Some Canadian Forces entry points unguarded due to budget cuts

[MikeL]

MPs mandate is to provide secure beach heads by assault boat actually

That explains this photo then

Photo of the week: "We'll meet you at the beach!"
Members from 4th Military Police Company (4 MP Coy) prepare to be dropped into St-Joseph Lake, Québec, by divers of HMCS Montcalm, during Exercise PRÉVOST INTRÉPIDE on May 12. The main objective of this exercise was to confirm the operational capacity of 4 MP Coy.

Photo by Cpl Nicolas Tremblay
CAF Imagery Number: VL2013-0079-001
Copyright © 2013 DND-MDN

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Actually it is not even in their doctrine.....

 

[Stoker]

The last time I did duty watch my most important task (it was in a memo) was to ensure the base commanders car was plugged in overnight,had to drive it a couple compounds over at night and plug it in then go and get it at 5 am and bring it back. (It's a hybrid and they freeze when it's cold.) 


Long story short, we should take base security more serious than we do. Something bad is going to happen before it gets taken seriously again.

That I do agree. We need a more robust security force at our bases.

 

[Stoker]

I'm going to guess that you and none of your ppl are tasked to the Security/Duty watch.  8)

The change of ways from Commissionaires to a duty Security watch was nothing but a cost-cutting measure, full stop.

I agree it was a cost cutting measure solely, but its too bad that poor job that some of the commissaries were doing wasn't the reason. Either way they're out of there. If the duty watch personnel are not doing their job, then its a hell of a lot easier to fix then dealing with the commissionaires.

 

[ballz]

There are a lot of civilian positions that could be cut and replaced with troops that are "doing nothing."

Commissionaires as Barrack Wardens, Commissionaires on security, maintenance of the grounds, custodial work, etc...

Of course, it'll be real sad when Ex XYZ gets cancelled because all the manpower that is supposed to be training is busy mowing the lawns and cleaning the toilets on base...

I was not around for the 90s, but this is what I was told could become the issue now that DND is looking at what civilians it can afford to lose. As it was worded to me, "soldiers were too busy doing the civilians jobs to be soldiers."

Just some food for thought... this is what comes to my mind when I see "x" position being cut and then the comments "we've got plenty of soldiers sitting around doing nothing that can do these jobs."

 

[ARMY_101]

MPs mandate is to provide secure beach heads by assault boat actually

???

I can't seem to find that in the recruiting website's description...

http://www.forces.ca/en/job/militarypolice-75#info-1

The primary responsibilities of the Military Police are to:

Support Canadian Forces missions by providing policing and operational support
Investigate and report incidents involving military or criminal offenses
Develop and apply crime prevention measures to protect military communities against criminal acts
Coordinate tasks related to persons held in custody (including military detainees and prisoners of war)
Provide security at selected Canadian embassies around the world
Provide service to the community through conflict mediation, negotiation, dispute resolution, public relations and victim assistance
Perform other policing duties, such as traffic control, traffic-accident investigation, emergency response, and liaison with Canadian, allied and other foreign police forces

 

[upandatom]

I guess this depends on whether we see the guys at the front gate as base duty guys (putting stupid flags up and down, unlocking doors for people who lock themselves out of shacks) or an actual security force.

Soldiers on defaulters or those who do the job once a year don't make for effective security.

I haven't been to many CF bases but I've found commissionares take their job more seriously than soldiers stuck on duty.

Stupid flags? Wow, that's all I have to say about that.

If you see the soldiers not taking their job and security seriously, if your in, it's your responsibility to fix that.

How do you think security and posts were manned before the commisionaires? Yes I fell bad many former serving will lose their jobs, however if it means that as the Canadian Armed Forces, we don't go back to an FRP era and remain a sustainable, dependable, reliable and deployable military, then the cuts have to be made.

Too often we cut corners in kit, training(as is being done with ACISS now). We need those funds to keep our current posture, regroup and retrain.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Great.  Why don't you get a posting to Hfx then and volunteer to man the gate at Stad all weekend.  Actually get a posting to Hfx/N6 and you will be doing the guard.  :warstory:

 

[OldSolduer]

Stupid flags? Wow, that's all I have to say about that.

If you see the soldiers not taking their job and security seriously, if your in, it's your responsibility to fix that.

How do you think security and posts were manned before the commisionaires? Yes I fell bad many former serving will lose their jobs, however if it means that as the Canadian Armed Forces, we don't go back to an FRP era and remain a sustainable, dependable, reliable and deployable military, then the cuts have to be made.

Too often we cut corners in kit, training(as is being done with ACISS now). We need those funds to keep our current posture, regroup and retrain.

And you are the voice of experience?

Great.  Why don't you get a posting to Hfx then and volunteer to man the gate at Stad all weekend.  :warstory:

Agreed, spend a weekend or so doing gate duty. Stop giving advice.

Oh I see, you're 19.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

???

I can't seem to find that in the recruiting website's description...

It's a bit of a joke. It's not their mandate yet they are doing it anyway.

 

[Tank Troll]

There are a lot of civilian positions that could be cut and replaced with troops that are "doing nothing."

Commissionaires as Barrack Wardens, Commissionaires on security, maintenance of the grounds, custodial work, etc...

Of course, it'll be real sad when Ex XYZ gets cancelled because all the manpower that is supposed to be training is busy mowing the lawns and cleaning the toilets on base...

I was not around for the 90s, but this is what I was told could become the issue now that DND is looking at what civilians it can afford to lose. As it was worded to me, "soldiers were too busy doing the civilians jobs to be soldiers."

Just some food for thought... this is what comes to my mind when I see "x" position being cut and then the comments "we've got plenty of soldiers sitting around doing nothing that can do these jobs."

How about cleaners in the shack we use have to clear our own barracks when I first got in and our own lines at K19.

Another way to cut cost is to get rid of spec pay  :worms:

 

[Old Sweat]

How about cleaners in the shack we use have to clear our own barracks when I first got in and our own lines at K19.

Another way to cut cost is to get rid of spec pay  :worms:

The elimination of a lot of the fatigues came as part of integration. Before then, in the army on a rotational basis we provided troops to work in the kitchens washing dishes and pots, setting and clearing tables, etc and we also cleaned our own barracks, although I think lawns were mowed by CE. I had the uinique experience of finishing a tour in the kitchen and being detailed as hut orderly when suddenly I was called to the adjutant to be informed I had been promoted to the rank of officer cadet and was leaving for officer training in two days. (I think the "hut slut" gig was because the CoC figured the news was coming and they wanted be to be findable in a hurry.)

 

[upandatom]

And you are the voice of experience?
Agreed, spend a weekend or so doing gate duty. Stop giving advice.

Oh I see, you're 19.

No Im not the sole voice of experience here, but I have been around and in the Military long enough, On the outside during the FRP era with both of my parents in. Seeing it on a day to day basis,

I have done gate duties, night duties, weekend duties, not because I got into Sh!t, because it was my turn.

 

[Wookilar]

:warstory: I once volunteered 17 times in a row for Base Duty Cpl. Saved a lot of people from doing that most boring of duties lol.

Which brings me to my point really. Many people have been saying that on larger bases, the duties should be spread nicely around.

There are a couple of things about that:

1) Many Adjt's/RSM's fight for more duty positions because they have any number of numpties they want to nail to provide with extra training. This can make it appear that certain units get more duties than others;

2) An unfortunate aspect of life on larger bases: duties are parcelled out proportionally (usually). If your unit has 15% of the base's population, you get 15% of the duties. However, what often happens, when said units are gone (tour, EX, whatever), their % of duties does not usually change. That leaves whatever is left of rear party to swallow the same number of duties for that period of time.

 

[Tank Troll]

An unfortunate aspect of life on larger bases: duties are parcelled out proportionally (usually). If your unit has 15% of the base's population, you get 15% of the duties. However, what often happens, when said units are gone (tour, EX, whatever), their % of duties does not usually change. That leaves whatever is left of rear party to swallow the same number of duties for that period of time.

Then you'd get back and rear party would complain about how many duties they did while you were gone, and want the guys coming home to take over immediately. One of the RSM in the Strat's put in routine orders that rear party would continue to do duties till 2 weeks after the unit returned and it was like that for many years, don't know if it is still in effect.

 

[Jacky Tar]

If you mean by stupid flags up and down colors and sunset yes that's one of tasks as part of the duty watch. As for soldiers stuck on duty not taking their job seriously, well I guess that's the job of their OOD/SWK or whatever to ensure they are professional and taking it seriously.

:goodpost:

 

[Jacky Tar]

And you are the voice of experience?
Agreed, spend a weekend or so doing gate duty. Stop giving advice.

Oh I see, you're 19.

Which doesn't make him wrong. Or if you prefer, you're not right just because you're a C.O.B.

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

Getting back to the gate security not being manned, not really  a big deal. There were 3 drive thru gates at CFB Toronto, or what ever you remember its name as.
The gate off Shepard at DCIEM was open and seldom manned, the gate that actually led to DCIEM was always manned and they  took ID cards to get a pass to be admitted the rest of the way into the compound.
After 6 PM ( I do not recall the actual timings) the drive thru gate on the East side of the base was locked.
The main gate near the Fire Hall was manned after 6 PM , but they hardly ever did more than ask where you  were going, or for ID cards. Many times had to wake up the guard to get the light to change to green.

There was a gate from the Officer PMQs and it was not manned ( locked after 11 PM if I recall right) near what was LFCA or the SIU buildings
Gate from the Enlisted PMQs  near  the ball diamonds, was not manned and open till after 11 or later depending on what  was going on the various messes.

All the walk in gates were open for foot traffic ( never found one locked late at night).
The TTC bus Shepard 84A or 84B drove thru the base, and if you rang  the bell it would let you off at various stops thru the base, ( I remember at least 3 stops in the base), no questions for ID or stopping non military or military employees from getting off the bus.


I remember chatting with some SEALs doing training at DCIEM and how they  could not believe how easy it was to come and go at CFB Toronto. They were not use to the casual system in place.


I was on the Base Security Force for exercises and the number of people who were found not to have ID or proof they were suppose to be there.  Civilians were not to be detained or delayed, more than a casual search , or questioned for than other than ID check, not to upset the union or delay them from their jobs.
I remember one of the Base Maint persons who was a civilian being stopped and put face down in a puddle during the exercise. He was wearing issue coveralls, no ID card or 404s  when stopped at the main gate driving a 5/4 ton SMP truck. The BDF guards thought he was part of the exercise , but turned out he was just test driving the truck after repairs, out one gate and in the other gate.
I remember the jokes and the laughs during the next meal break, but nothing came of it. They made sure every one driving did carry the 404s.

Manned gates are more important now but it will not stop any one from entering a base if they really want in, just might make the damage greater.
Having duty persons doing the job, might be more a better use of man power than having the extra duty man washing cars at the B Transport, or picking rocks up at the main gate. At least basic soldier skills and training will be used.

 

[mad dog 2020]

This is so ridiculous !
Military Bases being so lax, yet go near an airport.
One whack a doodle with a shoe bomb and just look at him and we are almost down to our boxers.
But airport security is BiG business and lobbied and marketed as such.  All in the presentation and sales pitch. Fear mongering. The clowns employed at Pearson are a joke and at minimum wage really how effective. (Supervisor for the firm that had the contract at one time)
I was posted to Base Security to Borden (civvies going to movies and McD's), The lisle gate if the gate guard was awake, Cornwallis which was small enough to recognize a threat, and Toronto which was dead at night.  I was in Borden during the enhanced security during the first Gulf War and BDF was deployed at the gates and on patrols. We had info to watch the schools and we did increase patrols.
I remember Pet before the separation of Operational from residential.
In our world today is our security appropriate to the true threat level or more realistic. While other segments of society have created empires of security layers.
We will really never know as being proactive is intangible to measure yet the reactive is measured in pain, heartache and sorrow.
It all boils down to cost, like insurance don't need it half the time but some glad when you do have it. Points to ponder and think when was the last direct threat and response.