we need to offer the OG cbt jacket instead. I've got Reg Force 1st line field infanteers wearing combat jackets right now.

Second example was a new private trying to get wind pants issued, our unit QM was out of the old style wind pants, and the base QM only issued the IECS windpants. The new private had to do his BMQ training exercise in the winter the upcoming weekend, and because the base QM couldn't issue him the IECS windpants, he had to do it with no windpants.

No latitude here either. This friend is not entitled to IECS until BMQ qualified. When there's not enough of them out there to kit entitled pers, you really think we should issue it to someone who's not entitled? This would just cause a hell of a lot more complaints/problems. IE...but so and so got one how come I can't etc etc ad naseum.
Your QM is obviously out of stock of windpants, I would wager that they also told this guy, we're out of stock right now, check back next week and see if they're in yet. There's no critical shortages of windpants being experienced.

Perhaps your buddies also failed to mention that the Sup Techs more than likely also demanded the items they required specificly for them via an MSO140? Maybe they just put out that they couldn't get the high speed Gucci kit as an interim measure? There's a reason for that too....they'd never give it back once their 'entitled' item which was MSO140'd for them arrived, one of the very big reasons why there's no latitiude allowed.

Hate to come off sounding like the gricnh that so many pers love to believe we Sup Techs (especially those of us in Clothing) are...but again, there's always 2 sides to every story. And, believe you me, they always make the Sup Tech out to be the offender, which I assure you from the experience of having a barrack box tossed over the counter at me...usually isn't the case.

Yeah, the guy got handed a can of spray paint and asked to take his barrack box outside and paint over his markings to which he promptly threw his barrack box over the counter at us and said "I don't have time for you people to screw me around" and stomped out of the building. I picked up the barrack box and went outside and placed it next to his auto and smiled and said "you might want to take this with you Sir...it's still on your charge!!" and then I went back into the building.

Not 20 minutes later I was getting an irate phone call from someone up the Chain wanting to know why "Clothing Stores" had refused to serve a customer" and that "it was not acceptable customer service yada yada yada." I then gave the caller the actual sequence of events and the names of other customer's who had witnessed it who at that very time were writing up statements for me. What kind of an asshat would do something like this and then actually go back to work and make a formal complaint about us when there were witness' to what actually occured?? Needless, the tables turned very quickly.

Guess who won??  ;D  Guess what happened to him!! >

 

[medicineman]

      I rarely seem to have problems at clothing or supply in general - however, I always ensure I'm in a good mood, have a smile on my face and am polite to enth degree when I go there.  It seems to work for me - you get more with a little sugar than with a lemon.  That way, even if the tech says no you can't have this, it's not one of those times where I'm going to ask for the supervisor and have a little chat.  I get an explanation as to why and that usually will suffice - not something that turns into a two way temper tantrum.  Had a good experience the ofther day actually - went to draw some weapons and went to the wrong building - I was having a bad Friday morning - even though I got the 4 headed alien look from about 4 people, they tracked down what was needed, where it was and made sure I knew where to go - not a problem.  Alot of people I know and work with usually have the opposite reaction...

MM

 

[chrisf]

In all fairness, he referred to some reservists not them all. Nevertheless, I use my ruck, webbing etc at least 50 times a year for PT purposes, let alone field time added in with that and I'm 'only' CSS. Most Reserve Units who spend alot of time in the field do find themselves higher on the priority list for the high speed kit. Witness the Tac Vest, which us Reg F CSS pers who wear it 50 times a year (and go out on Arcon etc) are only getting issued this coming January.And no, there is no latitude allowed from the scales. And there shouldn't be, again unless YOUR trade justifies it. Why? Because if we did allow a little latitude every Tom Dick and Harry would feed us BS stories about WHY he desperately deserves and requires the kit. We've heard all the stories before. Trust me. Every single Unit/Trade/Individual thinks they ARE the exception to the rule and the 'special circumstance' unfortunately all the trades/Units/Individuals usually quote the exact same stories/reasonings/examples as to why they are the exception; thereby making none of them 'exceptional.' You are not as 'unique' as you like to believe.

I understand full well what Go!!! meant, I just like to point out that there are reservists who use their kit quite regularly.

I don't see any latitude in your two examples below....Absolutley no latitude here. He is not allowed to repair gortex. Read your CANFORGEN's. As a matter of fact, the only qualified person to repair gortex is a Mat Tech sitting in my Clothing Stores here on Base. He fixes hundreds of IECS/ICE items a day trying to get them back into the system. IECS is no longer made as it is being replaced by ICE, therefore there are critical shortages of it being experienced (again all this info is available in CANFORGENs). As your buddy can not wear a torn jacket downtown in public etc, the Sup Tech had no choice but to retain the NS item. He more than likely offered to re-issue your buddy the old OG combat jacket as a replacement (which is the standard right now due to the critical shortages..info also avail in the CANFORGENs) but your buddy probably refused to take one, which is exactly what happens here 9 times out of 10 when we need to offer the OG cbt jacket instead. I've got Reg Force 1st line field infanteers wearing combat jackets right now.No latitude here either. This friend is not entitled to IECS until BMQ qualified. When there's not enough of them out there to kit entitled pers, you really think we should issue it to someone who's not entitled? This would just cause a hell of a lot more complaints/problems. IE...but so and so got one how come I can't etc etc ad naseum.
Your QM is obviously out of stock of windpants, I would wager that they also told this guy, we're out of stock right now, check back next week and see if they're in yet. There's no critical shortages of windpants being experienced.

He wasn't aware of the repair policy on the goretex jackets, which really isn't the point, he knew after the visit that he wasn't allowed to repair it. The point is, the jacket was taken, with no offer of any sort of replacement (Not even the old combat jacket), just a shrug and the words "You're lucky it's not winter". A new jacket was ordered.

In my oppinion, the rip was mostly cosmetic, as the goretex wasn't pierced, and really not all that noticable anyway (He'd been wearing it with the rip for quite some time prior, we were on course at the time, and he was ordered to get it exchanged during an inspection). Seems to me in this case, it's not up to the supply tech whether the individual can or can't wear the damaged item (Or is it? Because I have to admit, I'm not 100% familiar with all the policies of supply). Seems to me instead that that would be up to an individual's Sargeant-Major. (On a side note, interestingly enough, when the course Warrant went with my buddy, a no-hook private at the time, to supply the next day, and spoke with a different supply tech, there was no problem finding a replacement IECS jacket in stock).

Reference the windpants, we'd been told at that point they couldn't get more windpants in, when you're referring to no shortages, you are referring to the old style (pre-IECS) windpants?

Perhaps your buddies also failed to mention that the Sup Techs more than likely also demanded the items they required specificly for them via an MSO140? Maybe they just put out that they couldn't get the high speed Gucci kit as an interim measure? There's a reason for that too....they'd never give it back once their 'entitled' item which was MSO140'd for them arrived, one of the very big reasons why there's no latitiude allowed.

I'm not sure what an MSO140 is, though if by that you mean they ordered more kit, then yes, see above.

Hate to come off sounding like the gricnh that so many pers love to believe we Sup Techs (especially those of us in Clothing) are...but again, there's always 2 sides to every story. And, believe you me, they always make the Sup Tech out to be the offender, which I assure you from the experience of having a barrack box tossed over the counter at me...usually isn't the case.

No, you don't come off sounding as a grinch, you come off sounding as an extremely informed and competent supply tech, which is a good thing, really, I've never had any personal problems with supply, particularly not with supply techs, just general irritations with the system at large.

And the thought of somone tossing a barracks box at you is just plain ridiculous, one can only hope the individual got what they deserved.

 

[Old Ranger]

What kind of an asshat would do something like this and then actually go back to work and make a formal complaint about us when there were witness' to what actually occured??

It was probably someone's inner artist comming out; by this action they will be able to paint all the Barrack Boxes to their hearts content ;D

 

[TN2IC]

Is there some type of rule saying certain trades or components get different quality of equipment?
What the hell is up with that guys?
IS there some unspoken rule that certain trades or components don't deserve the same quality of equipment as someone else?
i'm not even going to argue the obvious point about who will depend on the equipment more in my example.

I've walked in, asked a supply tech soldier for something and they've said no. A few days later i'd ask one of the civilians who work there (having gone back for something else) and most of the time they say yes.

It's almost like it's up to the individual supply techs disgression.

If you have new equipment and a soldier   comes in your place to exchange something give them the best equipment they can get. Don't play games with the crap.

I find some Sup Techs are let's say I can't type it cause I will be banned on this site. No more comments on the issue for me.

 

[westernarmymember]

"I find some Sup Techs are let's say I can't type it cause I will be banned on this site. No more comments on the issue for me."


As with every trade, Supply has it's share of poor soldiers and tradesmen. I would suggest that if you have a problem with a specific soldier you ask to see a supervisor and explain to him/her your dissatisfaction. If you do not receive an acceptable answer, seek guidance from your C of C. Remember, respect begets respect. A temper tantrum at the counter directed at a jr soldier following direction from his/her supervisor is no different than a temper tantrum at a checkpoint directed at a jr member of a combat arms unit who is simply checking ID as he/she is told. If your complaint is legitimate, a call to the Supply Coy Sgt-Maj from your own Sgt-Maj will produce amazing results. If my staff is being unprofessional, I will deal with that. If you are being unprofessional, I assure you your Sgt-Maj will deal with you. We are all here to do a job and accomplish a mission, let's try to do it professionally, shall we?

 

[Scott57]

a call to the Supply Coy Sgt-Maj from your own Sgt-Maj will produce amazing result

Exactly.

 

[9Tiger9]

Finally A truly engaging thread and the true bane of my military existence. I simply don't understand the logic behind the supply tech, we train all our soldiers to be independent? Freethinking and problem solvers??? is this not the Canadian way? The how come our supply techs are so dogmatic you think you were dealing with the inner cloisters of the catholic church not a supply tech trying to get a new pair of socks??? Why is it that young un-trained reservist are alloted gortex, tac vests. etc text..................While students at RMC, the battle schools and other reg force installations are forced to use antiquated equipment???

 

[Good2Golf]

Finally A truly engaging thread and the true bane of my military existence. I simply don't understand the logic behind the supply tech, we train all our soldiers to be independent? Freethinking and problem solvers??? is this not the Canadian way? The how come our supply techs are so dogmatic you think you were dealing with the inner cloisters of the catholic church not a supply tech trying to get a new pair of socks??? Why is it that young un-trained reservist are alloted gortex, tac vests. etc text..................While students at RMC, the battle schools and other reg force installations are forced to use antiquated equipment???

1. ...because that reservist might need the kit as part of his training too, and it's in stock in his loc.
2. ...antiquated equipment?
3. ...I have yet to see an OCdt down at RMC not walking around in CADPAT Goretex jackets in the winter when you're not in 5's.

I think Armyvern made a good case in point for some of the things 911s have to deal with.  I've seen folks (many of them further up than my pay grade) acting rather poorly towards a sup tech...not very impressive.  If you figure that you personally might see a supply tech maybe an accumulated few hours a year, imagine it the other way around.  I'm not saying that issuing kit isn't their job, but the conditions (social interaction) under which they often must do so would pose a challenge in tolerance to many here.  I think it's a natural tendancy to comlain about when things don't go right. 

I can honestly say I have never had a sup tech be pissy with me or show any snarkiness or disrespect.  Just because someone's behind the counter doesn't give people the right to talk down to them.  If something's going on, just remember....it takes two to tango.

Cheers,
Duey

 

[mover1]

I Like supply techs so much I married one, Thought that it would have the effect of me getting all the Gucci Kit, it doesn't, If I have it and I am not entitled to it then she gets in the deep KA-Ka. There are rules to follow in supply, just because you think you have a need for it doens't mean your entitled.

 

[westernarmymember]

Finally A truly engaging thread and the true bane of my military existence. I simply don't understand the logic behind the supply tech, we train all our soldiers to be independent? Freethinking and problem solvers??? is this not the Canadian way? The how come our supply techs are so dogmatic you think you were dealing with the inner cloisters of the catholic church not a supply tech trying to get a new pair of socks??? Why is it that young un-trained reservist are alloted gortex, tac vests. etc text..................While students at RMC, the battle schools and other reg force installations are forced to use antiquated equipment???

[

So by this you mean to say that because an individual has guidelines and direction to follow then they are not to be considered a free thinker? I wonder how your C of C reacts when you do not follow guidelines and/or direction given you? I think your comment is truly ridiculous. We, as tradesmen, fully understand what the Cbt Arms soldiers and Reservists do for a living. Do you really believe that all Sup Techs just want to keep kit on a shelf so they can count it? Some Sup Techs, including myself, save served with Cbt Arms units side by side in a trench with our Cbt Arms brothers (15 years with the Cbt Arms). The majority would prefer to give you anything you ask for but they are required to act according to established guidelines. It is amazing how many people say "just break the rules". The Canadian military is still, believe it or not, an organization built on discipline. You have your rules to follow, so do we!

 

[TN2IC]

"I find some Sup Techs are let's say I can't type it cause I will be banned on this site. No more comments on the issue for me."


As with every trade, Supply has it's share of poor soldiers and tradesmen. I would suggest that if you have a problem with a specific soldier you ask to see a supervisor and explain to him/her your dissatisfaction. If you do not receive an acceptable answer, seek guidance from your C of C. Remember, respect begets respect. A temper tantrum at the counter directed at a jr soldier following direction from his/her supervisor is no different than a temper tantrum at a checkpoint directed at a jr member of a combat arms unit who is simply checking ID as he/she is told. If your complaint is legitimate, a call to the Supply Coy Sgt-Maj from your own Sgt-Maj will produce amazing results. If my staff is being unprofessional, I will deal with that. If you are being unprofessional, I assure you your Sgt-Maj will deal with you. We are all here to do a job and accomplish a mission, let's try to do it professionally, shall we?

That is a good answer. I find Respect in the military will get you better results. Respect them and they shall in return. Hot heads don't get you everywheres...I know myself... I had a little "conflict" with some Supply personal before.. but as I say... Respect for him/her and they shall respect you and help you out the best.

 

[9Tiger9]

It is very easy to slander and create a negative stereotype of a group of individuals; However, within each stereo type comes some element of truth. My previous comment, comes not from personal openion ref

to be independent? Freethinking and problem solvers??? is this not the Canadian way? The how come our supply techs are so dogmatic

However one taken from a former supply tech. Is it then rational to then argue that some of these underlying "myths" or elements of truth must exist with in the CF? They don't just seem to come out of no where? As for the previous statement

So by this you mean to say that because an individual has guidelines and direction to follow then they are not to be considered a free thinker? I wonder how your C of C reacts when you do not follow guidelines and/or direction given you? I think your comment is truly ridiculous. We, as tradesmen, fully understand what the Cbt Arms soldiers and Reservists do for a living. Do you really believe that all Sup Techs just want to keep kit on a shelf so they can count it? Some Sup Techs, including myself, save served with Cbt Arms units side by side in a trench with our Cbt Arms brothers (15 years with the Cbt Arms). The majority would prefer to give you anything you ask for but they are required to act according to established guidelines. It is amazing how many people say "just break the rules". The Canadian military is still, believe it or not, an organization built on discipline. You have your rules to follow, so do we!

does this include issuing a rather poor ground sheet to a soldier who obviously needs a functional one?

watched a regular force logistics officer stand at the counter and trade in his shelter half.  The guy at the counter took the ratty hoochie went to the back and brought the officer a brand new one no questions asked no problems. the next guy in line, an infantry corporal wanted to exchange his hoochie. The guy behind the counter grilled him about it. Whats wrong with it bla bla bla. It leaks and it's ripped? wheres the rip?  The guy ginally decides to exchange it heads  to the back, stops, asks the corporal if he's regular force.
No?
The guy behind the counter bends down and starts fishing through a little box or bin full of used shelter halfs and brings the kid one that looked even worse than the one he was trading in.

Perhaps I overstepped my boundaries but my judgment of this situation comes from multiple criticisms from utpncm's, commissioned officers, NC Ms both in 911 and not. So perhaps it is not a great oversight in an Officer Cadets judgment, but rather a common fallacy?

 

[armylog]

I am a Supply Technician and I have a few answers for you guys.

First of all, the issues with Clothing Stores are usually the result of a moody Supply Tech behind the desk... also, for some reason, A LOT of Supply Techs at clothing stores seem to believe that the kit is their personnal responsability, which it is, but you shouldn't over-protect your stock.  I mean, they shouldn't issue bad kit so that they can keep the good one for officers (there's one at every unit).

Behind the scenes, what you DON'T see is that those guys that treat officers better (better kit, more service, faster response, etc) are usually not very appreciated by their peers (who are NCM's).  Eventually, the hard-working, and FAIR supply tech is the one getting the promotion (or the posting to a sweet a$$ unit / base)

As for the docs online, I can clarify that a bit.  I don't know for reservists, but for us Reg Force dudes, all our kit (unless it's unit-specific, which implies a 638) is online, through the supply system (CFSS : Canadian Forces Supply System).

It's a good, albeit kinda flawed, application we use for ALMOST all our tasks (requesting items from the depot, transfering stuff from one unit to another, buying stuff from a civilian company, etc).  I basically have the possibility of reviewing every single soldier's clothing equipment list. If I worked at a clothing stores, I could review a person's docs (using his service #) and see what he's missing, what he has, etc.

Good tool.


Any questions about Supply, feel free to ask me, I love my work and I'd be glad to help.

 

[armylog]

I am a former sup teck and it has been a couple of years since I used the CFSS upgrade (supply computer system) but I seem to recall that I could only check the clothing docs of personell in my district.

Armylog

 

[armyvern]

It is very easy to slander and create a negative stereotype of a group of individuals; However, within each stereo type comes some element of truth. My previous comment, comes not from personal openion ref  However one taken from a former supply tech.

Good then. Let's now get on with the stereotypical remarks about Officer Cadets, Reserves, MPs, Truckers, Siggies etc etc. Give me a break. Let's especially get into the stereotypical view "Clothing Stores Customer."

If you're not entitled folks; you're not entitled. Address it through your CoC to change the scale of entitlement and try to make a difference...elsewise build a bridge and get over it...please. Your remarks in this thread are doing nothing to convince us Sup Techs that most of our sterotypical clothing stores customers are anything but whiners.

STEROTYPES are NOT the norm and usually come from a 'slanted' view versus both sides of the story. Take a step back and think about your attitudes or else come work the counter for a day to see how you manage to make out. Isn't is too easy to slam a trade that's not yours?

 

[armyvern]

I am a former sup teck and it has been a couple of years since I used the CFSS upgrade (supply computer system) but I seem to recall that I could only check the clothing docs of personell in my district.
Armylog

With the Stream II upgrade we now have global access to electronic docs and can view the clothing docs of anyone assigned a Service Number.

 

[TN2IC]

Armyvern.... do you deal with Specailty orders? If so...I think I know you... Sgt....... ah... draws blank.... damn it... bad with names...