Sikh & India (Alleged) Shenanigans in Canada (split fm Non-Muslim terr thread)

[KevinB]

I was part of a conversation between a few Canadians and an Indian from Africa who mentioned the issues between the two groups causing problems in Canada. I could tell that the other Canadians didn't believe him or didn't want to believe him as they may appear racist. I think that we may have to have a more realistic look into this, even if most media sources don't want to report on it.

But you are a post nstion state

 

[Kirkhill]

You never struck me as a fan of Wikileaks, Assange, Chelsea (nee Bradley) Manning, et. al.

I've been thinking about your comment. And you know? You're right.

I was perturbed at Manning.
However I think I was less perturbed at Assange and Wikileaks.

I have been changing.

I think the big difference now is:

I no longer trust governments with secrets. For me to trust governments with secrets would require me to trust the bureaucrats and politicians and they have all lost my trust.

 

[OldSolduer]

There speaks the Dark Side.

Not at all the Dark Side. How many secrets has the USSR and other non friendly nations outright stolen from the West?
You think maybe the US should have told the world “we like where UBL is and we are going to kill him in secret helicopters loaded with SEALs” ?

 

[Kirkhill]

Not at all the Dark Side. How many secrets has the USSR and other non friendly nations outright stolen from the West?
You think maybe the US should have told the world “we like where UBL is and we are going to kill him in secret helicopters loaded with SEALs” ?

There is a difference between keeping secrets and punishing those who fail to keep secrets. There is a further difference between punishment and codifying that punishment.

I have less of a problem with people keeping secrets than I have with a system that converts information into secrets that can be shared among thousands of people, if not hundreds of thousands. Those secrets are not secret.

It is kind of like guns. Only the lawful will follow the laws. Others now know where the secrets are who has them.

The secret to keeping secrets is, first of all, don't tell anyone and second, hide in plain sight. Beyond that, the secret to competitiveness is to run faster than the competition.

None of which requires a culture of information control that criminalizes the transfer of information and creates a caste of brahmins.

 

[Kirkhill]

A view from outside Canada - The Spectator (a Conservative and conservative magazine in the UK)

Jawad Iqbal

India’s row with Canada has been a long time coming​

• 19 September 2023, 5:47pm

Canada has accused India of being behind the assassination of a Sikh-Canadian citizen on its soil – an unprecedented charge to make against a democracy and fellow G7 nation. The Canadians claim to be investigating ‘credible allegations’ that Indian agents were behind the killing of Hardeep Singh Nijjar, a Sikh separatist leader. Nijjar, a Canadian citizen, was shot and killed in June outside a Sikh temple in British Columbia.
Nijjar was long wanted by the Indian authorities, who accused him of involvement in an alleged attack on a Hindu priest in India and had offered a reward for information leading to his arrest. The manner of his death was bound to arouse suspicions.
To the Indian government, this is an existential struggle against people it views as enemies of the state
‘Any involvement of a foreign government in the killing of a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil is an unacceptable violation of our sovereignty,’ Justin Trudeau, Canada’s prime minister, told parliament. He said he had personally conveyed ‘deep concerns’ to his Indian counterpart Narendra Modi at the G20 summit earlier this month. Canada also announced that it was expelling a senior Indian diplomat as a sign of the seriousness with which it viewed developments.
India was quick to dismiss the Canadian claims as ‘absurd’ and politically motivated. It showed its own displeasure by expelling a senior Canadian diplomat. The Indian foreign ministry said the move reflected ‘growing concern at the interference of Canadian diplomats in our internal matters and their involvement in anti-India activities.’

So what is actually going on here? India has long accused Canada of not doing enough to tackle a rebel movement in the country looking to establish an independent nation called Khalistan in the Indian state of Punjab, where most Sikhs live. The independence movement is banned in India itself but has been attracting growing support in Canada and other countries, including Britain, which have large Sikh diaspora populations. Canada itself is home to more than 770,000 Sikhs – about 2 per cent of the country’s total population.

India is accusing Canada of being slow to act against people it claims are Sikh extremists threatening India’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. It has also specifically accused Sikh activists in Canada of promoting violence against Indian diplomats, damaging diplomatic premises and threatening places of worship.
In the eyes of the Indian government, this is nothing less than an existential struggle against people it views as enemies of the state. Nijjar himself was branded a ‘terrorist’ by India for his pro-independence activism. Critics have, in turn, accused the Modi government of fostering a culture of intimidation, using sedition laws to crush any and every form of legitimate dissent and protest.
It is certainly true that India under Modi is no stranger to authoritarian tendencies, but the country’s fight against attempts to establish an independent Sikh state predates India’s current rulers. In 1984, Indian forces stormed the Golden Temple in Amritsar in a raid on Sikh separatists who had taken refuge there. The controversial assault led to the death of 400 Sikhs, even though activist groups claim the death toll was much higher. The controversial raid was ordered by the then prime minister, Indira Gandhi, who was assassinated shortly afterwards by two of her Sikh bodyguards. Her killing prompted a wave of anti-Sikh violence across the country, with Hindu mobs hunting down and killing Sikhs.

In fact, it is not just Modi’s government that is worried about the threat of Sikh independence. The Congress party, the main opposition party led by Rahul Gandhi, Indira’s grandson, echoed the Modi government’s stance on Indian sovereignty, saying India’s ‘fight against terrorism has to be uncompromising’. It is a rare moment of agreement between the ruling Hindu nationalists and their political opponents.

The spat between Canada and India comes at a time when relations between the two countries are already tense. Talks on a trade agreement have been paused, and a Canadian trade delegation to India, originally planned for next month, has been postponed. Other countries will be monitoring developments closely.
The White House has already said it is ‘deeply concerned’ about the Canadian allegations. Britain too will be keeping an eye on the situation, given recent events here: the Indian high commission in London was vandalised in March this year by Sikh independence activists.

India’s hostility towards the independence claims of Sikh activists is one thing. But the idea that this separatism dispute is slowly seeping into countries with large Sikh diaspora populations is a deeply troubling development.

WRITTEN BY​

Jawad Iqbal
Jawad Iqbal is a broadcaster and ex-television news executive. Jawad is a former Visiting Senior Fellow in the Institute of Global Affairs at the LSE

Is this different than the Mossad operating on Canadian or US soil? Is the Mossad different than the FSB, the MSS or even the CIA,? How about MI6?

 

[Good2Golf]

Allies all get up to go to the bathroom when India asks, ‘who else other than Canada thinks we’re out of line?’

Trudeau tempers criticism as allies decline to condemn India over slain Sikh leader

U.S. offers muted support, while U.K. plans to continue trade talks with crucial Asian power

www.theglobeandmail.com

 

[Rifleman62]

I don't trust Trudeau one bit. I think this all about changing the discussion, getting votes from a community and staying in power. To hell with Canada; it's the Liberal way.
Are there not questions on how this fellow who was killed got his citizenship?

 

[Good2Golf]

Rifleman62: -1 Social Credit Score

 

[The Bread Guy]

Some IND media takes ...

Trudeau Misguided, Nijjar’s Death Result of Gang War: Insider’s Account of India-Canada Khalistan Row | Exclusive - News18

An insider said Canada’s Intelligence agency CSIS is feeding Trudeau wrong information because they have hired radical agents on the ground

www.news18.com

Nijjar Row: Khalistani Leader Gurpatwant Singh Pannun Threatens Hindus in Canada - News18

Sikhs for Justice threatens Canadian Hindus over alleged support for India, sparking concerns of ethnic tensions amid Trudeau's remarks

www.news18.com

Who Was Hardeep Singh Nijjar? Khalistan Terrorist at Centre of India-Canada Tussle | EXPLAINED - News18

Hardeep Singh Nijjar, a member of Sikhs for Justice, was declared a 'wanted terrorist' by the government. He played a key role in organising the Khalistan referendum in Brampton

www.news18.com

Allies all get up to go to the bathroom when India asks, ‘who else other than Canada thinks we’re out of line?’

Trudeau tempers criticism as allies decline to condemn India over slain Sikh leader

U.S. offers muted support, while U.K. plans to continue trade talks with crucial Asian power

www.theglobeandmail.com

Who do you trust more, Indian media or bought-and-paid-for media? Discuss ...

Australia Says It Has Raised Canada Khalistani Terrorist's Death With India

In its first reaction to the controversy over Canada's allegation that India played a role in the killing of a Khalistani terrorist, Australia has called the reports "concerning" and said it has raised the issue with its "Indian counterparts".

www.ndtv.com

 

[RangerRay]

Something about this stinks. The government’s refusal to confront Beijing in any serious way since they kidnapped two citizens and their influence, interference and intimidation campaign became public knowledge, their gutting of a probe into Indian malfeasance until it was politically convenient to say something, but being geopolitically naive or dumb to think how this complicates our allies’ Asia-Pacific strategies. I mean, it didn’t take a foreign policy expert to foresee that Washington, London and Canberra wouldn’t be rushing to our defence on this. I don’t know enough about the Sikh separatists here to know whether they are a genuine terror threat to India, or just a political one, so I can’t judge whether India’s security concerns about the are legitimate. If the people at the head of our government were smart, I would suggest they are in the tank for Beijing. But I don’t think they are smart. I think they are a dangerous mix of naive and incompetent and are in way over their heads.

 

[OldSolduer]

Hey look over here!!! See India being naughty! Oh those baaaaaad Indians!!!

Distraction at its finest

 

[Good2Golf]

Hey look over here!!! See India being naughty! Oh those baaaaaad Indians!!!

Distraction at its finest

What’s the Chinese word for maskirovka?

 

[QV]

If the people at the head of our government were smart, I would suggest they are in the tank for Beijing. But I don’t think they are smart. I think they are a dangerous mix of naive and incompetent and are in way over their heads.

Naive alone is too innocent of a term for this cohort. Early in Trudeau's terms I'd say arrogantly naive in the least, but now lean towards willful.

 

[RangerRay]

Opinion: Did India assassinate a Canadian citizen?

An assault on Canadian sovereignty and the rule of law that demands a response

www.theglobeandmail.com

If true, Indian agents conducted an extra-judicial and extra-territorial killing of a Canadian citizen in Canada, and that’s not cool and the Indian government needs to be held accountable. But:

A final note: does this prove, as some have claimed, the wisdom of a broader inquiry into foreign interference, beyond China? Only if you think the purpose of an inquiry is to look into foreign interference. It is not: it is to look into the government of Canada’s role in enabling foreign interference. That is, it is to look into things that would not otherwise be looked into.


There has been no evidence of the kind of repeated disregard of intelligence warnings with respect to India that has so marked the current government’s approach to China. Should some emerge, then we can add India to the list.

 

[OldSolduer]

Political assassination is not new

Mossad enters the chat..

 

[Haggis]

I mean, it didn’t take a foreign policy expert to foresee that Washington, London and Canberra wouldn’t be rushing to our defence on this.

There was probably an "OMFG... Trudeau said WHAT?!?!" in those capitols.

I don’t know enough about the Sikh separatists here to know whether they are a genuine terror threat to India, or just a political one, so I can’t judge whether India’s security concerns about the are legitimate.

We may not consider them a genuine threat, the same as India may not consider the Freedom Convoy or SovCits a threat to Canada.

Are Trudeau's Liberals in way over their heads in the international theatre? Maybe not yet. But Trudeau cares not about what other nations think. He cares what his support base thinks and this is playing well for him domestically, for now. He is acting "leaderlike" a role he's not really all that familiar with. Can he continue this and really, really do something? Or is this simply "maskirovka, eh".

 

[Good2Golf]

There was probably an "OMFG... Trudeau said WHAT?!?!" in those capitols.

We may not consider them a genuine threat, the same as India may not consider the Freedom Convoy or SovCits a threat to Canada.

Are Trudeau's Liberals in way over their heads in the international theatre? Maybe not yet. But Trudeau cares not about what other nations think. He cares what his support base thinks and this is playing well for him domestically, for now. He is acting "leaderlike" a role he's not really all that familiar with. Can he continue this and really, really do something? Or is this simply "maskirovka, eh".

 

[GR66]

There was probably an "OMFG... Trudeau said WHAT?!?!" in those capitols.

We may not consider them a genuine threat, the same as India may not consider the Freedom Convoy or SovCits a threat to Canada.

Are Trudeau's Liberals in way over their heads in the international theatre? Maybe not yet. But Trudeau cares not about what other nations think. He cares what his support base thinks and this is playing well for him domestically, for now. He is acting "leaderlike" a role he's not really all that familiar with. Can he continue this and really, really do something? Or is this simply "maskirovka, eh".

The assassination by India (if true of course) tells me two things about India's risk assessment in approving the operation:
1) India doesn't think enough of their relationship with Canada to think the potential fallout from being discovered outweighs the removal of one single political opponent.
2) India doesn't think that Canada's allies (5 Eyes, etc.) feel that Canada is important enough of an ally that they would exert any meaningful punishment on India for the assassination if made public.

Pretty sad statement about how Canada is viewed in the world.

 

[Good2Golf]

Pretty sad but representative statement about how Canada is viewed in the world.

 

[KevinB]

The assassination by India (if true of course) tells me two things about India's risk assessment in approving the operation:
1) India doesn't think enough of their relationship with Canada to think the potential fallout from being discovered outweighs the removal of one single political opponent.
2) India knows that Canada's allies (5 Eyes, etc.) feel that Canada isn’t an important enough of an ally that they would exert any meaningful punishment on India for the assassination if made public.

Pretty sad statement about how Canada is viewed in the world.

FIFY

Honestly the correct response would have been to have JTF-2 whack some equivalent Indian guy in India, while leaving a bottle of maple syrup at the scene.

It’s generally not viewed by anyone to be acceptable to publicly critical of another nations assassinations. One just gets even and sends a message that any further actions will result in exponential responses.