Status on Victoria-class Submarines?

[Karel Doorman]

Our future choices are:

French/Aussie

Japanese

Stretched German

I suspect the first 2 will meet our needs, the Stretched German one might be on the small side.

You forgot the A-26 ER.

And i think(only a personal thought)that the Shortfin will be to big/expensive for Canada.

 

[Uzlu]

And i think(only a personal thought)that the Shortfin will be to big/expensive for Canada.

Yes, it is big and expensive.  But it also appears to be a very impressive design.  https://www.naval-group.com/en/news/dcns-unveils-smx-ocean-a-new-blue-water-ssk-with-expanded-capabilities/

 

[Colin Parkinson]

If our government had large balls, order 6 French Nuclear attack subs. France does all of the refueling and disposal. Other maintenance is done in Canada. Do not use an ITAR equipment in them if possible. We then told everyone including the US that we are serious about our sovereignty and Canada suddenly becomes a real player on the board. We would need 6 just to keep 2 subs on ops, 2 in training/workup and 2 in overhaul. 

 

[CBH99]

You left out "used subs from the West Edmonton Mall".

Those were taken out of service years ago.  Unfortunately.  =(

 

[Colin Parkinson]

https://bcbooklook.com/2014/10/20/top-secret%C2%AD-we-built-submarines-in-burnaby/

https://aquaticasubmarines.com/

https://ise.bc.ca/

these were built in Vancouver as well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantis_Submarines

 

[dapaterson]

Those were taken out of service years ago.  Unfortunately.  =(

You mean like the Upholders

 

[MarkOttawa]

It should be recognized that with the very expensive new fighter (and likely some other aircraft types eventually) and CSC procurements no gov't will want to spend money on new subs for a long time to come (if ever); by that time there should be some new models on the market.  In any event no gov't is going to go nuclear-powered.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Colin Parkinson]

As i said that have to have balls and fairly large ones at that.........  ;D

 

[Eye In The Sky]

If our government had large balls, order 6 French Nuclear attack subs. France does all of the refueling and disposal. Other maintenance is done in Canada. Do not use an ITAR equipment in them if possible. We then told everyone including the US that we are serious about our sovereignty and Canada suddenly becomes a real player on the board. We would need 6 just to keep 2 subs on ops, 2 in training/workup and 2 in overhaul.

Any particular reason you picked French ones over, say, the Astute class or something?

 

[Karel Doorman]

Any particular reason you picked French ones over, say, the Astute class or something?

That(the seemingly French preference),and the thing about "going nuclear"(but could be wrong here.   ) even the Australians don't go "there"(it's because it's very expensive and you"ll need a big budget to do so,and this is where things go "wrong",),besides the political will(of which there's very little)to do so,

Again,my thoughts, are that if(and when)Canada should decide to replace the "Vics",they will probably go the "conventional"route,as will we here in the Netherlands.(along with the Australians),both of these countries are in the proces of replacing their sub fleet,We have to decide what we will be getting(probably the A-26 ER),the Australians will get the Shortfin.(only question is when)

I think (but again,my thoughts)Canada will look towards what Australia(but this option is probably to costly) and the Neteherlands are doing,because(and this is the simple fact of the matter)those are the only "NATO"(Australia isn't,but "NATO and Australia signalled their commitment to strengthening cooperation.) members with conventionals that have "long legs"(and Canada needs and wants the same)

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Any particular reason you picked French ones over, say, the Astute class or something?

Less ITAR issues and less chance the US could interfere.

 

[Dale Denton]

Why not 6 A26's? Have the option of VLS/TLAMs. Seem to be lots of advances in Japan with their batteries too. Tack on 6 orders once Sweden is partly done with building their 2. Build them over their, add a maintenance contract with a Cdn yard.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Do we want true *bluewater* boats, or just littoral/coastal ones more suited for the stuff in close to Canada?  I think that is the first question...what do we want to do with them.  That should help determine #s and class.

 

[OceanBonfire]

Refit to put Victoria-class sub at 'cutting edge' of technology

Wells Gaetz, CTV Vancouver Island
Published Monday, January 21, 2019

HMCS Corner Brook, the navy's workhorse submarine, is undergoing a massive retrofit at the Esquimalt Graving Dock. Jan. 21, 2019. (CTV Vancouver Island)

HMCS Corner Brook, a long range hunter-killer Canadian submarine, is in dry dock undergoing a complete overhaul in Esquimalt.

The Victoria-class submarine is halfway through its retrofit, barely recognizable, shrouded in scaffolding and protective wrap.

Once completed, the sub will be outfitted with state-of-the-art technology and will better able to patrol Canadian coastlines.

CTV News was able to get a look at the project Monday, which is halfway to completion.

"Corner Brook will essentially be a brand new submarine," said Cmdr. Mike Mangin. "So this really puts the Victoria-class submarines at the cutting edge of submarine technology."

The upgrades include a new mast system and military satellite communications antenna.

Following the refit, the sub is estimated to be back in service for another 15 years. The work should be complete by early 2020.

https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/hunter-killer-sub-hmcs-corner-brook-undergoes-massive-retrofit-1.4263103

 

[MilEME09]

15 years? I wonder if the pressure hull can take another 15 years of wear and tare.

 

[larry Strong]

15 years? I wonder if the pressure hull can take another 15 years of wear and tare.

Do the hulls have a shelf life? Are they governed by a formula using the depths sailed and the time spent at such depths. or something to that effect?


Asked by a landlubber.... 


Cheers
Larry

 

[Edward Campbell]

Do the hulls have a shelf life? Are they governed by a formula using the depths sailed and the time spent at such depths. or something to that effect?


Asked by a landlubber.... 


Cheers
Larry

Great question!

I see that (just some?) aircraft carriers have a design life of 50 years and that the venerable B-52, which was designed and went into initial production in the 1950s might still be flying in 2050!

How long can a submarine be kept in service? Is there one key 'driver' to establish service life?

 

[Uzlu]

How long can a submarine be kept in service?

Ohio is to be retired in 2029—about forty-eight years after commissioning.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Great question!

I see that (just some?) aircraft carriers have a design life of 50 years and that the venerable B-52, which was designed and went into initial production in the 1950s might still be flying in 2050!

How long can a submarine be kept in service? Is there one key 'driver' to establish service life?

Hopefully, I do not stray too far outside of my lane, but I have been led to believe that it is a function of what kind of steel that was used in the construction of the pressure hull (strength vs brittleness), how many cycles to depth the submarine has had and what how much life the through hull fittings have left (they are replaceable, but each have finite lives measured in 'x' years (not cycles to depth). The submarine hull must every 5 years (IIRC) be assessed and either it gets a new dive certificate or it does not and work has to be done to fix the problem (every problem can be fixed, if you have an unlimited budget, which Canada does not have).

In short, there is not an easy answer to that question.

That is my (probably shaky) understanding of submarine fatigue life, assembled over several years and many beers. I am more than willing to be corrected on any point, by those more knowledgeable than I.

 

[Journeyman]

….assembled over several years and many beers.

Hey, I recognize the methodology.    :nod:

  :cheers: