Some Canadian Forces entry points unguarded due to budget cuts

[JorgSlice]

CBC should come drive through CFB Calgary (well, the sad landscape of its remnants). The road way that would usually be the MP Guardhouse is empty, it now has a contract security company sign plastered to it, free access to anyone who so desires to travel and loiter there. The only Commissionaire at Currie Barracks is a Mon-Fri 8-4 guy who does the NDIs in the 1 MP Regt Det CGY office in the "Taj Mahal" (General Waters Bldg).

Then at Mewata... You're lucky to see a Commissionaire too... However it is a much more secure facility (albeit a different sense of secure).

And this was WAY before this became "news"

(Sorry if I've gone over the OPSEC/PERSEC, feel free to flog me and trim )

 

[medicineman]

I can say I would have much rather been doing Force Protection Guard Commander as Base Duty WO/POOD in Esquimalt than the glorified adult babysitting service I was basically used for in Nellie's Block...just my opinion of course.

MM

 

[upandatom]

All well and good however at a number of bases, Edm/Wpg/Esq for example the PMQ patch is outside the base. Are you proposing that the duty watch drive the PMQ patch?

Why not? Its rounds? BASF/WASF will do the same thing, adding security and points, perimeter checks, Task a CFR to it. 9/10 times the duties will fall on a weekend/weeknight, day is not needed as much because Military members are at work, CE running around the base, families are up and stirring, saying that, have a look in compounds and see the vehicles sitting there. Understandable the associated costs with maintenance and fuel etc.

Not trying to bash MPs here, but 1 squad car running around every couple of hours doesnt do alot preventative wise.  Especially on a base like Kingston they have alot to deal with like DUI check points to CFSCE, Niagara Park or to the shacks.

Although I have never been to those other bases, one I am at now is seperated, I doubt the PMQs are more then a 15 min drive during night time and weekends to avoid traffic. I dont see those PMQs being more then a 30 min drive from the respective bases. IF they are then I am sure there are other possibilities.

That seems more like a culture of apathy. Most military folks that live in the 'Qs know pretty much who is supposed to be there and who's not.

I've seen many cabbies in Kingston who sit in empty parking lots on Base waiting for a fare been asked to leave by military members.

As for being sacked on duty shortly after an Ex...shitty mate. Poor planning by rear party.

Garrison MPs are also pretty visible as well....and cameras are plentiful around public areas. If you don't notice them they're doing the job, right?

I have seen them being asked to leave as well, and being in/from Kingston, you know that a fair amount of PMQs have been removed and left alot of the area open and not used roads with easy access to members backyards. At night time, pretty easy to go yard shopping.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

CBC should come drive through CFB Calgary (well, the sad landscape of its remnants). The road way that would usually be the MP Guardhouse is empty, it now has a contract security company sign plastered to it, free access to anyone who so desires to travel and loiter there. The only Commissionaire at Currie Barracks is a Mon-Fri 8-4 guy who does the NDIs in the 1 MP Regt Det CGY office in the "Taj Mahal" (General Waters Bldg).

Then at Mewata... You're lucky to see a Commissionaire too... However it is a much more secure facility (albeit a different sense of secure).

And this was WAY before this became "news"

(Sorry if I've gone over the OPSEC/PERSEC, feel free to flog me and trim )

Sad to say but CFB Calgary is non existant.  The land is no longer ours so asking CBC to come drive through a civilian area would do nothing. 

As for security in the two buildings that are left, the unit members themselves will ask questions should anyone look "off".  Having the MFRC and other government agencies in our buildings makes for interesting people waling around. The commissionaire?  He could probably be replaced by one of the MPs.

CFB Gagetown has had token commissionaires for over a decade, this is a non issue.

 

[Jacky Tar]

So I spend a month or so gone on exercise or on course come home and first weekend back I get a nice base duty, doesn't matter if it is only once every 2-3 months or only twice a year that coupled with regimental duty just adds another level of f**kery on top of what is already there. Now you can argue well it is poor planning on who ever does the duty schedule to put you on duty right after you get back but it happens more times than not.

There's a metric shitload of sailors who come home from 3, 4, 5 month deployments and go back to a 1-in-10 rotation alongside. Some poor sod has to be duty first day in. I'd give my left nut to be in 1 every 2 or 3 months.

 

[MeanJean]

There's a metric shitload of sailors who come home from 3, 4, 5 month deployments and go back to a 1-in-10 rotation alongside. Some poor sod has to be duty first day in. I'd give my left nut to be in 1 every 2 or 3 months.

Left nut for a duty watch every two to three months? Count me in!  The only break we get is when we return from a major deployment, either a six month NATO or time in Arabian sea.  Even then we take our leave and return to the duty watch rotation after a month. 

 

[Jacky Tar]

Left nut for a duty watch every two to three months? Count me in!  The only break we get is when we return from a major deployment, either a six month NATO or time in Arabian sea.  Even then we take our leave and return to the duty watch rotation after a month.

That's what I'm saying. Someone farther up the post chain felt it was unfair to return from the field and be slotted back into a 1 in 2 or 3 month watch rotation. Duty tech onboard most ships runs about 1 in 10 days - some ships are up as much as 1 in 2 weeks, and that's considered better than average. And someone has to stand those watches when the ship gets back.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I heard rumours/2nd hand info on some ppl being on a 1-in-4 before when the ship was shorthanded and alongside.  That would suck the big one.

 

[Nostix]

Regarding duty watch on a ship, at least it's easier to reconcile the fact that you're one of a select few people with the skills and training required to respond to a threat or emergency on board a warship after hours. It's not fun, but it's readily clear why it's necessary that you be there.

There's no equivalent good feeling when you feel like someone is just saving $15 an hour by giving you extra duties on a gate.

Is it unreasonable? Probably not. Is it going to be putting smiles on any faces? Not a chance.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The avg person doing the Weekend gateguard watch is no more "able" than the folks they replaced from the Commissionaires.  Seriously.

 

[Tank Troll]

There's a metric shitload of sailors who come home from 3, 4, 5 month deployments and go back to a 1-in-10 rotation alongside. Some poor sod has to be duty first day in. I'd give my left nut to be in 1 every 2 or 3 months.

Its not my fault that you navy types guard your boats on a secure base, as far as I'm concerned that is life in your chosen trade/job. How ever how would you like to have to do guard at the main gate also? That is what we are talking about. There is no need to give any body parts to be able to only have to do duty every 1-2-3 or 6 months all you have to do is OT 

 

[Stoker]

Personally I'm glad that the decision was made to replace the commissionaires with an augmented duty watch as I believe it should be the responsibility of the military to guard their own installations.  At some gates it was a bloody joke on who was laid on as security. If the commissionaires were more concerned with the quality of the guarding services they provided vice putting anyone in with a heart beat rather than refuse a contract perhaps more contracts would have been renewed.
Now if they would get rid of the commissionaires in charge of the ID section and parking pass office at dockyard, all would be good.

 

[ARMY_101]

Commissionaires' mandate is to employ former CF and RCMP members in (arguably) meaningful tasks. In other words, it's the retirement plan for former members who want to keep "active" and do something while collecting their pension and making a bit of cash for vacations.

I also worked there for a year, and while the job was good for allowing time to do other things (school work, crosswords, puzzles...), it was also incredibly redundant. On many occasions (since I had multiple posts at multiple buildings) it seemed the purpose of the job was to fulfill the department's obligations to keep the lights on at night and ensure that one employee working until 9:00pm was safe when she walked to her car.

Very rarely was there any "security" value to having Commissionaires on duty; after all, as already mentioned, if security was a concern your response wouldn't be to hire 60 year-old men and women. In a select few cases we were clearly under the Military Police in terms of observing and reporting directly to them, but with other departments we were there as a check-in-the-box for the building's security manager.

But why would security detail be given to sailors and soldiers when we have MPs whose precise job is security and law enforcement?

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Commish are to provide eyes and ears for the MPs not make arrests. MPs mandate is to provide secure beach heads by assault boat actually

 

[Nfld Sapper]

MPs mandate is to provide secure beach heads by assault boat actually

Right...... :

 

[Jarnhamar]

I am all for using defaulters, duties. to fill this.

I guess this depends on whether we see the guys at the front gate as base duty guys (putting stupid flags up and down, unlocking doors for people who lock themselves out of shacks) or an actual security force.

Soldiers on defaulters or those who do the job once a year don't make for effective security.

Personally I'm glad that the decision was made to replace the commissionaires with an augmented duty watch as I believe it should be the responsibility of the military to guard their own installations.  At some gates it was a bloody joke on who was laid on as security. If the commissionaires were more concerned with the quality of the guarding services they provided vice putting anyone in with a heart beat rather than refuse a contract perhaps more contracts would have been renewed.
Now if they would get rid of the commissionaires in charge of the ID section and parking pass office at dockyard, all would be good.

I haven't been to many CF bases but I've found commissionares take their job more seriously than soldiers stuck on duty.

 

[Stoker]

I guess this depends on whether we see the guys at the front gate as base duty guys (putting stupid flags up and down, unlocking doors for people who lock themselves out of shacks) or an actual security force.

Soldiers on defaulters or those who do the job once a year don't make for effective security.

I haven't been to many CF bases but I've found commissionares take their job more seriously than soldiers stuck on duty.

If you mean by stupid flags up and down colors and sunset yes that's one of tasks as part of the duty watch. As for soldiers stuck on duty not taking their job seriously, well I guess that's the job of their OOD/SWK or whatever to ensure they are professional and taking it seriously.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

If you mean by stupid flags up and down colors and sunset yes that's one of tasks as part of the duty watch. As for soldiers stuck on duty not taking their job seriously, well I guess that's the job of their OOD/SWK or whatever to ensure they are professional and taking it seriously.

I'm going to guess that you and none of your ppl are tasked to the Security/Duty watch.  8)

The change of ways from Commissionaires to a duty Security watch was nothing but a cost-cutting measure, full stop.

 

[Towards_the_gap]

Commish are to provide eyes and ears for the MPs not make arrests. MPs mandate is to provide secure beach heads by assault boat actually

Are you serious?

 

[Jarnhamar]

If you mean by stupid flags up and down colors and sunset yes that's one of tasks as part of the duty watch. As for soldiers stuck on duty not taking their job seriously, well I guess that's the job of their OOD/SWK or whatever to ensure they are professional and taking it seriously.

The last time I did duty watch my most important task (it was in a memo) was to ensure the base commanders car was plugged in overnight,had to drive it a couple compounds over at night and plug it in then go and get it at 5 am and bring it back. (It's a hybrid and they freeze when it's cold.) 


Long story short, we should take base security more serious than we do. Something bad is going to happen before it gets taken seriously again.